Time to ditch that flying career?
 

Question for you - a change of lifestyle that many out there may also have had to face recently.

I was caught out between jobs by the Ansett crash, making my 2,200 hours (1,100 Chieftain) seem like a pretty useless asset.

I am now in a menial job earning twice what I was earning as a GA pilot (now clearing $1,000pw minimum) and I have the opportunity to return to Uni and re-train in a lucrative, flexible white collar profession while maintaining the obscene income.

What would you do?

Well if you are even thinking about it then its not in your heart..

You shouldn't be in this industry for the money but for the love of being a lovesick angel....

You have to enjoy what you do everyday, and want to jump out of bed and goto work, then the money comes next!!!!!

So I would encourage you to leave aviation alone, as maybe my next job could have been the one you just left....

Cheers <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

I agree wholeheartedly. It's tough out here but if your heart stops to think about whether to stay or to go, then go. You will be happiest in the end. I ain't in it for the money.

I encourage you to stick at it, if you can. I am only a PPL pilot and love flying, will be sitting my CPL exam this year. I have no plan to do it for a career at this stage, but that could change. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Perhaps the best of both worlds for this person is to take the job that pays the most, thus deriving some job satisfaction and flying for fun when time and money allows. Thus the best of both worlds! God, I haven't flown for "fun" in probably ten years.

A great way to figure out what you really want to do is to throw a coin in the air (Call flying heads for example) if it comes down tails and your disappointed and perhaps tempted to toss it again then you'll know what it is you really want to do.

Flying for fun is great when you get the opporunity, you pick the aircraft the destination and the pasengers, what could be better.

[ 09 January 2002: Message edited by: Throttlemonkey ]</p>

I, unfortunately am in the same position as yourself.. while things are quiet in Aviation I have taken a boring labouring job to keep on eating. However I will never lose sight of my dream of making it to the airlines one day. I suppose you need to ask yourself is Flying in your blood or not!

Go my son, do not look back lest you turn into a pillar of salt.
May I leave you with a thought.
Who would you rather be, the GIB telling the crew where he wishes to go and when, taking the odd turn in the "front office" when it suits you, or, the G'sIF sitting around waiting for him to turn up or for the ring in the middle of the night despatching you hither and yon??
Both are worthy pursuits.
I know which way I would go you must decide your direction.

I was asking what YOU would do guys, not what I should do! <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Supercharged - why hang around?

I have dedicated 15 years of my life [I]Heart and bloody soul[I] to aviation, and having been rejected by QF early last year I thought AN and DJ were good options.

How wrong I was.

Why dedicate another 5-8 years working at Chieftain time and Metro time and Cherokee time when the airine I get into, if I ever get into an airline, has a reasonable chance of being "the one that didn't make it"? (This is not a debate about which airline will survive the next 30 years, by the way!)

I will be in my mid to late 30s before the backlog of Ansett, KD, ZL and Duck pilots clears. Instead, I will jump at the chance of re-training while I am still young enough to enjoy it, get it over with, and get on with breeding rugrats (or practising for it in the meantime).

Cheers guys

If the chieftain job isn't paying the bills I'd punch out and take the other job, maybe fly as a casual when possible.

If the flying gig pays the bills then just hang in there, I'm sure your turn is just around the corner !!

A touch decision I know. Flying is the best job in the world in the worst industry in the world !

Good Luck. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Flying is nothing other than a DRUG, though admittedly a legal one (most of the time anyway <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> )

Before I got addicted I had a good career, a pretty girlfriend, heck, even a car that looked like it still had some metal left in it.

Now, I lie awake at night thinking what tomorrow will bring, even a quick island hop would stave off the shakes for a while.

When I'm not flying, I have to resort to strong caffeine, smokes, and the *occasional* beer to stop the taunting voices that call me back to the airport for just another fix...

But I know that I can stop any time I like !!

<img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Hell, I got thrashed by storms the other night that seemed intent on reducing my 'plane to its original pre-metallic state. The radar packed in, the kids were screaming. Someone chucked up down my shirt collar. I turned up all the lights so the pax wouldn't freak (any more anyway) about the electric blue haze surrounding the aircraft.
After making a controlled contact with mother earth once again, I dished what was left of my passengers to the terminal, and that of my 'plane to the engineers. My second port of call was the bar, but the first was operations to see if they had any more jobs for me......


I suppose it's like masterbating, Mum told us that our hands would drop off, but we still did it anyway <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

HdG... I hear what you're saying about asking what we would do. The problem here is that each of us, even if in the very same situation, will have a somewhat different idea on how to rectify the problem. So I think that the posts you've already seen here could be the best answers you're likely to receive.

