A little technical fun with fictional planes....
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A little technical fun with fictional planes....
A question for all ye experts out there.
This is a fictional aircraft from a little known Disney cartoon series called "Talespin" <a href="http://www.talespinsourcepage.i8.com" target="_blank">(click here to see the site I got this from. Fills you in on the story as well. Basically you get Baloo from Jungle book, make him a Freight Dog in a twin prop amphibian, and viola!)</a> This is Baloo's plane basically. . .Now then, here's the question: I can see one glaringly obvious problem with the design of this aircraft. Can you spot it? If you come up with others, then good for you!
1. Headlights. .2. Mooring Hook. .3. Emergency Airbrake. .4. Superflight 100 Engines. .5. Air Intake Scoop. .6. Primary Refueling Ports. .7. Secondary Refueling Ports. .8. Flight Controls. .9. Pilot's Seat. .10. Copilot's Seat 11. Passenger Seats (3). .12. Double Bunk Bed. .13. Locker. .14. Tow Rope Spool. .15. Main Cargo Door. .16. Cargo Door Release. .17. Radio. .18. First Aid Kit (on wall). .19. System Status Panel. .20. Windshield (with wipers). .21. Manual Cargo Door Open/Close. .22. Electrical Systems. .23. Overhead Intercom Speaker. .24. Nose Hatch. .25. Floor Hatch. .26. Ceiling Hatch (above). .27. Hatch to Water Tanks. .28. Engine Access Panels. .29. Bulkhead Door. .30. Landing Gear (3)
Mind you, if the "problem" wa fixed, this'd make a good replacement for DC-3s the world over....
This is a fictional aircraft from a little known Disney cartoon series called "Talespin" <a href="http://www.talespinsourcepage.i8.com" target="_blank">(click here to see the site I got this from. Fills you in on the story as well. Basically you get Baloo from Jungle book, make him a Freight Dog in a twin prop amphibian, and viola!)</a> This is Baloo's plane basically. . .Now then, here's the question: I can see one glaringly obvious problem with the design of this aircraft. Can you spot it? If you come up with others, then good for you!
1. Headlights. .2. Mooring Hook. .3. Emergency Airbrake. .4. Superflight 100 Engines. .5. Air Intake Scoop. .6. Primary Refueling Ports. .7. Secondary Refueling Ports. .8. Flight Controls. .9. Pilot's Seat. .10. Copilot's Seat 11. Passenger Seats (3). .12. Double Bunk Bed. .13. Locker. .14. Tow Rope Spool. .15. Main Cargo Door. .16. Cargo Door Release. .17. Radio. .18. First Aid Kit (on wall). .19. System Status Panel. .20. Windshield (with wipers). .21. Manual Cargo Door Open/Close. .22. Electrical Systems. .23. Overhead Intercom Speaker. .24. Nose Hatch. .25. Floor Hatch. .26. Ceiling Hatch (above). .27. Hatch to Water Tanks. .28. Engine Access Panels. .29. Bulkhead Door. .30. Landing Gear (3)
Mind you, if the "problem" wa fixed, this'd make a good replacement for DC-3s the world over....
Iconoclast
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To: Nose Indiana Ground
. .Several obvious design deficiencies are:
1) Minimal wetted fuselage area. Fuselage profile is such that there would be minimal longitudinal stability during water work.. .2) With minimal wetted fuselage area the floats would dig in on a water landing and rip off the wing. Floats are for stability and not to absorb hydrodynamic loads during a water landing.. .3) Carburetor air inlet is below the engine and during water operations water would be ingested directly into the engines.. .4) Props would dig into water during water operations amd most likely be ripped off of the engine.
Anybody else care to contribute.
. .Several obvious design deficiencies are:
1) Minimal wetted fuselage area. Fuselage profile is such that there would be minimal longitudinal stability during water work.. .2) With minimal wetted fuselage area the floats would dig in on a water landing and rip off the wing. Floats are for stability and not to absorb hydrodynamic loads during a water landing.. .3) Carburetor air inlet is below the engine and during water operations water would be ingested directly into the engines.. .4) Props would dig into water during water operations amd most likely be ripped off of the engine.
