VIRGIN directly entered!
 

Can any VB'ers advise if or when interviews for direct entry Captains will occur?

It seems strange to the outside world that ,given the proposed exspansion, would it not make sense to employ the most experienced "suitable" drivers first? ( no offence to anyone)

Also, why aren't the experienced drivers employed now as f/os and promoted when needed, (GIVEN that you have three grades of f/os)?

And I presume you are one of those "experienced" drivers EP? Is an FO slot at a good company not good enough for anyone? Promotions are coming rather quickly these days so unless you are prepared to get on board and do your time you may miss out altogether.

No offence Spruce, but you missed my point.

I believe it would be far more benefical (morale etc) to employ some of the many Airline jet experienced pilots on offer as F/Os and promote as ness.

Given the volume and rapid expansion, I am simply curious why the majority of intakes seem to have little experience.

If I were employing a candidate with the view to promoting them to shorthaul international Captain of a slick new 800 within 12 months, I guess I would choose the candidate with the Airline jet exp.

Given that they were "personality sufficent", of course.

Sticking them in the right seat also allows them to assimilate.

Virgin is smart enough to use their POWER to recruit the right ATTITUDE so as to obtain optimum PERFORMANCE.

Sound familiar??? :D

Don't shoot the messenger, but was told from a reliable source that there are a "few" DE guys joining the company round July/August/September. I believe they have substantial jet time oversea's. Spruce or someone may be able to confirm/deny this.

There are going to be a few DE captains, yes. There are also quite a number of suitably experienced FO's still to be upgraded and given the immediate fleet expansion plans it would be safe to say, as of today and a day is a long time in this game, that not ALL of the FO's hired in the next few months are necessarily going to be in a position to upgrade within 12 months. Now that could change if we decide to grow the company at a faster rate than currently planned and that is of course possible. The last time it was stated "No more direct entry commands" we were planning on a fleet of 19-23 aircraft by years end. Things change and so does the crew planning requirements. Now we are heading for 28 aircraft by the end of the year. Indeed there are going to be a few more DE commands but being on board here even if you don't have a DE command is not such a bad move. It's a great place to be. The real guts of the equation for a new pilots is really the cost of the rating ( should you not be current on the 737 ) and your age ie do youhave enough years left in you to make the investment worth while? Now several years ago I came across a DC10 FE at United that was about 56 or 57 years old and sitting in the side seat. He was an ex Pan Am Captain. He was, or at least stated as such, delighted just to have a job flying even though he obviously was never going to see any more than the right seat before he retired. I know of plenty others who couldn't "lower" themselves for the "love" of aviation. My point is VB is a great place to be no matter what seat you are in. If you are suitable as a DE captain but not offered a position as such then bite the bullet and get on with a good team and you never know your luck. We have more than one criteria for upgrade and you may move on quickly. Thing is we won't always be hiring at this rate so waiting in the sidelines could be a mistake. Good luck to everyone who doesn't care what seat they are in but who want to come and work for a great airline.

Mr Sprucegoose, as you seem to be the man in the know, I was wondering if you knew how many Kiwis are with Virgin Blue (I know 2, and that there may be a couple of others), and whether it is VB's intention to recruit any others from NZ given that there are quite a number of unemployed airline-experienced pilots over here who would gladly move over the ditch for a career with VB. Or does one already have to be living in Oz to be considered?

I would probably have to be sleeping with the chief pilot to know that answer and neither one of us, as far as I know, are so inclined. Sorry. I would think that anyone with such qualifications would be looked at closely but we do actively hire a pretty broad mix of experience and just when a particular group of pilots is in favour is outside my area of direct knowledge. I only see them as they come in for initial ground school classes.

