Bristow/MSF
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Bristow/MSF
Are any Bristow staff getting concerned at the 'closeness' of the Bristow/MSF partnership?
I get the feeling that MSF are seeing the management view more readily than the members they are supposed to represent.
e.g. Loss of location allowance...review of licensed engineer pay following JAR66.
I get the feeling that MSF are seeing the management view more readily than the members they are supposed to represent.
e.g. Loss of location allowance...review of licensed engineer pay following JAR66.
Guest
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Maybe you are right, however would we have got a pay rise without them?
I think colleagues who are not members should join now so we speak as one voice and show those in high places that we will not be walked all over anymore.
After all if we don't like something that MSF proposes we don't have to vote yes, do we?
I think colleagues who are not members should join now so we speak as one voice and show those in high places that we will not be walked all over anymore.
After all if we don't like something that MSF proposes we don't have to vote yes, do we?
Guest
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I take your point about the pay rise.
However, all the management has to do is downgrade any offers to us, before we see them, so as to allow the union to negotiate it up again - everybody happy - especially The Man!
By the way, I am a union member but rapidly becoming very disillusioned. I do not think our take home pay will be moving in a positive direction over the next few years. The cuts will outweigh the increases. I hope I am wrong.
Watch out for The Snake. I think he knows how to run rings around unions.
[This message has been edited by SeeNext (edited 24 November 2000).]
However, all the management has to do is downgrade any offers to us, before we see them, so as to allow the union to negotiate it up again - everybody happy - especially The Man!
By the way, I am a union member but rapidly becoming very disillusioned. I do not think our take home pay will be moving in a positive direction over the next few years. The cuts will outweigh the increases. I hope I am wrong.
Watch out for The Snake. I think he knows how to run rings around unions.
[This message has been edited by SeeNext (edited 24 November 2000).]
Guest
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The trouble with Bristows is they've had to
many private deals, never paying any two people the same. So theres bound to be some losers in the shake out.
I'm prepared to wait and see what is finally put up to the vote.
I think the big crunch will come if we dont get a good pay rise next summer.
many private deals, never paying any two people the same. So theres bound to be some losers in the shake out.
I'm prepared to wait and see what is finally put up to the vote.
I think the big crunch will come if we dont get a good pay rise next summer.
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Private deals and moles are a problem. There are too many people with the idea that Bristow will look after them but the reality will only hit home come the next round of !!!!! cannings.
The select few who of 'signatures' are not likely to include many of the 'workers' but will be made up from the vast selection of chiefs and deputies. That will keep any pay rises nicely 'in house'.
Rotaryx - what will you do if there is no decent pay rise next summer? The union is not going to back ANY form of industrial action. They have already made it perfectly clear, which takes us back to my original point - JUST WHOSE SIDE IS THE UNION ON ANYWAY? IT IS TIME THEY MADE A STAND FOR US.
Any pay rises that do occur will be more than wiped out by loss of location allowance and licence pay.
If you think The Man is going to offer us deals that give us better take home pay then it's time to wake up and smell the coffee!
This business of location allowance and JAR66 negotiations is all about cutting costs and it is The Snake's responsibility to see that it happens. After all, he will not get his nice fat bonus cheque on leaving the company unless he does the job he was taken on for.
For the resolution to the problem we have to look to our lower limbs...make a stand, or take a walk.
The select few who of 'signatures' are not likely to include many of the 'workers' but will be made up from the vast selection of chiefs and deputies. That will keep any pay rises nicely 'in house'.
Rotaryx - what will you do if there is no decent pay rise next summer? The union is not going to back ANY form of industrial action. They have already made it perfectly clear, which takes us back to my original point - JUST WHOSE SIDE IS THE UNION ON ANYWAY? IT IS TIME THEY MADE A STAND FOR US.
Any pay rises that do occur will be more than wiped out by loss of location allowance and licence pay.
If you think The Man is going to offer us deals that give us better take home pay then it's time to wake up and smell the coffee!
This business of location allowance and JAR66 negotiations is all about cutting costs and it is The Snake's responsibility to see that it happens. After all, he will not get his nice fat bonus cheque on leaving the company unless he does the job he was taken on for.
For the resolution to the problem we have to look to our lower limbs...make a stand, or take a walk.
Guest
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SEENEXT If it comes to a fight, I've been there before, I was on the picket at BA in the late seventies. Trouble with unions, everything has to played strickly to the rules these days, its a long process, but eventually they have support the wishes of their members.
Guest
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Interesting to see that Bristows have chosen to be represented by the MSF. Next year theMSF join forces with the AEEU, so any benifits of membership of one particular uinon over the other will be lost. Hope all works out for you guys and girls at Bristow.
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jfd
Bristow has been a non-union company (well, on the engineering side anyway), for so long that I think most people when it came to the crunch and accepted that union representation was necessary, voted for the least militant of the two. The fact that the two unions 'vetted' by the management were ultimately to amalgamate was generally ignored by most voters.
As for the original posting, surely any partnership set up to negotiate terms and conditions has to be 'close' to make it work and of course the 'management' will downgrade their offers before they present them to the union convenors.
