Is it a good career?

[Biggles Flies Undone]

My son is 15 and fairly mid-stream academically. He takes his GCSEs next summer and the question is ‘What next?’. As with most lads of his age, he doesn’t really have a clue.

We’ve done the tour of our local 6th form colleges which are good, but he’s not certain (despite my misgivings) that he wants to continue with his academic studies.

We also took him to Northbrook College at Shoreham Airport where they run aircraft engineer courses and we were both very impressed with the facilities and enthusiasm of the staff. As I understand it, they recommend a 1 year NVQ course and then, if still interested, a further 3 year ‘licensed’ course which I think leads to a JAR-recognised qualification.

Any thoughts or recommendations? The guy that showed us around said that courses run by airlines such as BA and VS were massively over-subscribed and I doubt if my son would get high enough grades with his GCSEs to get to the head of a long queue – and from that I presume he would most likely need to find work in a GA environment.

The big plus I can see is that he would gain a formal qualification and have a ‘portable’ job. The downside would be an end to his ‘formal’ studies, which would narrow his options if he decided aircraft engineering wasn’t for him.

It’s a big decision to make, so any input from the people already in would be very welcome.

Cheers!

[Krystal n chips]

I wouldn't say it was a good career anymore but, despite the fact there can be a significant pay difference between the Airlines and GA, if your son can get into a GA organisation then he may well prosper in time. The thing to remember is not to become "fixated" with the Airlines as a career. There are plenty of other engineering requirements for the many and varied means of aviation that exist.

Despite the fact he would be doing an aircraft engineering course, he should still learn the basics of engineering per se and thus have a reasonable grounding for other avenues if he wishes and is still young enough of course----and if he has any sense--and this from an A & C person----he will get into the Avionics world rather than the mechanical.

I suppose it all depends on what other prospective careers he has / will look at after all, but I don't think he would do too badly in GA / Biz or the Helo world overall.

[Dr Illitout]

I would echo ASFKAP's sentiments. Adding that starting at the bottom will involve years of study and working bad shifts in poor conditions to get decent money. If your lad is desperate to mend aeroplanes he will put up with it. If he is doing it because he can't think of anything better, I would stongly advise against it!
Eaven my love of the job is sorely tested at two in the morning with my arm down a 737 toilet in a leaky glove!
TRY to persuade him to stay at school.

Rgds Dr I.

[Genghis the Engineer]

The reality of modern life is that there are few, if any, reasonably well paid uneducated, unskilled jobs any more - those went out with union powers in the 1980s.

If your lad is not well suited to education, then training (becoming "skilled" - a term which traditionally meant having completed a craft apprenticeship) is the way ahead.

Apprenticeships still exist in many fields, including aircraft engineering - although the competition for them is clearly fierce. Academic qualifications are part of the equation, but more importantly your lad will need to show a real enthusiasm for the area of work - which in aviation means either maintenance, or design/build (one of the most sought after, for example, is at Westland Helicopters - details are usually on their website, another excellent one is with the various MoD establishments supporting whatever activities go on there - try Boscombe Down for example). [This is despite an academically snobbish educational establishment doing it's best to brainwash kids into believing that only the academic route to advancement is worthwhile.]


So, the best advice that I can offer (and I've done both routes - apprenticeship then academic) is that yes, aircraft engineering has got potential to be a great career - but it's not an easy option, and the only people who'll find their way through are those who are enthusiastic enough to really WANT this career. That applies to both routes. So, probably the best you can do for your son right now is to help him find something he really wants to do, and then everything you can to foster that enthusiasm - in whatever area of activity he wants to aim at.


I've got two (step)sons, now 17 and 23. The older is the less academically bright of the two, but was directed - he knew (knows) what he wanted and now has a good degree and is developing a career in his chosen direction. The younger is brighter than his brother and (I'd judge) probably cleverer than me (and I've got a doctorate). He however has failed at every junction to find anything he really wanted to do, as a result scraped poor GCSEs, got thrown out of sixth form college for not working, and looks about to repeat the trick elsewhere - leaving him unemployed and unemployable, to the deep frustration of all around him.