G'day Spruce

Are you still looking for 737 rated pilots or do think you'll come to look for other type rated people.
Now I quite agree, the seat you're in is irrelevant, what matters is where you want to live. if you can get both then great, if not, you've got to make your pick.
By the way, when do I start ??
Just ask the chief pilot when he wakes up :D

Well we are not looking for 737 type rated pilots as such. It may be relevent if we are looking fo DE captains but we have DE captains who were not previously typed on the 737. We have a large majority of our pilots who have never flown a 737 before or in many cases not even a jet aircraft. In other words the requirements here, on paper anyway, differ very little to those at just about any other airline you care to mention. What really counts is when you come in for the interview. Are you the personality VB want representing their product. Personality is a very big factor in the interview. Don't sweat the 737 rating. If they hire you you will have to get one as you know.

Thanks anyway! Guess I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed and my glass full. Cheers! http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/cheers.gif

I guess the point of of the thread was to understand why the need for DE entry Captains at all.

If you employ suitably exp. pilots (with the correct attitude) as f/os and promote as ness. then you avoid the inevitable ****fight down the track.
If you think little Johnny in the right seat after 12months is not going to be jumping up and down for a command before some new hire, then suck me dry and call me dusty!

I know of guys with very little piston time (only) applying 8weeks ago being interviewed and jet guys from last July being ignored.
Surely the interviews will sort out the dickheads, so whats the story?

What is the current promotion system used?

The precedent of min exp pilots being promoted is set,, therefore its hard to deny the rest, and God knows they, like all pilots, want to be Captain.

I personally know of two cathay pacific junior f/o's and some other s/o's who are leaving the fragrant harbour very soon for VB. Their descisions were holy and soley based on lifestyle and moving back home! ....... Well they had to be, because they have taked a large pay cut to move back home, however my hat is off to them and any others who feel this is the right move as money isn't everything. I have considered it for some time now as there are a few ex CX men flying now in the left seat with VB and they seem to be enjoying the job......
Maybe this proves one thing...... after the smoke clears, and you get fired from what seems to be the best job you will ever get in your career, you land on your feet again with a great company flying back in OZ which most GA pilots would consider THE BEST JOB OF THEIR CARREER!
If an oz basing on the A330 wasn't available in the next year i would be certainly considering the move myself.
Good work Vb............... Keep it up!:D :D :D :D

Dear Mr S. Goose

To clarify for me if you could please, am I correct in saying the recruitment procedure is that VB will firstly look at you without the rating, then if you are fortunate enough to be offered a position, you then go off and obtain the required rating, or is the rating prerequisite?
One more thing, where are the boys and girls getting the ratings from?

Forgive me for seeming a tad out of the loop, another one of those bl**dy expats considering coming back.
Thanking you sir!

No rating required at all to get the nod. If you get a job offer it will be contingent on going away and coming back with a 737 type rating from anywhere in the world you care to go, provided CASA will recognise the rating if it is gained overseas. Most of the pilots are going to Premair in the USA. Casa recognise the US type ratings and I believe the paperwork you get is geared toward coming home and converting the rating to the Aussie licence. Having a 737 rating up front doesn't always help, sometimes it does. In other words the only time it has been required in the past was at start up and late last year when we took on bunch of De commands and Fo's with recent type experience with the view to quick upgrades.

sprucegoose - I have a command 737 -100/200/300/400/500 rating, plenty of turbine & heavy (747) jet time, plenty of command time, plenty of multi-crew time, etc.
Have a couple of friends in VB - What else can I do to attract the recruiters interest?

Your whereabouts 13 years ago may have a bearing.

Where'd you get the 73 -100 time, 18-W, that's hard to come by?

Yeah nevermind debating which seat you'd rather sit in - how about just getting a look in for starters. I have current jet command EFIS time albeit overseas but do you think I get a nibble? Nope. And 13 years ago I was still flying Cessna 150s so presumably there's no predudice there?

The selection process is mind boggling - surely they can't tell I'm weird just from a pilotstaff cv application!