For my part, I'd move heaven and earth to make something else happen for myself in the industry that I love. But, then, I don't believe there is any such thing as logic, where this industry is concerned... <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> :)

I loved my flying and still do... thats why I left the industry. I now have a highly rewarding job and learning more about people that I could have ever imagined.

Its a totally different world than my flying career but now I deal with fast flying road borne white trucks with red lights and getting my crews to where they can save lives (ATC for ambulances) as well as the long term goal of becoming a fully qualified paramedic.

Not everyones cup of tea but hell, neither was flying... I get try to get the most out of every job I have ever done by putting in one hundred and 10 percent. That is why most pilots get so much from flying, its a love affair with the heavens and the piece of machinery which propells them there. A sense of reward and acheivement is gained by learning, persisting and updating.

I have seen pilots get very stale when they dont have something new to learn. The human mind is an active entity which can die and decay if left to its own devices. If anyone has problems getting bored while they wait for the next flying job up the scale of things... then do a ground school... corrospondance course or something to keep your mind active.

For example I know a couple of guys who started doing their AME tickets, and they got to go on test flights all the time (and sometimes on really nice machinery) while all the regular line guys remained well and truely grounded. The AME's were getting obsene amounts of money into the bargin (compared to the run of the mill GA pilot) and they accelerated through their careers at an awesome rate. Now each of them has a jet job and hasnt had to get their hands greasy for a number of years.

Some other options tie in very well such as customer service / marketing related studies. It could make a whole world of difference to your ability to deal and rope in a whole new clientel.

So on the snakes and ladders game of aviation.. after experiencing a run of snakes, dont let the slide become complete. Multi skilling can have you climbing ladders faster than you ever dreamed was possible.

And a special thank you to a special friend who took me for a fly after nearly six months of being grounded (barring airline flights). Even though the territory weather was being as fickle as ever, a flying "fix" after a long break is greatly appreciated.

[ 10 January 2002: Message edited by: northern_chique ]</p>

You are definately in the wrong career.


Chuck.

ahhh flying for fun! what more could there be! i didnt want to go down the pilot career path because i believed doing something for a living will in the end, destroy the thrill of doing it for fun!

so i bough my own aircraft and fly whenever i can! and its surprisingly cheap! $25,000 for the plane, cruises 100Kts, 700Nm range, tail dragger, open cockpit options, +12 -6G rating,and all for the running cost of $15 per hour, including replacing the engine in 400 hrs instead of overhauling it!,
but still, nothing can compare with the sense of pride i have lifting off in my OWN plane! to do whatever i please! chase clouds, loops, rolls anything , total freedom! i wouldnt give it up for a top airline job!

if you are thinking of getting out, then your hearts not in it! get out and enjoy flying for fun!

[ 10 January 2002: Message edited by: Ultralights ]

[ 10 January 2002: Message edited by: Ultralights ]</p>

Sorry this is off the thread.....Ultralight what type of machine do you have for $25K and +6 -3g? <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

Trying to ditch the flying career, even flying altogether. You wouldn't belieeeeeve what I'm considering now.
I've learned to drink hard and not look up when something flies over. Do you know I still feel the appropriate nerve impulses in my hands when a I see an aeroplane take off.
Plus I've stood looking into the canal a few times now.

<a href="http://www.users.bigpond.com/stevendumesny/" target="_blank">http://www.users.bigpond.com/stevendumesny/</a>

i have custom ordered long range tanks, and a 4 blade Bolly Optima prop,

best thing is with a GA licence, you can fly it anywhere you would a GA aircraft! with trasponder, even CTA is legal!

[ 10 January 2002: Message edited by: Ultralights ]</p>

I'd take a good break from flying...a few months off are not going to make a difference. Have you considered any other work around planes? Agree with NC's suggestion...go AME, it can be a good one.

You'll have to excuse me because I have no love of flying in my blood, so I can't help you. But what I want to know is what is the menial job that clears you a minimum of $1000 a week??
<img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

Steepclimb,

Are you still looking into the canal?

Perhaps some proffessional advice/help might be appropriate, seriously. Love of flying is a wonderfull thing to have found in life but there is still more to it.

Anything worthwhile usually involves a lot of hardship and difficulty, so I wouldn't give it away just because at some point I've had doubts. A really successful career probably relies a lot more on grit, determination and self discipline, than pure love. Bit like a relationship, really....

