Vacancies? I think a large number of my colleagues in OZ may be interested.

"I ski therefore I am"
 

Ferris,

Vacancies? sh!t yeah!!! Only recruiting Enroute or Terminal with at least 3 years rated.

Have to go drink some superlative Canadian beer and watch "The Eagles" (Don Henley and Glen Frey et al, not West Coast) in concert. Post an email address and I'll get back to you tomorrow.

There are a "few" Aussies in the recruitment and training system already (alongside the plethora of ex-Nats poms).

How many ATCO's are involved in this dispute?
I'm sure, Tacolote that we'd all be interested in hearing a little more about
eg. what are their supposed areas of responsibility? How many per State?

The disease seems endemic in ALL areas of aviation - bean counters on overblown salaries trying to screw the mignons, to justify their existence (if they took a year's leave, no-one would notice!)

ATC crew, while the first to admit I get annoyed at delays when trying to get training done I'm also very glad you're on the ball and helping keep it safe for all. Good luck in your battle. AA tactics smell like the basic, screw the workers we're OK philosophy so prevalent in these mean and lean times. Great for the bottom line in the short term but hellishly expensive for the tax payer after the experience and knowledge has fled.
:mad:

All you Oz colleagues - more strength to your arms - we've been through it twice in 6 years this side of the ditch and all I can say is stick to your guns and tell the bean counters to go find economies elsewhere.
As for ULM I can only assume that he's still flying a C152 for a couple of reasons
1. He's bloody lucky not to have killed himself with those sort of slapdash who gives a stuff attitudes.
2. He's been spotted coming by anyone operating commuter level or larger aircraft and they've run a mile.
Cheers guys and good luck.:D :)

AAP

Air traffic controllers call on employer to avoid strike
MELBOURNE, June 11 AAP|Published: Tuesday June 11, 3:50 PM

Air traffic controllers called on their employer today to re-enter talks in a bid to avert a five-hour strike planned for Friday.

The union representing more than 1,100 air traffic controllers has voted to stop work at 32 locations across the country from 4pm (AEST).

The strike would affect all state and territory capitals, with the exception of the military-run Darwin International Airport.

Disruptions were caused by similar stop-work meetings before Easter this year, forcing airlines to reschedule flights across the country.

Civil Air Operations Officers Association president Ted Lang said a "simple phone call" from Air Services Australia (ASA) confirming their return to negotiations would be enough to prevent the shutdown.

Mr Lang said ASA had refused "without reason" last Friday to continue negotiations over corporatisation, fatigue, rostering, reduced job opportunities and job security.

"From our perspective we call on Air Services to continue talks," Mr Lang told reporters in Melbourne.

"We are reluctant to proceed with the stop-work because it is not our aim to disrupt the travelling public.

"All we ask is that they listen to our proposal and hold meaningful discussion."

Mr Lang also called on federal Transport Minister John Anderson to come clean over the future of air traffic control in Australia from July 1.

He said the corporatisation plan suggested by the minister proposed to establish a subsidiary called Airport Services.

And there were indications that Coffs Harbour and Maroochydore towers would close for the simple reason that they were not profitable, he said.

"At a place like Maroochydore, which is about to get Singapore Airlines international flight crew training, it flies in the face of anything the minister has suggested in the past that he is looking after regional areas."

Air traffic control centres in Perth, Adelaide and Sydney would be centralised in Melbourne under the plan, Mr Lang said.

The centralised approach had been dropped in the United States and United Kingdom because of serious operational and safety implications, and could cost the jobs of up to 150 staff, he said.

Tac

Checked your figures. You tell the truth.

To the others, the 152 isn't mine. I fly something a lot slower :D
The 152 belongs to a school I know that also does charter. These are the guys you need to convince. These are the guys paying 'LSC' to support unneeded towers. They are the ones paying to keep an ILS, VOR, NDB etc going for the RPT people. They cop the 'flow on' cost for a GPS Approach design they will never use.