----

Shaker One

As I have said before, I don't do the recruiting. However might I just add that there seems to be an underlying attitude that some people deserve a job ahead of others based on qualifications. I am sure some pilots who are bewildered in this thread would have no more success at Qantas or Cathay ect... Sheer hours and heavy metal time don't necessarily make for automatic job qualification. I am sure this is an egg sucking statement and I appologise if so. But I ask you all this, how much experience do you need?? In a class of new hires going through at the moment we have 3 experienced 146 drivers, 2 CRJ/ turob prop experienced drivers, and I forget the rest off hand but all have significant time and all are more than qualified for the job. I understand entirely ones angst at not getting a look in if you have oodles of Efis, 737 x y z and heavy jet time. However I rather feel some of you are out there are in the contract game where having all the qulification on a particular type is required to start tomorrow. Most non contract jobs do not require such levels of currency or experience so they do not on their own constitute a "foot in the door". So far VB have hired a good and varied mix of pilots from a wide range of backgrounds. There is a method involved but I am not entirely clued in to it because it isn't my area, however I do have an inkling. Clearly I cannot "go there" in this forum but needless to say the program is working very well and we have a very very good success rate with our training. Thus there is no need to "fix" the system. I would just have to say to all interested applicants, keep updating. Keep interested and keep trying. Now some of you out there know what its like to be on the outside looking in when perhaps for so long you haven't had to be in that position. It's competetive but not necessarily based on hours in the logbook or aircraft types flown. I have said that over and over here in Pprune. VB have a long way to go yet so many many of you out there will more than likely get a chance to come in for an interview. I missed out at QF and CX, I know what its like.

This recruitment thing is really confusing for a heap of us. Heaps of guys flying Boeing EFIS all around the world and still no interview. Have we been registered on pilotstaff for a while - yes. Have we got mates pushing the CV's from inside - yes. Are we prepared to pay for the 737 rating - yes.

Still no interview.

So are DJ recruiters tending to take Australian based pilots in preference to those doing the hard yards o/s ?

Odd really that the airline was started with JR and a bunch of ozzie guys from the UK. We thought the o/s experience was seen as a benefit as we got off our bums, took a chance o/s and got on with our careers waiting for an opportunity to get back to Oz one day. It appears not.

Are the boys bitter, no just curious how the puzzle fits together.

Any comments ?

Thirteen years ago?
I was Chief Pilot of a small charter company, mainly flying an Aerostar.
Nuttin' to do with me, all that kurfuffle!

Sprucegoose

Out of interest would a British pilot who is .
able to fulfill the Australian residency requirements stand any chance of being selected for interview at Virgin Blue or is that a stupid question.

No nasty replies please we are all in the same profession

On a seperate note after all the bad news in the Australian aviation scene recently its good to read of a successful outfit thats obviously going places rapidly, the very best of luck to you all in VB.

Amazon Man, would you drop me an e-mail, I think we are on a similiar wave length. Be good to compare notes.

Spruce,

What is the procedure for applying at VB? Through an agency or direct?

thanx.

2XL, your post was going so well but I have to tell you it annoys me and probably others when you mention doing the hard yards os, do you not think the ga guys in Aust are doing hard yards(with shrinking opportunities to get into better equipment)

might have taken you out of context though??

It's been mentioned that VB F/Os are being promoted within a year. What are the experience requirements for an internal promotion at VB?

I've heard that having the right attitude is not being from the class of '89.i.e. if you joined AN or stayed there after '89, you're on the blacklist both in oz and os. Can this be true?

I would not doubt for a minute Flipside that the GA guys are doing it hard - been there ,done that ,and have the T-Shirt.

So don't worry I am empathetic to your cause.

My point is if you are able (visa ok etc) to get out of Oz and get into some heavy equipment, you could logically presume this to be of some benefit when looking at getting back downunder. This does not appear to be the case.

I differ to some of the previous posts. I think you should start at the bottom with the likes of DJ and work your way up on experience and merit - regardless of your current rank.