And some of the best pilots I've ever known weren't afraid of a life without aviation.

White collar jobs aren't all that flash either.

Regardless of what you're doing, the routine wears thin after a few years. Sure the bucks might be good and you might have a flash car, but do you sell your life & soul for the dollar ?

Joining the rat race down the freeway every morning and afternoon, getting to the same office, to do the same routine day in day out. Anything from 10 to 18 hour days - 5 on 2 off, sometimes 6/1. That's the reality of any white collar job that pays anything half decent these days. If you boil it down to an hourly rate the fact is your average mid to upper office jock really isn't on that good a wicket.

A mate of mine is 33 and had a successful non av career he'd built up over the years, pulling somewhere between 80 - 100k. He's chucked it in to get his CPL. Everyone is saying he's a crazy ****** but he says he's got an itch he has to scratch. I say good luck to him for having the balls.

There's a good job out there for everyone if they stick it out, and when you get it you'll realise why you put up with the short term hardships.

I don't understand why anyone would want to do anything else!!!!

Just looking for the moment, Mud skipper. I know the therapy I need, it involves leaving the ground behind at regular intervals. The fact that I came to that point at all amazes me. You have to be singleminded when it comes to flying. I didn't have a safety net.

Q What would you do?

A Get back into the Chieftain.

After losing my Job in the big crash of Sep 14th, I considered a change of career. As flying runs thick in my blood I decided to hang on and work towards getting another job. One thing you must ask yourself; Do you enjoy going to work each day to fly?. If the answer is yes, need I say more. :)

Chieftans hey???


QUIT NOW, NEVER LOOK BACK

and send me the name and phone number of your old boss..... :) :) :)


Seriously, I'm in a similar situation and have decided to study part time via distance education. Although it will take a long time to complete, I'll still have a degree and experience in another line of work with a great many new options and career path variations available to me. (Maybe choose something that will combine the two?)

go whichever way you feel necessary, just don't have regrets.

I say, there is no way aviation is going to control my life in that way, I also earn several times that of a ME IFR pilot doing other things, when that sh!ts me, I fly for a while, untill that enevitably Sh!ts me.

2 years ago, I threw in my $90k a year job to go flying. I have a wife and 3 kids to feed. I targetted 2 employers, the 1st to gain hours, and the 2nd was to be the long term employer.
I now work for a regional airline. My job now gives me imense satisfaction for only 35% of what I once earned. But Christ, I am happy.
If you have the right attitude, don't be a prat and hang around flight offices trying to snag the Chief Pilot every time he walks through the office, you have a good chance of making it.

By reading through many posts in pprune, most pilots aspire to be jet jockeys, and are NOT content til they get there. Consequently they are never happy in any job they have on the way through smaller companies.

I'd love to fly a jet, but it is not gunna happen for me. I know that. I fly turbo prop, probably get command in 18 months, earning around $50k (a far cry for the majors) but it's enough to live off of, and i get to see my family every night, and I don't have to live out ot a suit case, or sleep in motel beds where gallons of others bodily fluids still roam <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

Life is what you make of it. Try to be happy where you are, and plan your next move. I will heppen !!

Flying Chieftains? There would be a thousand commercial pilots out there who would envy you.
I once went from flying left seat in a beautiful 737 around the South Pacific, to driving a Silvertop taxi, to a job in an office changing light bulbs and running errands for Yellow Pages. That was following retrenchment during a Night of the Long Knives.

Outside my office window on the 12th floor somewhere on St Kilda Road, I could see the Cessnas tootling along between Moorabin and places east over Port Philip Bay. How I envied those student pilots. After two years of indecision I made the move. Should I climb the corporate ladder to the 20th floor and become in charge of the light bulb changers ($250 a week before tax and unlimited free light bulbs) - or throw a secure job in and go back to instructing.

I did the latter and flew clapped Cessnas. Six months later a 737 job came up and I never looked back. Like winning the lottery, getting a satisfying flying job is all a matter of luck and good contacts. Flying skills are nice, but good luck is better. There are a million out of work skilful pilots, but not too many lucky ones.

For what it's worth, my advice is stay on Chieftains and never stop trying to improve your skills. They give you great personal satisfaction and may save your skin one day.
People move on, jobs come and go, doors open and close in aviation. Sh*t happens too. But one day, you will get the job you want - just be patient and keep on trying. Persistence always pays off in the end...

[ 13 January 2002: Message edited by: Centaurus ]</p>

well Infidel, why dont you let the rest of us in on how you managed to get to the regionals in 2 YEARS.

