DJ gains Altitude
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DJ gains Altitude
Fri "Herald Sun" 9/8/02
Virgin gains Altitude
By BRUCE BRAMMALL
09aug02
VIRGIN Blue has entered its first bank-based loyalty scheme, allowing Westpac customers to cash in rewards points for flights.
Westpac's Altitude credit card users will be able to book "any seat, any time" to fly on Australia's number two domestic airline.
It is the first linked loyalty program Virgin Blue, co-owned by Sir Richard Branson and Patrick Corporation, has signed.
The fledgling airline has avoided its own frequent flyer style rewards card to keep costs down. But Virgin will not be a full member. Rewards will be redeemed by travel vouchers for the airline, unlike Altitude's other airline members where points can be converted straight to flights.
The voucher program will be more reflective of regularly purchasing a flight - booking a flight for a few days time will cost more points than booking several weeks in advance.
Virgin Blue spokesman David Huttner said while this was the first direct rewards program the airline had entered, it would not be the last.
"In the past, we haven't wanted to get involved with a program because we didn't want to add costs to the airline that would have to be passed on to the customers," he said.
Mr Huttner said under the voucher system, customers would be able to book any available seat at any time.
"That takes out one of the most annoying things about most rewards programs. People who fly a lot might have millions of points, but when they want to take a holiday, they can never use the points," Mr Huttner said.
Westpac said the addition of Virgin had come at the request of customers, who wanted access to both of Australia's major domestic airlines.
Virgin gains Altitude
By BRUCE BRAMMALL
09aug02
VIRGIN Blue has entered its first bank-based loyalty scheme, allowing Westpac customers to cash in rewards points for flights.
Westpac's Altitude credit card users will be able to book "any seat, any time" to fly on Australia's number two domestic airline.
It is the first linked loyalty program Virgin Blue, co-owned by Sir Richard Branson and Patrick Corporation, has signed.
The fledgling airline has avoided its own frequent flyer style rewards card to keep costs down. But Virgin will not be a full member. Rewards will be redeemed by travel vouchers for the airline, unlike Altitude's other airline members where points can be converted straight to flights.
The voucher program will be more reflective of regularly purchasing a flight - booking a flight for a few days time will cost more points than booking several weeks in advance.
Virgin Blue spokesman David Huttner said while this was the first direct rewards program the airline had entered, it would not be the last.
"In the past, we haven't wanted to get involved with a program because we didn't want to add costs to the airline that would have to be passed on to the customers," he said.
Mr Huttner said under the voucher system, customers would be able to book any available seat at any time.
"That takes out one of the most annoying things about most rewards programs. People who fly a lot might have millions of points, but when they want to take a holiday, they can never use the points," Mr Huttner said.
Westpac said the addition of Virgin had come at the request of customers, who wanted access to both of Australia's major domestic airlines.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
"Mr Huttner said under the voucher system, customers would be able to book any available seat at any time."
If that means ANY UNSOLD seat, that is sure one helluva improvement on other FF programmes, where members are limited to the restricted seats allocated to SOME flights. eg. I wanted to use my QANTAS FF points to fly from Brisbane to Osaka - result...no seats available at ANY time.
So having Mrs KM and Jnr booked on a (QF) flight from Brisbane to Christchurch return, I thought I would use my FF points to get a freebie on the same flights - result...not a snowflakes chance in Hades - the only flights available leave early in the morning and involve extended stopovers in Sydney outbound (arriving CHC at midnight) and Auckland on the way back, necessitating an overnight -ie. hotel accomodation - in AKL.
This scheme of Virgin Blue's puts it streets ahead of others, and must also make Westpac's credit cards the superior choice!
If that means ANY UNSOLD seat, that is sure one helluva improvement on other FF programmes, where members are limited to the restricted seats allocated to SOME flights. eg. I wanted to use my QANTAS FF points to fly from Brisbane to Osaka - result...no seats available at ANY time.
So having Mrs KM and Jnr booked on a (QF) flight from Brisbane to Christchurch return, I thought I would use my FF points to get a freebie on the same flights - result...not a snowflakes chance in Hades - the only flights available leave early in the morning and involve extended stopovers in Sydney outbound (arriving CHC at midnight) and Auckland on the way back, necessitating an overnight -ie. hotel accomodation - in AKL.
This scheme of Virgin Blue's puts it streets ahead of others, and must also make Westpac's credit cards the superior choice!
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Have to agree with you Kaptin. I had numerous Ansett/Westpac points and found it hard to use. I did have United Airlines ones once and found them easier to recoup on Ansett services.
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EPIRB,
It'd only be a matter of perception, as all the Star Alliance airlines used the same inventory from Ansett - ie. X class for Economy.
You were just probably luckier when you tried your UA points - if you tried with AN points - it'd be the same.
Whether you were AN, LH, SK, UA, TG, AC, BD, RG, NH, VO, NG, SQ, NZ or whoever - you had the same allocation.
The DJ scheme is basically like a shopping voucher at David Jones, or whatever - basically an exchange of points for a cash voucher redeemable only on DJ services - so from their perspective, it's probably almost as good as cash.
