Early Retirement
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Too true, it was a standing joke at Bond in the mid eighties that no engineer was going to live long enough to collect their pension.
The list of those who have is shorter than those who haven't. Out of interest the Air Force used to use age 50 as a life expectancy
point for pension calculations.
The list of those who have is shorter than those who haven't. Out of interest the Air Force used to use age 50 as a life expectancy
point for pension calculations.
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Having given this some considerable thought,I dont think I can remember anyone making it to retirement age, the majority have gone at 60 or earlier for one reason or another. Maybe another question should be, Has anyone within the Engineering division ever made it to 65???
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Sewr rat; I was once asked by a QA manager why was it that all maint incidents seemed to happen to our 'better guys'. The answer is simple, they are the only people actually doing something, therefore if something goes wrong it will be them in the firing line. The same goes for 'promotion'. It is the good guys who are seen to do a good job that get 'promoted'.
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Having given this thread a few days to run, I notice there are no comments about anyone retiring early due to ill health. Can I assume that Engineers dont make it anywhere near to retirement, early or normal. Do we all look for alternative employment as age creeps up on us. Interesting to know if anyone who contributes here is over 60. I'll start the ball rolling to find the most senior Engineer ( agewise ) I'm 50. Beat that if you can
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Mr. Invisible, made it to 53 so far.
Stress induced myocardial infarction 9 years ago. In our lot, over the last ten years we've lost one aged 49 and another at 60+ to heart attacks. Two more to cancer in their early fifties. (One poor chap went at 42 to kidney failure and some more in car accidents but I reckon that's nothing to do with the job.) We also have two engineers in their mid-fifties recuperating from coronary by-pass surgery at the moment and four or five others who had by-pass surgery after they left but before they were 60. Not a lot altogether, but we don't have that many engineers either! Works out that about 25% get something wicked before they are 60. I blame the poor health of engineers on long hours of shift work in hard conditions. In my own case, several years of permanent nightshift, driving a taxi when off-shift to try and make ends meet. 80-90 hours a week (total) wasn't unusual when I was younger and healthier. I suspect that my work record isn't unusual...
Don't have a pension scheme, company or otherwise as I don't expect to live long enough to draw one. Had a lot of fun though, so maybe its been worth it
Years ago in Birdseed Airways we used to monitor the obituary pages in BA News. The youngest to go on average were the engineers with the pilots not too far behind (permanent jet-lag?) However, pilots get to retire early so at least they get a few years in the pasture. The best jobs for longevity were Technical Records, Technical Library and the Compass Swing Section! They generally lasted well over 80 years. There's a clue there somewhere.
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Through difficulties to the cinema
Stress induced myocardial infarction 9 years ago. In our lot, over the last ten years we've lost one aged 49 and another at 60+ to heart attacks. Two more to cancer in their early fifties. (One poor chap went at 42 to kidney failure and some more in car accidents but I reckon that's nothing to do with the job.) We also have two engineers in their mid-fifties recuperating from coronary by-pass surgery at the moment and four or five others who had by-pass surgery after they left but before they were 60. Not a lot altogether, but we don't have that many engineers either! Works out that about 25% get something wicked before they are 60. I blame the poor health of engineers on long hours of shift work in hard conditions. In my own case, several years of permanent nightshift, driving a taxi when off-shift to try and make ends meet. 80-90 hours a week (total) wasn't unusual when I was younger and healthier. I suspect that my work record isn't unusual...
Don't have a pension scheme, company or otherwise as I don't expect to live long enough to draw one. Had a lot of fun though, so maybe its been worth it
Years ago in Birdseed Airways we used to monitor the obituary pages in BA News. The youngest to go on average were the engineers with the pilots not too far behind (permanent jet-lag?) However, pilots get to retire early so at least they get a few years in the pasture. The best jobs for longevity were Technical Records, Technical Library and the Compass Swing Section! They generally lasted well over 80 years. There's a clue there somewhere.
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Through difficulties to the cinema
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Blacksheep,
Your reply is quite an eye opener. When looking back over the years, add the number of staff that have had health problems associated with the working conditions, shift patterns, etc. It is not surprising only a few make it to 65.
My only advise to anyone coming into the business is to take out a pension plan asap.
Your reply is quite an eye opener. When looking back over the years, add the number of staff that have had health problems associated with the working conditions, shift patterns, etc. It is not surprising only a few make it to 65.
My only advise to anyone coming into the business is to take out a pension plan asap.
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I have given this thread some thought. In our mob we have 3 retiring this year at 65; one office guy, one team leader and one bloke on the hangar floor. In the 11 years that I have been with the company, I have seen quite a few retire. Some of those have departed prematurely while others seem to go on for ever. I can make no direct connection regarding how long one can expect to live after years of crawling round fuel tanks, handling PRC, Skydrol, JC3 (Yack**** to you and me), jetfuel, engine oil and toilet system maintenance, even with health and safety regulations. It seems to me that there may be other factors such as lifestyle that may also have a great effect on how long one can expect to live after retireing. So keep healthy, work out or swim three times a week and keep to a good diet. Oh I forgot, as engineers we don't get the time to exercise and cannot afford the luxury of a properly digested meal during work time, or to buy nice, low fat high fiber foods. Guess we are all doomed.
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I had an aircraft painter who was medically retired after being on compo for 12 months. He had damaged his shoulderin a fall. Sad situation but it was painfully obvious he was never going to come back to work. He turned down a desk job. He was about 56 I think.
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Ah PILLOW, but why? Did they perhaps, work beyond retirement because they couldn't afford to retire?