Going on strike won't help. Put up good comparative argument (as one or two have here), prove to industry where the waste is, help GA survive and you might win.

Prove we don't need you and you better hope you ain't one of the ones whose job it isn't about. :(

Chuck

An insight into ASA
 

If people want to see what it is like at that organisation, here are a few examples;

It was raised in a senate estimates committee (someone help me out with the exact details) that the CEO of ASA, with approx 3000 employees and a relatively small budget, is on a salary 50% greater than the head of Community Services (60,000 employees and massive budget). In fact, the 3 next executives down the rung at ASA earned more.

The CEO, in his column in the ASA magazine, in Jan 2001, said " I hope you all enjoyed your Christmas holidays and have returned to work ready to face the challenges of the year ahead". The people at the coal face, the controllers, work 24/7, 365 days a year. How insensitive! Many controllers were at the time unable to take their annual leave due to staff shortage, and some had had applications for long service leave in for 3 years without any hope of it being granted "in the forseeable future". Out of touch? You better believe it. All this a couple of years after an avalanche of voluntary redundencies.

Ther are about 1100 operational controllers, yet ASA boasts a staff of over 3000. How much dead wood does the organisation carry?

When the organisation can't fulfil it's controllers' annual leave requirement, it buys the leave back? (Cheaper than hiring the correct amount of staff?) Guys (like me), who can't see any hope of being granted leave anywhere near when they would like it, if at all, take the money. Another year without a holiday. At least I can read about how much the CEO enjoyed his!

The organisation spends something in the order of $10 MILLION a year on legals (not to mention the managers, secretaries etc time), fighting it's staff in various courts, trying to find loopholes in agreements, EBA's etc, to save a few pennies (and loses almost without fail). It then pays a professional liar to 'spin' the facts to the public, denigrating the very profession the organisation is about. How much does Mr Dudley earn?

ASA has spent in the order of $500 MILLION on TAAATS. If it really was a commercial animal, It could have had the same result for about $50 mil (Ask ASA about Hughes- oh, another court case lost, sorry 'settled'). Is even a murmur heard about waste and ineptitude on this scale? The technology was out of date and second rate by the time it was installed.

I could go on, and I'm sure others will. You just stick to your guns, ASA managers. Crush those insolent controllers! Your track record speaks for itself. You must be right.

Tacolote,

Airservices Draft schedule B forwarded by Civil Air 18/04/02 states:

14.4.6. Staff formerly classified as Air Traffic Controllers at the date of certification of
this Agreement will continue have access to annual incremental movement to the
maximum of the Senior Controller salary range. Such staff will not be subject to
any barrier to advance into the Senior Controller range. They will be provided
with opportunities to undertake further development and carry out the range of
tasks and functions associated with the Senior Controller level.

GAAP and Other after 10years FPC $94235 basic. You would only need one ED or a couple of PH to exceed $95000.

A strike between 1600-2100 on a Friday evening will severely damage the performance of struggling airlines like Kendell & Hazelton, who on top of having to deal with being under administration, now have to put up with more disruptions. This is a crucial time for these regional airlines.

Cancelling flights, rescheduling flights, calling 1000's of passengers to receive mouthfulls of abuse by customers whose plans are out the window.

Airlines should seek compensation from this sort of behaviour.

I wonder if controllers think they are going to gain more respect from the wider community with such actions..........


:mad:

Yes, that's right. Another stroke of management GENIUS. Make all the new hires bitter and twisted from day one, when they find out they are on different (worse) conditions from everyone else. Lessons from the Cathay B-scale.
The salary isn't 'basic', it is all-in.
Exactly the sort of management 'spin' that gets up peoples noses.
You just don't get it, do you?

Airlines should seek compensation from ASA for It's behaviour.
As for lumping the blame at the feet of the controllers- simplistic and uninformed. Haven't you read the thread?
Why aren't you bitching about the airways charges- the real threat to struggling airlines?
The controllers have put up with a lot of crap for a long time, acting professionally all the way. A bit of support from the rest of the industry wouldn't go astray. Instead we get this pathetic whining.