Look at it this way. If you go into a market to buy something, you haggle, you try get the 'goods' for the lowest price you can, not for what you can afford. The seller, on the other hand, tries to jack the price as high as it will go. Eventually, you and the seller negotiate a price and agree.
Or am I missing something here?
----------------
If it aint broke.........
PS - I can guess who The Snake is, but who is The Man.
TM
Bristow has been a non-union company (well, on the engineering side anyway), for so long that I think most people when it came to the crunch and accepted that union representation was necessary, voted for the least militant of the two. The fact that the two unions 'vetted' by the management were ultimately to amalgamate was generally ignored by most voters.
As for the original posting, surely any partnership set up to negotiate terms and conditions has to be 'close' to make it work and of course the 'management' will downgrade their offers before they present them to the union convenors.
Look at it this way. If you go into a market to buy something, you haggle, you try get the 'goods' for the lowest price you can, not for what you can afford. The seller, on the other hand, tries to jack the price as high as it will go. Eventually, you and the seller negotiate a price and agree.
Or am I missing something here?
----------------
If it aint broke.........
PS - I can guess who The Snake is, but who is The Man.
TM
Guest
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You are dead right seenext we have to use our legs and either stand up and be counted or walk.
Trouble is there seem to be too many who have been in Bristow so long that it is some sort of reward to be downtrodden and treated badly, they revel in telling us how in the good old days they would work for nothing. You cut them and Bristow runs through them like a stick of rock.
These are the types that need a serious wake up call. We have seen only too recently how the Bristow hireachy and the oil companies don't give a toss about people at the workface all they are interested in is lining the pockets of the shareholders.
All we see is cut after cut with fewer people being expected to produce the same amount of work. The trouble is the old guard still do it by hook or by crook to keep everything going. If the bubble bursts then who will carry the can, not management thats for sure!!
So all you "Company Men" wake up and join the union, if you are in already then stand up and be counted because the only people who are going to look after engineers is the engineers themselves, if you think Bristow managers will then you are seriously out of touch!!!
[This message has been edited by pitchrod (edited 27 November 2000).]
Trouble is there seem to be too many who have been in Bristow so long that it is some sort of reward to be downtrodden and treated badly, they revel in telling us how in the good old days they would work for nothing. You cut them and Bristow runs through them like a stick of rock.
These are the types that need a serious wake up call. We have seen only too recently how the Bristow hireachy and the oil companies don't give a toss about people at the workface all they are interested in is lining the pockets of the shareholders.
All we see is cut after cut with fewer people being expected to produce the same amount of work. The trouble is the old guard still do it by hook or by crook to keep everything going. If the bubble bursts then who will carry the can, not management thats for sure!!
So all you "Company Men" wake up and join the union, if you are in already then stand up and be counted because the only people who are going to look after engineers is the engineers themselves, if you think Bristow managers will then you are seriously out of touch!!!
[This message has been edited by pitchrod (edited 27 November 2000).]
Guest
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Taff Missed - "The Man" = Top end management at Bristow and OLOG.
I am pleased that my initial posting has started a good flow of conversation. A lot of good points and opinions have been expressed and I hope there are a lot more to come. This is not the end.
The problem/advantage of this site is that it is anonymous. We can more or less say what we want - within reason, but then we slink away without telling the union or The Man.
What needs to be done now is for anyone who has contributed or has read this flow, to go and poke their respective union rep in the chest and tell them that you are not happy at the prospect of any loss on take home pay and that the union has to fight to the max to retain what is rightly ours.
I get the feeling that at the moment we just get the bad news presented to us by our reps and we sit there in the crew room and look miserable without bothering to get vocal and angry.
We pay our £9 a month to the union for a reason. If we do not get value for money then the money will stop. The union must realise this. They promised us a lot before we signed up. Now that we have signed up it is time to deliver. NO EXCUSES.
Tell your rep and your union area rep about this site. It may help them to get some idea of the strength of feeling.
I have heard someone say that the company cannot touch our basic pay but they can do what they want with our allowances. Now there's a surprise.
The fact that a big chunk of our take home pay is made up of allowances makes us pretty susceptible to a massive pay cut.
I am pleased that my initial posting has started a good flow of conversation. A lot of good points and opinions have been expressed and I hope there are a lot more to come. This is not the end.
The problem/advantage of this site is that it is anonymous. We can more or less say what we want - within reason, but then we slink away without telling the union or The Man.
What needs to be done now is for anyone who has contributed or has read this flow, to go and poke their respective union rep in the chest and tell them that you are not happy at the prospect of any loss on take home pay and that the union has to fight to the max to retain what is rightly ours.
I get the feeling that at the moment we just get the bad news presented to us by our reps and we sit there in the crew room and look miserable without bothering to get vocal and angry.
We pay our £9 a month to the union for a reason. If we do not get value for money then the money will stop. The union must realise this. They promised us a lot before we signed up. Now that we have signed up it is time to deliver. NO EXCUSES.
Tell your rep and your union area rep about this site. It may help them to get some idea of the strength of feeling.
I have heard someone say that the company cannot touch our basic pay but they can do what they want with our allowances. Now there's a surprise.
The fact that a big chunk of our take home pay is made up of allowances makes us pretty susceptible to a massive pay cut.