So for my money it's motivation that counts, not academic ability. If he can find it, the Northbrook course (or an apprenticeship) may suit very well, and even if he then decides it's not what he wants to do, may suit him to future career choices better than a degree would.

And if he's not going to do anything specific with them, why on earth should he waste two years doing A-levels?, which are intended as university entrance qualifications anyway. He'd be far better off doing something, anything, that's actually vocational.

(Sorry for the lecture, but as you may guess I've developed strong views on the subject.)

G

[vs69]

Biggles;
Your son wouldnt necessarily need outstanding grades to get an apprenticeship, my GCSE grades were nothing to shout about but I managed to get on one. Having been down the college route and then the apprenticeship I would say that IF he wants to get into aircraft maintenance the apprenticeship is the better route of the two, certainly with respect to getting work experience on live aircraft and being paid to 'learn your trade' is always a bonus.

[Flying Mechanic]

I was at Northbrook from 90-92 and did the Aircraft Maint Course. It was a great way to learn all about Aircraft Maintenance, the college has also good contacts for getting you work experience on Aircraft.i It was a great start to my career and I worked in Engineering until 1999, when got my first flying job. Since then I have flown for a few companies and employers always liked the fact that I had my Engineering background. If your son wants a career in aviation its a great way to start, and then he can decide his path.

Hope that helps.FM

[Blacksheep]

I had two choices all those years ago. Apprenticeship as a Plumber or as an Aircraft Electrician. I made the wrong choice and have had a wildly exciting, infinitely varied, deeply interesting, and poorly rewarded career.

As a plumber I'd have a long ago become my own boss, with apprentices of my own slaving away at the grotty tasks. I'd be fairly well off, with a large detached house, 'His' and 'Hers' Beemers in the double garage, swimming pool next to the tennis court etc. - the sort of lifestyle that in aviation is the exclusive preserve of the two-winged master race - but life would have been one big yawn....

Its up to the lad himself. Really. We parents can, like our own parents, only give advice and try to help. But once that urge to leave school sets in, we can only take the back seat and hope for the best.

Good Luck.

[Biggles Flies Undone]

Very many thanks to all of you for taking the time and trouble to reply.

There is much encouragement to take from all of your replies and also enough of the ‘downside’ to be able to give my son a clear idea of how much effort is required and the potential rewards on offer.

Genghis – that certainly wasn’t a lecture! Your well-reasoned view actually makes me feel much more comfortable about my son’s future should he decide to follow that route

Very much appreciated everybody.

[Fargoo]

Depends what your boy wants from life really.
After all , money isn't everything.
I work for BA and although things have slipped badly in the last 5 or so years I still enjoy my job and take home a decent wage. So long as you turn off the B.S meter when you roll into work and ignore all the latest doom and gloom rumours it can be a terrific job.
We've got a few newly qualified licenced guys and on the whole they are great.
I wouldn't put anyone off it as a career - there are far worse jobs out there!!

Edit - just to add in my opinion the biggest downside of the job and virtually any aviation related job is the unsociable hours , night shifts especially. Does wonders for the social life...

[AVIONIQUE]

NO NO NO NO NO it is all f@8*ed. Your son is 40 years too late to have a long,rewarding and interesting career in aircraft engineering.still in time to be treated like sh1@ underpaid,messed around ,frustrated,dumped and retrained though!

[Jetset41]

Hi BFU,
I've been in the industry for 26 yrs now, and I wouldn't want to go back and change anything in my professional career.

Sure it is a declining profession and to that end, if your son is that interested in aviation, he should be given all incouragement.

My Father did just that, pushed me to get my licenses, and it's been a varied and not a 9 to 5 job.

Northbrook college is one that seems to have a better rep than most.
We have had quite a few of work experience chaps from Northbrook, including Flying Mechanic [Top bloke by the way].

I've had access to sorts of things that others would not normally be able to do or see.

Sure I could have earned more in other areas, but that's not the sole reason for working where I am, I truelly enjoy my chosen career, as do many of us out there.

Final thought,

If he wants stacks on loot, go work in computer, if he wants good job satisfaction and variety, then look our way.