ATCer's are crucial to the aviation industry. They should be receiving the upmost support from ALL other parts of the industry (Pilots, Airlines, Maintance personnel). Not like some of the members on here. You say that just because a C152 doesn't use ILS, NDB ect, it shouldn't have to pay for it. Then the same must apply to the road tax. Every person should be charged diffent rate. Why, because I may only drive to the shops and back once a week when some people drive 1000's of kilometres a week. Or like the proposed Water tax in Perth... I may not use excess water, yet I have to pay for the person next door who does. We have to deal with these things. If you were in the shoes of the ATC staff, then no doubt you would want the conditions they are trying to bargain for. And before you ask no I have nothing to do with ATC. I am a pilot starting out in the industry. (Sorry to those guys who are supporting the ATC strike, some of this was not directed to you, just the few who ALWAYS have bees up their bonnet)

jungmeister,

Does that really say if you are on the top you stay on the top?

I'm sure there are many bush lawyers out there, but a lawyer who does some work for the association referred to this clause as completely unenforceable and open to multiple interpretation.

I'm advised that this could mean, you go to the high point on the next level down and have access without restriction to the Senior bands. That is no qualifications required to get in, but limited by positions available. What if you don't undertake the further training that will be provided... that's right, get yourself out of the band.

Maybe I'm just a little cynical... Right, trust us!!! If I'm wrong then so be it... I'll heat some pie, but I'd like to see Tony Allison put it in writting before I bite.


Tacolote

ulm

Yep, do not blame us for that!!!
Talk to Smith, AOPA and the Howard Mob about LSP!!

Unneeded Tower’s ?? AAWWW Sure!!!
How many hours are you flying through Tower/TCU airspace per week??? Not many Me thinks!!!

This is about Professional issues (As listed above) and the Ink required to ensure our “trustworthy Employer” plays the game fairly!.

Hypothetical:

- “A” wants to negotiate, “B” won’t have any part of it (take the moldy biscuit offered or **** off!)
- “A” seeks views of members, “B” spin’s “A’s” actions as militant
- “C” is called in to umpire, “C” tells “B” to stop pissing about and talk to “A”
- “A” attempts to negotiate with “B”, “B” smiles and files their nails with no intention of negotiating with “A”
- “A” calls members to meet and discuss inaction of “B” in absence of any other option hopeful that “B” will stop pissing about and negotiate (“B” could be deliberately inciting disputation for political purposes!);) ;)
- “A” is hopeful as a result that “C” will intervene and enforce a negotiated agreement between “A” and “B”
- “B” runs to the media and accuses “A” of being unreasonable.

Go Figure!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

People need to know- that is exactly the sort of crap they run off to court about, then smirk when the controllers get upset.

There are people in this industry with no qualifications that ARE over paid, and receive unconditional support from pilots and others on this forum.
Then you read some of this non sense, like it will affect Kendals and Hazo's, well so be it. I am sure when they were more significant in the industry, i.e. not under administration fighting for survival they would have had no or little thought for who they affected in a fight for improving their conditions.
I would be supprised if the previous comments by FLAT CHAT were representative of that pilot group.
I strongly support their (ATC's) right to stop work to bring their plight to the attention of all in and using the aviation industry!

Flat Chat, looking for someone to blame, see Airservices.

For example:

The AIRC agreed to a timetable of events between both sides when they met on 29 May 2002 at the AIRC in the way of a hearing... See the transcript on airc.gov.au

Airservices has stepped outside an agreement made with a Commissioner, and they claim that Civil Air is the bad guy!

Airservices agreed to not take any further action "to proceed with the termination of Civil Airs baragining period until it has received, considered and discussed with Civil Air the comprehensive proposal Civil Air intends to bring forward".

From what I understand the final presentation was to occur on Friday 14 June 2002, yet AsA has filed twice (now) to the AIRC to take action and has not corresponded with Civil Air since the first proposal presentation on June 3.