Anybody else care to contribute.
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Talking about technical details, heres the spec for the engines....
the Sea Duck’s engines contained a special turbocharger device so top-secret, that even Baloo hesitated to use it except in extreme circumstances. Called the "overdrive", this custom-built module was capable of accelerating the Duck's engines to many times normal speed. Details are sketchy, but the Sea Duck may have been able to approach the sound barrier with the overdrive activated. However, use of the device caused intense heat to build up in the engines, the reason why Baloo only used the overdrive sparingly. Today, the overdrive no longer exists, having burned out when Baloo raced to Cape Suzette to save Kit (see "Plunder & Lightning," Part 4).
THE OVERDRIVE SYSTEM . . Built by Baloo and Wildcat, the overdrive module for the Sea Duck was one of the more astounding feats of engine technology. While specific technical details are unknown (and, it seems, undocumented), some general information is known. Incorporated into the main cylinder section of the engine is a modified turbocharger, connected to the fuel system via a special line. A button inside the cockpit activates a separate ignition system within the overdrive mechanism. Propellant accelerators increase the fuel flow to the engines, while air intake manifolds emerge from the top of the engine cowling, taking in extra air to cool the rapidly-heating inner assembly.
Overdrives are difficult to manufacture, and cannot simply be mass-produced -- each individual aircraft requires its own unique, hand-crafted drive unit. Plus, the complexity of the overdrive limits proper maintenance to only highly-skilled mechanics and technicians.
the Sea Duck’s engines contained a special turbocharger device so top-secret, that even Baloo hesitated to use it except in extreme circumstances. Called the "overdrive", this custom-built module was capable of accelerating the Duck's engines to many times normal speed. Details are sketchy, but the Sea Duck may have been able to approach the sound barrier with the overdrive activated. However, use of the device caused intense heat to build up in the engines, the reason why Baloo only used the overdrive sparingly. Today, the overdrive no longer exists, having burned out when Baloo raced to Cape Suzette to save Kit (see "Plunder & Lightning," Part 4).
THE OVERDRIVE SYSTEM . . Built by Baloo and Wildcat, the overdrive module for the Sea Duck was one of the more astounding feats of engine technology. While specific technical details are unknown (and, it seems, undocumented), some general information is known. Incorporated into the main cylinder section of the engine is a modified turbocharger, connected to the fuel system via a special line. A button inside the cockpit activates a separate ignition system within the overdrive mechanism. Propellant accelerators increase the fuel flow to the engines, while air intake manifolds emerge from the top of the engine cowling, taking in extra air to cool the rapidly-heating inner assembly.
Overdrives are difficult to manufacture, and cannot simply be mass-produced -- each individual aircraft requires its own unique, hand-crafted drive unit. Plus, the complexity of the overdrive limits proper maintenance to only highly-skilled mechanics and technicians.
Iconoclast
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To: Genghis The Engineer
Assuming there were a step on the underside of the hull the aircraft would never get off the water. The floats will be under water when the aircraft is on the water. Any forward movement will cause the floats to “snow-plow” and dig into the water even further. The floats do not have sufficient buoyancy to keep the fuselage higher in the water. Sucking in gallons of water into the carburetor and the props digging into the water not withstanding the aircraft could not rise out of the water.
[ 28 February 2002: Message edited by: Lu Zuckerman ]</p>
Assuming there were a step on the underside of the hull the aircraft would never get off the water. The floats will be under water when the aircraft is on the water. Any forward movement will cause the floats to “snow-plow” and dig into the water even further. The floats do not have sufficient buoyancy to keep the fuselage higher in the water. Sucking in gallons of water into the carburetor and the props digging into the water not withstanding the aircraft could not rise out of the water.
[ 28 February 2002: Message edited by: Lu Zuckerman ]</p>
Iconoclast
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To: A4 Heliworker
By using the same artistic license he employed in getting a little elephant to fly. He stuck a lucky feather under the pilots seat.
By using the same artistic license he employed in getting a little elephant to fly. He stuck a lucky feather under the pilots seat.
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I was talking about the step arrangement myself, but Centre of Gravity problems....
