4 on 4 off
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HiSpeed Tape, Do all you can to resist 7on 3off... I've worked it and it is a killer. By day 5 you have had enough, interest wains and so by consequence does flight safety. It takes all your days off to recover as well. I now work 2 earlies / 2 lates, 4 off, it is by far the best I have worked. Yes it can be tiring but not as bad as a 7day shift by a long way. As a side line seems to be developing, I get £1750 for this shift, any comparisons welcome !
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Yo SnapOff how you doing? It's starting to look as though its not just our pay that is being left behind, the comparisons for shift allowance are interesting!
As you say the days of 7on/3off 7on/4off are in the past now, even my stint on nights was better than that.
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"please report further"
As you say the days of 7on/3off 7on/4off are in the past now, even my stint on nights was better than that.
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"please report further"
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We cover all weekends and public holidays, however many weekend days in the month is how many days we get off, normally end up doing something like 6 on 2 or 3 off, 8hr days. Cover from 5am to around 6pm with an early and a late shift. How much do we get? Absolutely nothing, zero, nought, **** all.
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Although this thread seems to have erred from the original dicussion of what is a good shift, it's a good one nonetheless. With regard to who get's what it all depends on the rest of the package.
Spannersatcx gets no shift pay but they get a goodish basic. Hispeedtape gets a bucket load of shift pay but from my experience with his employer basic is total poo. Penndoff and me get not much shift pay, a tad below average basic pay but it only costs me £700 for a fortnight in BGI for a family of 5 all in. Other places get loads of approval pay, some get 1000's, some like where I used to work get £10 per month per A/C but only if one flew into your station that month, if you didn't get a Classic that month, sorry no tenner. It's all swings and whatsits. Of course we should all earn more but who outside a/c engineering gives a toss??
Anyway 4days on 4 off, 4 nights on 4 off is the best.
Spannersatcx gets no shift pay but they get a goodish basic. Hispeedtape gets a bucket load of shift pay but from my experience with his employer basic is total poo. Penndoff and me get not much shift pay, a tad below average basic pay but it only costs me £700 for a fortnight in BGI for a family of 5 all in. Other places get loads of approval pay, some get 1000's, some like where I used to work get £10 per month per A/C but only if one flew into your station that month, if you didn't get a Classic that month, sorry no tenner. It's all swings and whatsits. Of course we should all earn more but who outside a/c engineering gives a toss??
Anyway 4days on 4 off, 4 nights on 4 off is the best.
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shift rates etc
Seems like most of u blokes work in the UK,hence the pay in pounds.Anyway,I work in Australia for Qantas, on the 2days 2 nights,4 off and to me it is the best shift around that I know of.Our shift penalties are averaged over a week and equate to about 43% of base pay.Not meaning to sound picky,but at least you blokes over in Europe have more than 2 airlines with which to take your liscences to. IE ,over here we only have Qantas and Virgin blue.Qantas only ever offer 3% as an annual increase in base pay, each time there is an enterprise bargaining agreement period come due.Or you can work for Virgin blue and get worked to the bone. On roughly $110k a year flat, with my shifts,but beeats the hell out of pumping the o/t all the time.
Wanty,
For what it's worth BA gave 2.5% last year and 3.2% this year.
Next year will be equivalent to RPI.
Shift pay increases are also RPI trackers.
4n, 4off is currently paying about £100/week.
What is the RPI in OZ?
Back to the topic.
2d, 2n 4off. Best shift I have ever done when compelled to work a night shift.
4d, 4off best ever.
Qantas only ever offer 3%
Next year will be equivalent to RPI.
Shift pay increases are also RPI trackers.
4n, 4off is currently paying about £100/week.
What is the RPI in OZ?
Back to the topic.
2d, 2n 4off. Best shift I have ever done when compelled to work a night shift.
4d, 4off best ever.
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rpi???
Gday Turan,not sure what u mean by RPI.Suspect it is your rate of inflation.Is this correct?If so,it is about 4-5% per annum.With the measly 3% Qantas offers,after tax(49%),all we end up with is a bull**** 1.5% which is crap.
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Its the long term health effects that must be considered. These only appear after many years of shift working and are the result of disturbed circadian rythms. Medical research tells us that shift workers have increased risks of high blood pressure, heart disease, stroke, digestive disorders and kidney failure. These are thought to be related to stress, induced by interruption of the normal circadian rythm.
12 hour work shifts cause the greatest disruption and the popular 4 on/4 off shift is based on the 12 hour shift. Lower risk is associated with 8 hour shifts - the three shift rotation that used to be popular in the heavy engineering production industries. Its the associated daily stand down of 16 hours that is the key to stress reduction. I don't see many of the 6 to 2/ 2 to 10/ 10 to 6 shifts being used in aviation these days, though.
By all means, vote for the 4 days on/4 days off if you like the 4 days off so much, but do remember that the ill health won't kick in until you are in your fifties. There's a price to pay for everything. In my own case the bypass surgery only cost me eight years shift pay in cash so I suppose I'm in profit, but I don't know the cash value of any years still to be knocked off my life.
12 hour work shifts cause the greatest disruption and the popular 4 on/4 off shift is based on the 12 hour shift. Lower risk is associated with 8 hour shifts - the three shift rotation that used to be popular in the heavy engineering production industries. Its the associated daily stand down of 16 hours that is the key to stress reduction. I don't see many of the 6 to 2/ 2 to 10/ 10 to 6 shifts being used in aviation these days, though.