I also understand that the AIRC is not happy with Airservices again and the way that has conducted itself, they can spot bully boy tactics a mile off.

Sorry if I'm a little terse, but it really p*sses me off that so much work is done and dismissed out of hand by an employer who has no interest in anything aviation except it's profits.

As for an earlier post about Managers: Marketing department in Canberra (for example) 4 Managers, one clerk...? Marketing of what? Please come fly here we are the ATC employers? Core business what is it all about... We've lost the plot.

$10M travel budget p.a. Geez well if maybe some of the Fatcats that worked in CB, were based where they need to do business, ie the major centres then that would be 1/4'd. Bucket acounting, can't get stationary in CB tower, not in this months budget, drive to AWB in Canberra, room full of it; can I have a few reems of paper for the printer... Yes what's your RC code (i.e. who do I bill!)

I'm not saying that all people in Canberra should go, but there is multiple waste and duplicated roles elsewhere.

We have to be competetive but crikey! Need to get a lightbulb changed, tech downstairs, he's too expensive so we get a local sparky with the right ladder in at $1.50 per hour cheaper. The tech downstairs stops playing cards and watches the local bloke change the light bulb. Net result 1 hours work ($40) leaves the company. Tech still gets paid (and watched), but company loses the $40. But it was cheaper for my managers bucket, it's a joke!

This is just one example, there are a lot worse ones.

Like misspent monies: Advertising in the QF and AN in flight magazines to lift our profile... Spent over $250K so I'm told, why? Those down the back don't care. Those up the front don't get to read the inflight mag. Was it a success? Who can tell, perhaps we'll pay some media type to do a survey ($50K) and find out...?

Somebody stop me, I'm winding myself up...

Tacolote

Disrupted passengers are not going to get into detail of this dispute. All they will care about is the disruption to their travel plans and the blame will be aimed at those going on strike as it always is.

I acknowledge that controllers have a huge responsibility and maybe more pay is justified, but the point I was trying to make, is that I think there needs to be some consideration of others in the industry, especially those who have not had it easy since September 2001. There are many out there that have received nil pay since September. (I am one of them.... :()

Flat Chat and others,

There will never be a 'right time' for any action by any group. Someone will always be disadvantaged. This is true in all industry throughouit the world. As pointed out, ASA have been ordered to negotiate with Civil Air, but ASA send people who dont have authority to make a decision, or they dont turn up.

Civil Air has been frustrated trying to get our certified agreement up and running for over 18 months. It should have been finalised before the last one ended!

We do not believe our skills have reduced, and dont see why the new guy sitting beside us is paid 1/2 the amount for doing the same job. I thought Australia had adopted an 'equal pay for equal work' ethos many, many years ago.

And, as I have mentioned in a post before, like commercial pilots, we are not paid for what we do 99% of the time. We are also paid for that 1% of the time when things turn to crap with an emergency. Just as I am damn sure I want the best bloke at the pointy end of the plane, I also want the best bloke at the pointy end of the ATC system. You dont get the best if you 'discourage' them by not offering a pay scale that reflects the importance of the job, and the responsibility that a controller (or a pilot) carries on his/her shoulder every time they start shift.

This action is NOT being taken lightly. It is taken thru frustration at lack of committment by Airservices Australia to NEGOTIATE a fair package for existing and NEW controllers.

WE will NOT devalue the worth of our job and skills by sacrificing the new for the short term gains of the old. And we will NOT sacrifice the safety of the travelling public, and all other airspace users, by sacrificing the conditions, and therefore the moral, of the new controllers.

We are a PROFESSIONAL organisation with PROFESSIONAL people, who are all aware of the ramifications that industrial action may have. Once again, it is not taken lightly, and really is only taken as a last resort.

I am still hopeful that common sense, and not a polital agenda, will prevail, and Airservices Australia will make an effort to return to the negotiating table IN GOOD FAITH.

Well, better get off the soap box before I fall off in exhaustion ;) :D