Hmmm, alright, here's a follow-up. If you were handed this technical drawing and told "Alright, you think this plane's wrong, then YOU re-do it!". .What would you change on it? Try to keep the asthetics if you can, but that's not too important....
Personally, maybe I'd put the step in, bring the fuselage back a little more, and make it a little taller for propwash. Or just forget the whole water thing, smooth out the boat shapes and reposition the gear, she'd give a c-123 a run for its money (but hey, what do I know? I'm no engineer....).
. .Isn't it great what you can dig up on the Internet?
Hmmm, alright, here's a follow-up. If you were handed this technical drawing and told "Alright, you think this plane's wrong, then YOU re-do it!". .What would you change on it? Try to keep the asthetics if you can, but that's not too important....
Personally, maybe I'd put the step in, bring the fuselage back a little more, and make it a little taller for propwash. Or just forget the whole water thing, smooth out the boat shapes and reposition the gear, she'd give a c-123 a run for its money (but hey, what do I know? I'm no engineer....).
. .Isn't it great what you can dig up on the Internet?
I think this design is a failed rip-off of the Sikorsky S-38! <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
<a href="http://www.sikorskyarchives.com/s-38.html" target="_blank">Sikorsky S-38</a>
And, <a href="http://www.scjcarnauba.com/plane.htm" target="_blank">here's one we prepared earlier!</a> <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
I wouldn't recommend attemting to operate your C-123 as an amphib (at least more tan one landing anyway)! <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
<a href="http://www.sikorskyarchives.com/s-38.html" target="_blank">Sikorsky S-38</a>
And, <a href="http://www.scjcarnauba.com/plane.htm" target="_blank">here's one we prepared earlier!</a> <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
I wouldn't recommend attemting to operate your C-123 as an amphib (at least more tan one landing anyway)! <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
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At last!, my login is approved and I can add my 2p.. .. .There is a much more fundamental problem than those mentioned earlier. . .. .Trim.. .. .For the A/C to be in trim, the C of G must co-incide with the C of L. Normally, the C of L will be somewhere over the wing and in this design the wing is apparently well aft of the C of G.. .. .I see three possibilities:. .. .1) the tail plane provides a great deal of aerodynamic downforce to move the C of L forward and restore trim.. .. .2) the tail is made of some very heavy material to move the C of G aft and restore trim.. .. .3) The entire cabin section is lighter-than-air, being made of the rare element unobtanium. This solution allows very economocal operating costs at the penalty of high initial cost, unobtanium being both expensive to procure and costly to work due to it's tendency to float away in the breeze.. .. .For solution 1) the A/C will suffer high induced drag and be very uneconomical to fly.. .. .For solutions 2) and 3) the C of G will be so far aft that the A/C will, at best, sit extremely nose high on the water (vertically I suspect). Note also that the main wheels are located at about the natural point for the the C of L, and it is therefore also likely that this solution (heavy tail) will be in danger of lifting the nose wheel when operating on land. This solution (even if it were feasible) will of course also make the A/C uneconomical to operate due to the excess weight carried for trimming.. .. .All solutions will render the A/C very payload sensitive, since all of the payload will be placed forward of the C of L, unless you postulate that. like unobtanium, cartoon characters and cartoon cargo also have zero or negative weight. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
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1. Raise the wings on a fuselage-mounted pylon to increase prop/water clearance, (for a Catalina type appearance). This will also give the tailplane more clearance.. .2. Item 7 on the drawing is listed as a secondary refuelling point. This may be part of the solution to the C of G problem. The rear stabiliser and tail booms must have fuel cells already installed for ballast purposes.. .3. To correct for the loss of balance once the fuel is used, the wing pylon could be mounted onto the fuselage using a fore and aft ‘rail’ or sliding track. The wing and tail can then be moved forwards or rearwards by a worm drive actuator to keep the A/C within C of G limits.. .4. The problem of flight controls, engine controls, fuel selectors etc travelling between the fuselage and wing section could be solved by using “Fly by wire technology”. .5. To get the aircraft off the water or ground following these modifications will be simply to install a couple of engines out of a Concorde!. .. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> Howzat?