I threw in my job at the start of 2000, did my CPL and MECIR, and in about 3 months I will be able to celebrate 1 year looking for my first job. Flying a total of 3 hours in one year.

My ultimate goal is to fly for the regionals too, but I'm stuffed if I know how I'm ever going to get there when I can't even get a meatbombing job.

Radar, unless you have already tried, go BUSH young man (person?). Go to the crappiest, worst rathole you can find where there are aeroplanes. Sit it out, in a tent if necessary, and the flying work will eventually come your way. Unless you have a relative already in the airlines, the next best way in to the regionals is to accumulate hours and be current. They don't like spending too much on training, so currency is where it's at, even if it's on singles, tho' of course you would have to take any twin job on offer in preference. Nothing wrong with Chieftains either, and still a few of those out in aforementioned ratholes, I'm sure.
Anyway good luck

my SHORT AND SWEET ANSWER

When you decide to stay or go, write down your reasons for staying and going, laminate it , date it and put with your personal records.


If in a year or so your life turns to sh#t and you regret your life decision, then you can look back on the reasons for leaving flying ( or whatever it is in life) and say to yourself that you made the decision based on your feelings at the time.

WE ALL HAVE REGRETS, BUT NO ONE CAN PREDICT THE FUTURE.


U 2

well put u2.

Sh!t I dont know, Im fed up with airline flying but Id give anything to fly Spits or Stearmans for the same pay. As that is highly improbable Im stuck doin this until I can afford to put my feet up and become a bloodey useless beach bum (which is my next major project!).

Your question was - "what would you do ?"

Well, I'd devise sufficiency tests for my personal rewards, with a criteria that made sense to me, whoever I am.
So, whether you are distracted by the non flying money or just don't want anything else in flying other than an airline job; maybe answer a few questions:

Have you ever said or heard someone say about what they are doing at the time: "I/(we) am going to live this way forever - this is all I ever want to do and I want nothing to change" ?
You are obviously not in that situation but can you imagine how lucky someone would be to be able to say that about the way they live.

So, when could you say that above, about yourself: ?
In an airline job and sitting at the head of the 5* hotel resturant table with all your crew and a big feed ?
Blowing away Chinese fighters 200' AGL over Bejing in an F22 (yeah if you were a Spam...) ?
Doing fiveteen hour days working in IT or real estate making half a mil a year, living over the beach with four cars in the garage and tarts everywhere?
Being a Bhuddist monk ?
Nothing that really comes to mind ?
If its the last choice above, and if the concept in the first question is alien to you, then maybe all you were ever going to do anyway was amble along and just have a good time and pay the bills, and in the end be happy doing just that. A lot of people are, and good luck to them.

Have you ever said, or heard someone say "I am the best at what I do; I strive to constantly demonstrate that; and everyone knows that I am (well, without too much conceit here.. <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> "
If that does not appeal to you, or also is alien to you, then perhaps you don't really want anything more than a good time. Again, a lot of people do and good luck to them.

Since you aren't happy in GA, perhaps there is something else for you, but would you feel the same about that also in a few years time ?

Really, what was it about Qantas - if the QF knockback has demotivated you then ask yourself is that because you thought that your personal identity would be incomplete forever unless you are wearing a Qantas uniform, and if so, why/when ? Ie., were you thinking about this stuff before QF said NO, or was their knockback the trigger for this ?

Are you trying to do something or be something ? For either, GA does not seem to be the answer. Would Cathay do instead of QF ?

I think what Chimbu Chuck might have been saying was - if you are thinking about this stuff in the air, then stop, because your mind is not on the job.

The Pilot Psychology is based on being hell-bent on escape from the surface of the Earth; the key word being "escape", with "why, fear of....what.. (question mark)" in small italics somewhere nearby.
Do you really want to escape, or is it OK or maybe even appealing at times down there ?

Regards Rene (cough)

<a href="http://www.insider_trading_is_a_bitch.com.au" target="_blank">www.insider_trading_is_a_bitch.com.au</a>

[ 14 January 2002: Message edited by: Rene Rivkin ]</p>

Rene,

That is the best analysis of the situation I have ever seen and although I had no intention of reviewing my decision, your thoughts made me do so.

My sincere thanks

Regards,

HdG.

It all comes down to backing yourself in WHATEVER you choose to do. If you don't believe that you can do the job give it up. He who hesitates is lost. Whatever it is remember that you have to retire someday and $35k for 30 years equals not much fun in retirement.