The problem of the graduate job market
Moderator
Thread Starter
The problem of the graduate job market
Is this just me?
Various bits of the aerospace industry need, as they always have, competent graduate engineers - working in design offices, analysis, planning, research, and so-on.
However, I see an increasing dichotomy going on here. I can see virtually no employers (including my own) prepared any more to take-on recent graduates and provide structured training schemes that move them from the position of a bewildered but trainable graduate, to a competent Engineer.
In the meantime, these organisation generally NEED staff, and are actively trying to recruit - but they all want people with a certain amount of experience (usually no more and no less) to fit a combination of "min salary" and "max experience" that each recruiter seems to consider optimal. There's a very limited supply of such Engineers, so many posts go unfilled - p***ing of everybody else who still have to get the jobs done.
The result is that although the universities are churning out graduates in mechanical / systems / aerospace engineering, these folks aren't getting jobs - nobody's recruiting fresh graduates, and so there's no route for them to get any experience. As a result they're drifting off to be accountants, schoolteachers, and (worst of all) web developers.
The outcome is a steady reduction in the number of competent Engineers in the aerospace industry - despite an escalating output from the universities.
There is of-course no point at-all in trying to appoint to these positions from within the "licenced" community, since these folks don't have the specific academics to do the graduate type jobs (and there's no easy way for them to get them). In any case, why should they wish to?, there's a similar scarcity of licenced Engineers and Techicians, but because they work on the operational side (and they are therefore absolutely essential to lucrative airline operations) salaries have outstripped those of most graduate engineers anyhow.
So, we have a slow reduction in the number of skilled people in this industry, whilst those remaining become more skilled - but scarcer and therefore more expensive. In the meantime, the industry globally is still expanding and more is demanded of those left.
Sooner or later, something's gotta give. My hope is that it'll be that the industry starts recruiting and training at the bottom again to a much greater extent that at present - but I don't actually see any sign of it.
G
Needed to get it out of my system.
Various bits of the aerospace industry need, as they always have, competent graduate engineers - working in design offices, analysis, planning, research, and so-on.
However, I see an increasing dichotomy going on here. I can see virtually no employers (including my own) prepared any more to take-on recent graduates and provide structured training schemes that move them from the position of a bewildered but trainable graduate, to a competent Engineer.
In the meantime, these organisation generally NEED staff, and are actively trying to recruit - but they all want people with a certain amount of experience (usually no more and no less) to fit a combination of "min salary" and "max experience" that each recruiter seems to consider optimal. There's a very limited supply of such Engineers, so many posts go unfilled - p***ing of everybody else who still have to get the jobs done.
The result is that although the universities are churning out graduates in mechanical / systems / aerospace engineering, these folks aren't getting jobs - nobody's recruiting fresh graduates, and so there's no route for them to get any experience. As a result they're drifting off to be accountants, schoolteachers, and (worst of all) web developers.
The outcome is a steady reduction in the number of competent Engineers in the aerospace industry - despite an escalating output from the universities.
There is of-course no point at-all in trying to appoint to these positions from within the "licenced" community, since these folks don't have the specific academics to do the graduate type jobs (and there's no easy way for them to get them). In any case, why should they wish to?, there's a similar scarcity of licenced Engineers and Techicians, but because they work on the operational side (and they are therefore absolutely essential to lucrative airline operations) salaries have outstripped those of most graduate engineers anyhow.
So, we have a slow reduction in the number of skilled people in this industry, whilst those remaining become more skilled - but scarcer and therefore more expensive. In the meantime, the industry globally is still expanding and more is demanded of those left.
Sooner or later, something's gotta give. My hope is that it'll be that the industry starts recruiting and training at the bottom again to a much greater extent that at present - but I don't actually see any sign of it.