By all means, vote for the 4 days on/4 days off if you like the 4 days off so much, but do remember that the ill health won't kick in until you are in your fifties. There's a price to pay for everything. In my own case the bypass surgery only cost me eight years shift pay in cash so I suppose I'm in profit, but I don't know the cash value of any years still to be knocked off my life.
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Anybody ever try a 3on, 2off, 2on, 3off, 2on, 2off shift? It's 12 hour shifts and we were doing two weeks days and two weeks nights, getting every second weekend with Friday, Saturday and Sunday off. Not a bad shift, some people seem to enjoy it.
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G'day All,
Blacksheep has raised some good points. The sciences tell us that the long term effects of shift work are only now coming to light, that is the impact on health in the latter years. So far, the latest thinking on what is the best shift pattern for the worker is the 2E's + 2N's then off because it has the least interruption on the circadian rhythms.
It may also impact the wallet and produce less shift allowance (if you're eligible), which is the main reason why one works shift work. Of course the choice of shifts is outside our control as workers, that choice belongs to the employer and is most certainly decided by the needs of the operation and the cost to supply the resources to support the operation. Long term health effects and fatigue don't enter the equation.
And to answer the question, my idea of a perfect shift pattern is shifting from the bar to the pool and eventually shifting back to the bar (to watch the footy) after I've locked the toobox. Good to chat with you - Have a good one.
Blacksheep has raised some good points. The sciences tell us that the long term effects of shift work are only now coming to light, that is the impact on health in the latter years. So far, the latest thinking on what is the best shift pattern for the worker is the 2E's + 2N's then off because it has the least interruption on the circadian rhythms.
It may also impact the wallet and produce less shift allowance (if you're eligible), which is the main reason why one works shift work. Of course the choice of shifts is outside our control as workers, that choice belongs to the employer and is most certainly decided by the needs of the operation and the cost to supply the resources to support the operation. Long term health effects and fatigue don't enter the equation.
And to answer the question, my idea of a perfect shift pattern is shifting from the bar to the pool and eventually shifting back to the bar (to watch the footy) after I've locked the toobox. Good to chat with you - Have a good one.
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8 on 6 off permie nights sounds illegal to me, as per the working time directive
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Have worked most shift patterns out there at some time or other with 5 night (sunday - thurs) being the worst, closely followed by 7 on 4 off, 7 on 3 off. Then there are the operators who have no pattern only a roster which can be O.K one week and dreadfull for two or three. 4 on 4 off almost as knackering as the 7s pattern but the best I have worked is at present 4 on 3 off mon to thurs every week (rotating earlies and lates 06.30-16.30 and 11.30-21.30) we also get £2500 ish shift pay for a completelt sociable shift !! long may it continue.
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Currently working 4/4 days/nights. 12 Hour days 10 hour nights, and feed up with the nights, lack of weekends and lack of sleep, been doing it for 3 and a bit years.We get £3250 in shift allowance, this has risen from an initial £2000 when we first started. Had the chance a couple of years ago to do the 2/2/4 system that a lot of you do and turned it down, a decision I am now beginning to regret.
Time off is great, moneys not bad, just wish I could sleep properly after every shift, some days like today a good uninterupted 7 hours, other days a very rough 5.Still we have to pay the bills
Time off is great, moneys not bad, just wish I could sleep properly after every shift, some days like today a good uninterupted 7 hours, other days a very rough 5.Still we have to pay the bills
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Air NZ AKL has a 6days on, 3days off shift. You rotate round start times of 0600, 1100, 0630, 1400, 0700, 1500 then back to 0600 starts. Biggest problem was not being able to find your car in the carpark at the end of each shift.
After 7 years of lobbying management now have allowed a tempory trial shift of something like 2on,3off, 3on, 2off.
I'm still looking for my ideal shift of 1on, 6off.
After 7 years of lobbying management now have allowed a tempory trial shift of something like 2on,3off, 3on, 2off.
I'm still looking for my ideal shift of 1on, 6off.
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Quite a few of you seem to rate the 4 on 4 off shift. The trouble with that shift is that you do work several weekend days on the trot when you work it.
You might be better off if you used the 12 hour '6 - 4 - 4' shift. 6 nights, 4 off, 4 days, 6 off, 4 nights, 4 off, 6 days, 4 off, 4 nights, 6 off, 4 days, 4 off, 6 nights ...etc. This pattern is based around a 28 day cycle, and you only work 14 days in 28, and you get two free weekends a month.
Anybody tried that?
You might be better off if you used the 12 hour '6 - 4 - 4' shift. 6 nights, 4 off, 4 days, 6 off, 4 nights, 4 off, 6 days, 4 off, 4 nights, 6 off, 4 days, 4 off, 6 nights ...etc. This pattern is based around a 28 day cycle, and you only work 14 days in 28, and you get two free weekends a month.
Anybody tried that?
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I've worked it at the same place as you, personally I found the 6 set really hard going, days worse than nights infact, hated getting up at 5ish to be in for 6, with the nights your body settled into a better routine as you progressed through the shift, but it's not fair on your families, especially at weekends.
The plus side is 2 weekends off per month and the 6 off is great. Bond Air services currently do 6/4/4/6 but with out nights, great shift pattern
I've worked it at the same place as you, personally I found the 6 set really hard going, days worse than nights infact, hated getting up at 5ish to be in for 6, with the nights your body settled into a better routine as you progressed through the shift, but it's not fair on your families, especially at weekends.
The plus side is 2 weekends off per month and the 6 off is great. Bond Air services currently do 6/4/4/6 but with out nights, great shift pattern