It'd only be a matter of perception, as all the Star Alliance airlines used the same inventory from Ansett - ie. X class for Economy.
You were just probably luckier when you tried your UA points - if you tried with AN points - it'd be the same.
Whether you were AN, LH, SK, UA, TG, AC, BD, RG, NH, VO, NG, SQ, NZ or whoever - you had the same allocation.
The DJ scheme is basically like a shopping voucher at David Jones, or whatever - basically an exchange of points for a cash voucher redeemable only on DJ services - so from their perspective, it's probably almost as good as cash.
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Just to add, I'd be inclined to think that DJ tickets would be easier to get on this scheme - because you have the entire allocation on the plane - whatever is available.
So if you want to, you can just use your voucher to contribute against a full fare ticket - that's how I read it.
My worry is that the points/reward voucher dollars ratio will not be good - forget about 18,000 SYD-HBA-SYD (or some equivalent length route that DJ flies). If you've seen what the shopping, fuel, etc vouchers are like - it probably won't be that great a reward.
It's a total different kettle of fish compared to the AN scheme - there were only a fixed allocation of FF seats, and you couldn't pay a premium with FF points to get a better allocation.
So if you want to, you can just use your voucher to contribute against a full fare ticket - that's how I read it.
My worry is that the points/reward voucher dollars ratio will not be good - forget about 18,000 SYD-HBA-SYD (or some equivalent length route that DJ flies). If you've seen what the shopping, fuel, etc vouchers are like - it probably won't be that great a reward.
It's a total different kettle of fish compared to the AN scheme - there were only a fixed allocation of FF seats, and you couldn't pay a premium with FF points to get a better allocation.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
IF the statement, ""any seat, any time" is totally encompassing then I don't believe that the user would be restricted to full-fare tickets, TFL.
It also means that you don't need a qualifying number of points to travel on a particular sector, but can use part points and part cash. In this way Virgin Blue will not have to set aside seats on their aircraft to accomodate the FF'ers.
Interesting concept for ALL parties, and a lot more flexible from the traveller's point of view, imho.
Given this concept, I and my family would all be able to travel together on the flight of OUR CHOICE, rather than being duck-shoved onto flights that the airline is having trouble filling (as in the example I cited above.)
It also means that you don't need a qualifying number of points to travel on a particular sector, but can use part points and part cash. In this way Virgin Blue will not have to set aside seats on their aircraft to accomodate the FF'ers.
Interesting concept for ALL parties, and a lot more flexible from the traveller's point of view, imho.
Given this concept, I and my family would all be able to travel together on the flight of OUR CHOICE, rather than being duck-shoved onto flights that the airline is having trouble filling (as in the example I cited above.)
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I think you misread what I meant,
The difference with this system, unlike the other FF systems - is that this is not a pure FF system, in fact it seems it has nothing to do with Frequent Flyers - you don't earn points for flying with DJ.
What I was referring to in regards to full fare tickets, was - if the cheap tickets ran out, at least you would have the option of using the vouchers against full fare tickets - unlike frequent flyer tickets, which do not have a premium booking class (ie, you can't pay more points for better availability - except on certain airlines, which offer this to their own FFs - ie, UA & SQ).
Basically, instead of exchanging points for flights - you're exchanging points for dollars, which can only be used against flights.
The difference with this system, unlike the other FF systems - is that this is not a pure FF system, in fact it seems it has nothing to do with Frequent Flyers - you don't earn points for flying with DJ.
What I was referring to in regards to full fare tickets, was - if the cheap tickets ran out, at least you would have the option of using the vouchers against full fare tickets - unlike frequent flyer tickets, which do not have a premium booking class (ie, you can't pay more points for better availability - except on certain airlines, which offer this to their own FFs - ie, UA & SQ).
Basically, instead of exchanging points for flights - you're exchanging points for dollars, which can only be used against flights.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
I didn't "miss" what you said, TFL - it doesn't take a brain surgeon (let alone a pilot) to work out that Virgin Blue is not operating a Frequent Flyer club.
In fact, ANYBODY - regardless of which airline they usually fly, and even if they have NEVER used VB before - can now use their Westpac Altitude card points towards (or in full payment for) a flight with Virgin Blue for domestic travel, and then (as is my case) if they are a QANTAS FF'er, use the balance of their points - if they have enough, AND a suitable flight is available - to travel on QF.
And therein lies the difference. At this point in time it would appear that travel with Virgin Blue willl be TOTALLY UNRESTRICTED - unlike ALL other points programmes with other airlines.
It would apperar that anyone with even only (for example) $20 worth of Altitude points, can use that small total of point to travel on VB.
In my opinion, a VERY clever marketing ploy - after all why WOULDN'T you cash in your Altitude points for a flight with VB, rather than waiting to gain enough FF points with (say) QF, only to find that when you DO have enough points a suitable flight is not available, or in some cases NEVER WILL BE?!