2XL,
I must just have a different outlook because if I was able to go os and pick up a good job I would base my presumptions on not getting back to Aust, how I always saw it and I may be wrong but the only 2 previous jet operators recruitment systems were based on training less experienced guys to operate their way.
obviously Virgin changes things a little but was Virgin around when you went os. Not withstanding I do still hope you are able to come back to a good job, just the presumptions I was going on about.
Cheers

Fl'pside
Forgive me for saying you haven't got a hoot about what you're saying. I don't think leaving Oz to fly " heavy metal " is worth it. You might be sweating in GA but you still have the ( big ) luxury to live and work at home. I'm not aussie but spend as much time in Oz as I can and let me tell you I would give the command of that big thing in a flash should Mr Rudock use the right pen to sign the right papers even to fly a wheelbarrel.
Cheers mate.

Just to let you guys know that it has been noted by a number of us already within the airline that we too are a bit confused by the inconsitencies of determining who gets an interview.
A while back, when *&^% was vetting the applications, Hazos was flavour of the month (the gorgous *&^% was ex-Hazo's). Then *@#$ took over (now in rostering, incidently) and Flight West became the airline of choice. Then there was #$%^, who didn't seem to have any pre-concieved predudice (#$%^ is now the bosses direct secretary). Now we have ^&*() , whom I haven't yet met. I don't know her history, but I'm sure that I'll be able to work it out over the next few months as the current recruits come on line.:mad:

Not getting a bit cynical are we, ozdork ? How long have you been in ? And didn't *&^% have a great set of ti*$%'s ?

Ozdork,

It has been noted by some of us that @#!$%^ who is now in charge of recruitment has actually come from the Ukraine! Therefore, if your theory is correct, VB will soon be welcoming Russian pilots from Aeroflot airlines.

Hope you get well soon !!

:)

Wallabie,
I do not think I said anything about where was better to work I was saying
-the guys in GA deservere an equal shot at the airlines(unless the company requires exp pilots with time on type
-If I went os I would not assume that gives me a right of passage back

so what the ??????? are you on about

Sorry, been away for a while. I don't know what the view is of a person who has resident status or is entitled to such when being considered for an interview. My guess is that there will always be a preference for Oz citizens. That is just my feeling and it is not reflective of anything I have heard. I just observe. The only means for applying to VB is through the web application which has a link on the VB web site at www.virginblue.com.au

The preference for which group of pilots gets in and which do not is not entirely dependant on who is working with recruiting and its a bit stupid to suggest so. However as all of the above mentioned (sort of) people are held in high regard in the Flt Ops area then if they can provide a goo character reference it will be taken into account. And where pray tell is it any different?

I am suprised Ozdork that you would view a broad mix of backgrounds among the pilots as puzzling. Whats it matter to you or anyone for that matter?

Pray tell....Emirates I do believe

;)

Women Virgins
 

Are VB taking on any Female flight crew at the moment? I hear they have two Captains and I think 2 FOs. I believe the Captains are ex AN. So what's the go people in the know? I do hope they have some more female pilots on the way. Air QATAR even has more than two. I am just curious about the stats, that's all, (not some left wing single parent etc etc)
Thanks for any replies

Of the dozen or so VB pilots I have met, through previous jobs or on overnights, they all had very different backgrounds, some military, GA, overseas, regionals, jet, no jet, all sorts.

Might be a statistically irrelevent sample, but one common thread so far - no @ssholes.

No bitching about their ops department/equipment/training captains/rostering/pay/allowances. No "I'm better than you" attitudes before or after knowing what you fly or for whom or what rank. And of the guys who worked with me in other companies, they were the guys I would happily work with again. I don't work for them and haven't applied to do so either, so that is just what I think. Good luck to VB. Just leave some routes for the rest of us!

Spruce, I don't have a problem with a good mix of backgrounds at all. In fact, that was precisely my point - when @#$% was doing the vetting, a MAJORITY came from her ex airline, and so forth. I would love to see a bigger mix of back grounds but I'm not. I even remember the large influx from your previous employer - come to think of it, we haven't had one of your ex-colleagues doing the vetting, have we, so there goes my theory. Or does it ?