Mb Collision
My old man was telling me that 25 odd years ago at AF the tower opened one night a week for circuit training at night and the rest of the week it wasn't allowed. I guess no point blaming the lack of tower 100%....didn't save the people in BK recently...
Tragic accident none the less.....spare a thought for the 2 guys that lived, i'm sure they wouldn't be feeling the best at the moment.
Tragic accident none the less.....spare a thought for the 2 guys that lived, i'm sure they wouldn't be feeling the best at the moment.
When you become a pilot you join a group of people who enjoy their chosen career or hobby like no other person on earth. Its a passion you can feel and where you see the view change every single moment. When one of us gets cleared to a higher altitude than man could ever hope to fly we all feel that loss. We mourn briefly but choose to remember quickly with a drink and a smile and always remember those who fly with us. I hope those close to this young aviator can feel the spirit that now flies with all of us. We always remember
Nunc est bibendum
Cadet courses are pretty tight knit groups and a loss such as this would be an incredible weight to bear. I certainly hope QF does the right thing by you guys.
My prayers, thoughts and condolences to all the people affected by this tragedy.
My prayers, thoughts and condolences to all the people affected by this tragedy.
Indeed a sad day.
As has been mentioned above, an open tower did not prevent the YSBK accident.
However what is the cost of a tower for 3 hours an evening for say 5 nights a week? Then divide that by the number of movements, there is the cost.
To bring up the idea of affordable safety and then erroneously attribute that to Dick Smith is inappropriate. Of course we could have the towers open 24/7 but we don't because of the low level of risk between say midnight and 0700.
Southland is quite correct. Affordable safety already exists as operating mantra, otherwise Boeing and Airbus would only produce aircraft with four engines.
Condolences to the young ladies family.
However what is the cost of a tower for 3 hours an evening for say 5 nights a week? Then divide that by the number of movements, there is the cost.
To bring up the idea of affordable safety and then erroneously attribute that to Dick Smith is inappropriate. Of course we could have the towers open 24/7 but we don't because of the low level of risk between say midnight and 0700.
Southland is quite correct. Affordable safety already exists as operating mantra, otherwise Boeing and Airbus would only produce aircraft with four engines.
Condolences to the young ladies family.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well said ozbiggles. Right on the money for mine. Another sad day. Not as close to home as the BK accident earlier this year but still gave me 'that' feeling in the stomach when I first heard about it.
Sincere condolences to all involved.
l_b
Sincere condolences to all involved.
l_b
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Vietnam
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What price "affordable safety" now, Mr Smith?
Leave this one alone!
It is such a tragedy to see such a wonderful women depart this world so early.
My sincere condolences to the family.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Perth, Dunnunda
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
tragic accident
I am not a licensed pilot myself although I have flown before and I can only say how sorry I feel for all those involved. It is always sad to lose people so young. I am 19 years old myself and cannot imagine the pain her parents are going through, not having had children myself, although I lost my father, so I can sympathise with them.
I thought Ozbiggles said it very well, and the next time I'm flying circuits I'll think of that young girl who like myself, just wanted to fly.
Every time I'm cruising at three-zero I cannot help but think of all of those men and women who have gone before me, doing what they loved best.
Heartfelt condolances to all involved.
I thought Ozbiggles said it very well, and the next time I'm flying circuits I'll think of that young girl who like myself, just wanted to fly.
Every time I'm cruising at three-zero I cannot help but think of all of those men and women who have gone before me, doing what they loved best.
Heartfelt condolances to all involved.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My thoughts to her Mum, Dad, Tim, and all of us that knew Holly and appreciated how great a mate she was.
Holly, you won't be forgotten and wherever you are know i am thinking of you.
I still remember the face you pulled when you found out i cried over the balcony, pissed as a monkey on the Gold Coast !
Holly, you won't be forgotten and wherever you are know i am thinking of you.
I still remember the face you pulled when you found out i cried over the balcony, pissed as a monkey on the Gold Coast !
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Townsville,Nth Queensland
Posts: 2,717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sat "Melbourne Age"
Bright lights linked to Moorabbin death crash
By Peter Patrick
August 3 2002
Last Monday, two planes collided as they approached the runway at Moorabbin airport. It was 6.40pm and the airport control tower had closed for the day. The Cessna 172s were about 15 metres above the ground when the accident occurred.