In fact, ANYBODY - regardless of which airline they usually fly, and even if they have NEVER used VB before - can now use their Westpac Altitude card points towards (or in full payment for) a flight with Virgin Blue for domestic travel, and then (as is my case) if they are a QANTAS FF'er, use the balance of their points - if they have enough, AND a suitable flight is available - to travel on QF.
And therein lies the difference. At this point in time it would appear that travel with Virgin Blue willl be TOTALLY UNRESTRICTED - unlike ALL other points programmes with other airlines.
It would apperar that anyone with even only (for example) $20 worth of Altitude points, can use that small total of point to travel on VB.
In my opinion, a VERY clever marketing ploy - after all why WOULDN'T you cash in your Altitude points for a flight with VB, rather than waiting to gain enough FF points with (say) QF, only to find that when you DO have enough points a suitable flight is not available, or in some cases NEVER WILL BE?!
Suckers are born everyday. Let me tell you it is not as attractive as you may hope. Kaptin M may be disappointed.
Since inception of the Altitude Card you have been able to redeem points for flights with every major airline in the world. You simply call 1 300 887 820 and tell the representative where and when you would like to travel and they will give you a quote on how many Altitude points you need to redeem. The booking can be done at the time.
You have access to every available seat. If you have insufficient points you can top up by paying the difference with your Altitude credit card.
If you wish QF or NF frequent flyer members can convert Altitude points to QF or NZ frequent flyer points.
You can also redeem Altitude points for Car Hire, Accommodation, Holiday Packages, Travel Vouchers etc etc
In the case of Virgin Blue travel, only the Travel Voucher option is available. A $25 voucher requires 6,250 points, a $100 voucher requires 12,500 points.
See www.westpac.com.au and click on 'credit cards' for further information.
I believe Virgin Blue are using misleading deceptive tactics on the public.
Ps. The ANZ bank rewards scheme offers a cash credit back to your credit card account as an alternative.
Since inception of the Altitude Card you have been able to redeem points for flights with every major airline in the world. You simply call 1 300 887 820 and tell the representative where and when you would like to travel and they will give you a quote on how many Altitude points you need to redeem. The booking can be done at the time.
You have access to every available seat. If you have insufficient points you can top up by paying the difference with your Altitude credit card.
If you wish QF or NF frequent flyer members can convert Altitude points to QF or NZ frequent flyer points.
You can also redeem Altitude points for Car Hire, Accommodation, Holiday Packages, Travel Vouchers etc etc
In the case of Virgin Blue travel, only the Travel Voucher option is available. A $25 voucher requires 6,250 points, a $100 voucher requires 12,500 points.
See www.westpac.com.au and click on 'credit cards' for further information.
I believe Virgin Blue are using misleading deceptive tactics on the public.
Ps. The ANZ bank rewards scheme offers a cash credit back to your credit card account as an alternative.
Last edited by B772; 10th Aug 2002 at 01:07.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
"You have access to every available seat - ONLY on SELECTED flights!!
Read the WHOLE thread, B772.
Your post is extremely inaccurate, eg. "..redeem points for flights with every major airline in the world".
As an example, go the QANTAS Frequent Flyer home page:
http://www.qantas.com.au/content/dyn...ts/quickSearch
and try to find an available flight (using your points) ANYTIME from Brisbane/Sydney to Osaka.
Can't?? Okay, now try to travel from Brisbane to Christchurch return DIRECT.
Can't??!! Surprise, surprise!!
Well in that case try doing BNE-CHC return without lengthy layovers/forced overnights in SYD and
AKL.
You have jumped in on the tail end of this topic without reading the other posts, 772.
Read the WHOLE thread, B772.
Your post is extremely inaccurate, eg. "..redeem points for flights with every major airline in the world".
As an example, go the QANTAS Frequent Flyer home page:
http://www.qantas.com.au/content/dyn...ts/quickSearch
and try to find an available flight (using your points) ANYTIME from Brisbane/Sydney to Osaka.
Can't?? Okay, now try to travel from Brisbane to Christchurch return DIRECT.
Can't??!! Surprise, surprise!!
Well in that case try doing BNE-CHC return without lengthy layovers/forced overnights in SYD and
AKL.
You have jumped in on the tail end of this topic without reading the other posts, 772.
Kaptin M, forget about following the other sheep and what they have said in their posts.
My Altitude information says:
Quote
'Access to every major domestic and international airline operating within, to and from Australia and their partner airlines, providing there is a seat available on the flight of your choice'.
Unquote
You may be a little confused in all of this.
With the Altitude scheme you are simply buying goods and services at retail value using points.
Feel free to ask me for any further clarification if required.
My Altitude information says:
Quote
'Access to every major domestic and international airline operating within, to and from Australia and their partner airlines, providing there is a seat available on the flight of your choice'.
Unquote
You may be a little confused in all of this.
With the Altitude scheme you are simply buying goods and services at retail value using points.
Feel free to ask me for any further clarification if required.
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DJ have just entered an already existing program offering their customers an added choice for purchasing a seat. They made no claim to have invented this program, they simply joined it. I don't think this is misleading at all.