The question here concerns the apparant tendency for engineers to either not make it to retirement or die soon after retiring. There seems to be definite evidence that engineers, (and others too!) tend to have shorter than average lives. Personally, I think that the root causes are disturbed circadian rythyms induced by bad shift systems combined with demanding tasks completed against tight deadlines. The stress level in our job is very high but the effects are not immediately apparent. As young men and women we adopt a tough "we can take anything they throw at us" attitude. The damage doesn't show until we get older. By then it is too late. Pilots, especially on long haul, also have to cope with disturbed circadian rhythms but they have the advantage of mandatory rest periods and earlier retirement. Although they also appear to suffer shorter than average lives, at least they get to enjoy a proper retirement before they check out permanently.
The people who have the greatest longevity are those in low stress occupations. Both my grandmothers lived well into their 90s despite having worked up to 14 hours a day "in service" as they called it. Whether they owed their longevity to low stress and regular (if long) hours or continuous medium levels of physical activity would need scientific investigation. On the other hand, both my grandfathers (their husbands, I'm legit!) worked in engineering. One died in his sixties without making it to his pension, the other died aged 82 but after twenty years of poor quality life suffering from chronic bronchitis and emphysema. The least we can do is demand investigations to find out if our jobs include risk factors that tend to shorten our lives.
If investigations show that 24 hour shifts and tight deadlines are life threatening experiences then we may move on to demand action to correct the situation. We are told that closing factories (or airports or hangars) at night is not possible. Work MUST go on round the clock, against the clock, non-stop. Shutting down overnight would cost too much. Costly, yes. But to whom?
What price are WE paying today and how long must we go on paying it? We don't send children up chimneys any more, nor do we deliberately expose workers to mercury or phophorous. But it only stopped when the dangers were identified and pressure was brought to bear for parliament to legislate. It is astonishing to realise that it was only legal intervention that lead to corrective action, otherwise people would still be dying from "Phossy Jaw" and the like.
Are we dying prematurely in the interests of cheap air travel for the masses? Maybe its time we found out...
**********************************
Through difficulties to the cinema
The question here concerns the apparant tendency for engineers to either not make it to retirement or die soon after retiring. There seems to be definite evidence that engineers, (and others too!) tend to have shorter than average lives. Personally, I think that the root causes are disturbed circadian rythyms induced by bad shift systems combined with demanding tasks completed against tight deadlines. The stress level in our job is very high but the effects are not immediately apparent. As young men and women we adopt a tough "we can take anything they throw at us" attitude. The damage doesn't show until we get older. By then it is too late. Pilots, especially on long haul, also have to cope with disturbed circadian rhythms but they have the advantage of mandatory rest periods and earlier retirement. Although they also appear to suffer shorter than average lives, at least they get to enjoy a proper retirement before they check out permanently.
The people who have the greatest longevity are those in low stress occupations. Both my grandmothers lived well into their 90s despite having worked up to 14 hours a day "in service" as they called it. Whether they owed their longevity to low stress and regular (if long) hours or continuous medium levels of physical activity would need scientific investigation. On the other hand, both my grandfathers (their husbands, I'm legit!) worked in engineering. One died in his sixties without making it to his pension, the other died aged 82 but after twenty years of poor quality life suffering from chronic bronchitis and emphysema. The least we can do is demand investigations to find out if our jobs include risk factors that tend to shorten our lives.
If investigations show that 24 hour shifts and tight deadlines are life threatening experiences then we may move on to demand action to correct the situation. We are told that closing factories (or airports or hangars) at night is not possible. Work MUST go on round the clock, against the clock, non-stop. Shutting down overnight would cost too much. Costly, yes. But to whom?
What price are WE paying today and how long must we go on paying it? We don't send children up chimneys any more, nor do we deliberately expose workers to mercury or phophorous. But it only stopped when the dangers were identified and pressure was brought to bear for parliament to legislate. It is astonishing to realise that it was only legal intervention that lead to corrective action, otherwise people would still be dying from "Phossy Jaw" and the like.
Are we dying prematurely in the interests of cheap air travel for the masses? Maybe its time we found out...
**********************************
Through difficulties to the cinema
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The guy who retire last year at 70 has been an expatriate since 1975 . He could have retired 15 years ago with a healhy saving . At 70 , he is a lot fitter than me or many of the younger engineers.
The other who was still working at 72 was another expatriate . Again very fit with a young wife ( early 30 ) and young kid. Dont know what happen to him since 1984 . Maybe he is back in the UK .
Yes they were both on round the clock shift on the line .
I certainly have lots of respect for them .
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I know three expats who worked into their 70s. Two were on their second marriages and trying to save for retirement after their first wives had finished "asset stripping"
The third was ready to retire at 60 but lost his life savings in an "investment" scam and had to start all over again.
Thats why I suggested that your examples may have worked on because they couldn't afford to retire. In rare cases where people work on because they enjoy it the reason for their good health becomes obvious. Doing something you enjoy too much to give up promotes well-being. Many expats work on until they drop because its the only way to remain on location. The residency visa expires with the work permit but they love the place where they are working too much to leave. Sadly, not all expats have a huge pile of tax free cash stashed away in off-shore accounts.
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Through difficulties to the cinema
The third was ready to retire at 60 but lost his life savings in an "investment" scam and had to start all over again.
Thats why I suggested that your examples may have worked on because they couldn't afford to retire. In rare cases where people work on because they enjoy it the reason for their good health becomes obvious. Doing something you enjoy too much to give up promotes well-being. Many expats work on until they drop because its the only way to remain on location. The residency visa expires with the work permit but they love the place where they are working too much to leave. Sadly, not all expats have a huge pile of tax free cash stashed away in off-shore accounts.
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Through difficulties to the cinema