Qantas cadet, Holly Smith, 19, a commercial pilot with 200 hours' flying time, died after her plane hit the runway in a ball of flame. Flight instructor Ben Matar, 24, and his student, also believed to be a Qantas cadet, miraculously escaped.
While much debate has focused on the fact that the airport's control tower was unmanned, experienced pilots are asking whether poor visibility because of the impact of surrounding lights was a factor in the crash.
Captain John Laming is one of Australia's most senior instructor pilots, with training experience in military and civil aviation. He is well aware of the operational difficulties of flying at night at Moorabbin.
"Once you get four or five aircraft practising from Moorabbin's single lighted runway, the workload of each pilot starts to rise dramatically," he said.
"The runway lighting is dim, and if the cockpit lighting is turned up or the overhead light (main cockpit light) is on for comfort, you can get quite a bit of refraction, with outside reflection adding to the problem. Then you can bet other planes will be very hard to see."
Tony Taggart, a chartered accountant and aviator describes Monday's accident as comparable to a car running a red light. "Aircraft get lost (visually) in the lights surrounding the airport. It's essential you locate the aircraft you're following when this happens. The large numbers of lights play tricks on your eye," he said.
"It can be a dog's breakfast up there, particularly the bright hockey club lights at the northern end of the strip."
Optics consultant Dr Barry Clark, a retired defence scientist and experienced pilot, believes that external lighting is a major problem at Moorabbin airport. He says bright surrounding lights at the airport wash out the small amount of light emitted from small aircraft's navigation lights.
"You have this enormous collection of lights shining uselessly into the sky, and it is becoming increasingly difficult to see the airport and surrounding planes," he said.
Dr David Hooke, a consultant physician and member of the Aviation Medical Society, is more blunt. "It's bloody hard to see over Moorabbin now. There are many lights surrounding the airport that are blinding to look at. If a pilot fixates on those lights, you can lose a lot of depth perception and the ability to judge distance.
" If you approach from some directions and at a distance you can pick up the curve of the bay, because beyond that, the sky is black. However, close to the airport runaway lights and navigation lights, which are vital to safe flying, can be very difficult to find."
Moorabbin airport has some of the least cluttered approach corridors of any major urban airport - largely over golf courses, open paddocks and market gardens - but local residents have safety concerns.
Tom Uren, president of the Moorabbin Airport Residents Association, wants the tower be manned for night operations. Indeed, it is arguable that pilots require more assistance at night than during the day.
Aviation authorities remained tight-lipped this week. The Australian Transport Safety Bureau refused to comment on the crash. Peter Gibson, of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority, said the authority wouldawait the bureau's report before deciding if action was required.
A spokesperson for federal Transport Minister John Anderson said the Minister was concerned about the crash, but had complete confidence in the bureau to produce a thorough report.
Bright lights linked to Moorabbin death crash
By Peter Patrick
August 3 2002
Last Monday, two planes collided as they approached the runway at Moorabbin airport. It was 6.40pm and the airport control tower had closed for the day. The Cessna 172s were about 15 metres above the ground when the accident occurred.
Qantas cadet, Holly Smith, 19, a commercial pilot with 200 hours' flying time, died after her plane hit the runway in a ball of flame. Flight instructor Ben Matar, 24, and his student, also believed to be a Qantas cadet, miraculously escaped.
While much debate has focused on the fact that the airport's control tower was unmanned, experienced pilots are asking whether poor visibility because of the impact of surrounding lights was a factor in the crash.
Captain John Laming is one of Australia's most senior instructor pilots, with training experience in military and civil aviation. He is well aware of the operational difficulties of flying at night at Moorabbin.
"Once you get four or five aircraft practising from Moorabbin's single lighted runway, the workload of each pilot starts to rise dramatically," he said.
"The runway lighting is dim, and if the cockpit lighting is turned up or the overhead light (main cockpit light) is on for comfort, you can get quite a bit of refraction, with outside reflection adding to the problem. Then you can bet other planes will be very hard to see."
Tony Taggart, a chartered accountant and aviator describes Monday's accident as comparable to a car running a red light. "Aircraft get lost (visually) in the lights surrounding the airport. It's essential you locate the aircraft you're following when this happens. The large numbers of lights play tricks on your eye," he said.
"It can be a dog's breakfast up there, particularly the bright hockey club lights at the northern end of the strip."