Jetset41

[Flying Mechanic]

Hey Jetset41!Always a pleasure to work with you aswell.
That was the best paid work experience I ever had in my life!
Hows life with you.....hope your all well over there and send my best to all the team. I am still playing in the sandpit.

You get out of this industry what you put in, like any job. If my flying career went belly up tomorrow I would be phoning Jetset41 for\ a job!

[Jetset41]

Flying Mechanic

Hi there mate,
all is well here, all the guys still here as we know it's a good place to work.
Another mate has just gone to Abu Dhabi on frieghters and is loving it.
Might get out that way one day.

Thanks for the kind remarks towards little old me.

Catch you on the flip side one day.

Regards,

Jetset41

[Westaussielame]

My advice would be to try get your son into helicopters if globe trotting and working with interesting organisations appeals.
Down here in Australia helicopter engineers follow their charges into the field and can end up anywhere from the Simpson desert mineral exploration camps to the Antartic , Asia and PNG whilst still being based in a capital city.Money much better than general aviation but still not as good as airlines but work more varied and experienced engineers in short supply.
I have been in the industy 17 years now with the first 7 working for a helicopter operator and the next ten for a major general aviation maint organisation working on light aircraft up to small exec jets and the chopper time was by far the most interesting and ended up seeing a fair chunk of Oz in the process .
I am interested to see that there is an over supply of engineers in the UK as there is a great demand down here with local companies actively recruiting overseas.Whilst the pay in GA is a joke cost of living and life stlye down here is good.
Brendon

[Danny_manchester]

hi

Hi people, i want a degree before i venture into the ATPL stage, i was wondering if a commercial airline would prefer a degree in aeronauticle engeneering/science, or chemistry?

[portsharbourflyer]

Danny,

If you awant advice on studying aero engineering send me a PM.

Ports

[Genghis the Engineer]

There are courses now which offer aeronautical engineering or (rather more lightweight) aeronautical science combined with a PPL.

In principle this should give you a good degree, some valid and transferrable flying experience, and the ability to know which way you want to take your career and how.

Look at...

Brunel
Liverpool
Salford
Sheffield

Of-course none of this is easy or cheap, BUT it may well be the best way to cover your bets at the moment - and almost certainly whichever way you go it'll make you a better pilot or engineer because of the dual training.

A caution however, if you are planning on an airline career as a serious possibility - invest in a JAA Class 1 medical sooner rather than later; even if you let it lapse, at-least you'll know you've passed it. (Incidentally, the four I've linked are serious grown-up degree courses, there are one or two out there which aren't).

G

[Danny_manchester]

lol

Thanks people, btw Ghengis - salford uni is right next to my college, and it doesnt have a good reputation allround.

What do you think about one having a degree in chemistry or pharmacy, with intentions on an airline career?

[Genghis the Engineer]

I think that you need to ask somebody else - this is an engineers forum, and speaking for myself I'm an aeronautical engineer who occasionally test flies light aeroplanes. Airlines are things that keep many colleagues in gainful employment, but for me are generally just public transport. That said, the question is what you want a backup for - if you want to work in the aircraft industry, go for aero-eng, if there's nothing in aviation that interests you apart from flying a 300 seat heavy then (a) in my opinion you're shortsighted, and (b) do something totally vocational - become a personal trainer, accountant, chef - something like that as your backup.

The Salford degree is accredited by the RAeS, but there may well be many other good reasons not to go there (still living with your parents possibly high on the list as well!).

For my money, Liverpool or Brunel would be the plum choices for the combined degree programme in this country, Embry-Riddle if you can afford to study in the USA.

G

[Danny_manchester]

lol

Thank genghis, i really appreciate your time. I looked on the embry rid website and couldntmake top nor tail about how much it costs per year for internationals or what their requirements are for intl. students? anybody help me out?

Yes ghengis, as far away from home as possible , or just the best place in the world.

Btw would you care to elabirate on a comment on your rpevious post?

***if there's nothing in aviation that interests you apart from flying a 300 seat heavy then (a) in my opinion you're shortsighted***

i know its opinion, but would like to ask why?

thanks