G
Needed to get it out of my system.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Balmullo,Scotland
Posts: 933
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All I can say on this is that it has opened roads into jobs I never thought I would get as a non-graduate,for one example I was working in Airbus Bremen as a maintainability Engineer and the minimum requirement was for an engineering degree knowing they were very unlikely to get a graduate with the necessary experience they put or "equivelent experience" in the job spec and therefore allowing Me in.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Under a Log
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Many companies cut back, some stopped, the graduate training schemes from early 2000, citing wind down in the industry, 9/11 etc. This coupled with the reduction in the Armed Forces training, cut backs at the OEMs such as Rolls Royce and BAe has now left the industry stretched.
With the market upturn we are now experiencing, airlines investing in upgrade work and not just essential maintenance I believe that recruitment for graduates has now started to increase, along with salary offered to reflect the shallow pool in which we now fish.
I just hope it continues against the threat of Bird Flu, Fuel etc
With the market upturn we are now experiencing, airlines investing in upgrade work and not just essential maintenance I believe that recruitment for graduates has now started to increase, along with salary offered to reflect the shallow pool in which we now fish.
I just hope it continues against the threat of Bird Flu, Fuel etc
Cunning Artificer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
Age: 76
Posts: 3,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yet Airbus recently announced that they are opening design offices in India and China because they are unable to hire suitable engineering candidates in Europe. I suspect that rather than an actual shortage of candidates, a different agenda underlies this decision.
Cost.
European graduate engineers, despite their relatively low salaries, are more expensive than their Asian counterparts.
Cost.
European graduate engineers, despite their relatively low salaries, are more expensive than their Asian counterparts.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a soon-to-be graduate engineer of the type you are talking about I am somewhat heartened to see that at least some of the "seasoned" engineers out there seem to be just as exasperated by the graduate job market as us newbies :-)
I have been keeping a good eye on a couple of aerospace job websites the last six months and can honestly say that with the exception of the big rolling recruiters (airbus, RR, BAe, Qinetiq) i can count on one hand the number of job opportunities I have seen that don't require a min. of 5 years experience in a similar field.
It seems that for new graduates who want to stay in aerospace there are very few options outside of going into the big manufacturing & design companies.
I have been keeping a good eye on a couple of aerospace job websites the last six months and can honestly say that with the exception of the big rolling recruiters (airbus, RR, BAe, Qinetiq) i can count on one hand the number of job opportunities I have seen that don't require a min. of 5 years experience in a similar field.
It seems that for new graduates who want to stay in aerospace there are very few options outside of going into the big manufacturing & design companies.
Moderator
Thread Starter
It is frustrating as a senior Gingerbeer, for several reasons...
(1) We were all there once (and who knows, might be again!)
(2) We want the most able people working for and with us, and the best way to do that is take able people out of the educational system, and train them thoroughly. However, the beancounters do seem to fight this!
(3) You meet the people in or coming out of the universities now, get to know and like them, and want them to do well - it's frustrating to see the system agin them.
G
Engineer, seasoned and slowly roasted.
(1) We were all there once (and who knows, might be again!)
(2) We want the most able people working for and with us, and the best way to do that is take able people out of the educational system, and train them thoroughly. However, the beancounters do seem to fight this!
(3) You meet the people in or coming out of the universities now, get to know and like them, and want them to do well - it's frustrating to see the system agin them.
G
Engineer, seasoned and slowly roasted.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Bristol
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with all above- I'm about to graduate in Aeronautical Engineering, and i'm struggling to find an engineering job that appeals- beyond the 'big' aerospace companies there are very few (apparent) graduate openings.
I honestly never thought this would happen, but I'm seriously considering selling out and training to be an accountant- not that I wouldn't rather work in engineering, but as an industry it's simply not doing enough to attract graduates who could get jobs elsewhere with far more attractive terms.
If anyone would like to prove me wrong and give me an interesting engineering job....!
stick
I honestly never thought this would happen, but I'm seriously considering selling out and training to be an accountant- not that I wouldn't rather work in engineering, but as an industry it's simply not doing enough to attract graduates who could get jobs elsewhere with far more attractive terms.
If anyone would like to prove me wrong and give me an interesting engineering job....!
stick