Optics consultant Dr Barry Clark, a retired defence scientist and experienced pilot, believes that external lighting is a major problem at Moorabbin airport. He says bright surrounding lights at the airport wash out the small amount of light emitted from small aircraft's navigation lights.
"You have this enormous collection of lights shining uselessly into the sky, and it is becoming increasingly difficult to see the airport and surrounding planes," he said.
Dr David Hooke, a consultant physician and member of the Aviation Medical Society, is more blunt. "It's bloody hard to see over Moorabbin now. There are many lights surrounding the airport that are blinding to look at. If a pilot fixates on those lights, you can lose a lot of depth perception and the ability to judge distance.
" If you approach from some directions and at a distance you can pick up the curve of the bay, because beyond that, the sky is black. However, close to the airport runaway lights and navigation lights, which are vital to safe flying, can be very difficult to find."
Moorabbin airport has some of the least cluttered approach corridors of any major urban airport - largely over golf courses, open paddocks and market gardens - but local residents have safety concerns.
Tom Uren, president of the Moorabbin Airport Residents Association, wants the tower be manned for night operations. Indeed, it is arguable that pilots require more assistance at night than during the day.
Aviation authorities remained tight-lipped this week. The Australian Transport Safety Bureau refused to comment on the crash. Peter Gibson, of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority, said the authority wouldawait the bureau's report before deciding if action was required.
A spokesperson for federal Transport Minister John Anderson said the Minister was concerned about the crash, but had complete confidence in the bureau to produce a thorough report.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
adppro, my sentiments exactly.
My sincere condolences to her family, and to everyone else who knew Holly.
Her love for flying was imeasurable, and she has touched all who knew her. I also will never forget Holly for her loving smile and personality. We all knew what a great captain she would have made.
Holly, you have left an indellable mark on everyone who knew you, and as such you will never be forgotten as the amazing friend that you were.
R.I.P
OH
My sincere condolences to her family, and to everyone else who knew Holly.
Her love for flying was imeasurable, and she has touched all who knew her. I also will never forget Holly for her loving smile and personality. We all knew what a great captain she would have made.
Holly, you have left an indellable mark on everyone who knew you, and as such you will never be forgotten as the amazing friend that you were.
R.I.P
OH
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Oz
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Sydney Morning Herald,
Saturday Aug 3, 2002
SMITH, Holly Elisabeth Vlaming.
July 29, 2002 (suddenly), as a result of an aircraft accident,
beautiful and loved daughter of Susan and Russell and loved sister
of David, much loved granddaughter of Pat and Martin Vlaming and
Peter and Ley (deceased) Smith, loved niece of Sunny and Brett
South and Phillip and Jackie Smith. Will be missed by Tilly and Phillip,
Daniel and Shona, special great-granddaughter to "Nanny"
(deceased).
Aged 19 years.
Oh that I had wings like a dove!
For then would I fly away,
and be at rest.
Family and friends are invited to a service, to be held in the
Abbotsleigh Chapel, Abbotsleigh School, Wahroonga, on Monday
(August 5, 2002), commencing at 1 p.m. This will be followed by
private cremation.
By request no flowers, donations to the "Abbotsleigh Holly
Smith Education Fund", PO Box 2, Wahroonga 2076 are appreciated.
HAMILTON FUNERALS
_____________________
Rest in peace Holly.
Saturday Aug 3, 2002
SMITH, Holly Elisabeth Vlaming.
July 29, 2002 (suddenly), as a result of an aircraft accident,
beautiful and loved daughter of Susan and Russell and loved sister
of David, much loved granddaughter of Pat and Martin Vlaming and
Peter and Ley (deceased) Smith, loved niece of Sunny and Brett
South and Phillip and Jackie Smith. Will be missed by Tilly and Phillip,
Daniel and Shona, special great-granddaughter to "Nanny"
(deceased).
Aged 19 years.
Oh that I had wings like a dove!
For then would I fly away,
and be at rest.
Family and friends are invited to a service, to be held in the
Abbotsleigh Chapel, Abbotsleigh School, Wahroonga, on Monday
(August 5, 2002), commencing at 1 p.m. This will be followed by
private cremation.
By request no flowers, donations to the "Abbotsleigh Holly
Smith Education Fund", PO Box 2, Wahroonga 2076 are appreciated.
HAMILTON FUNERALS
_____________________
Rest in peace Holly.
