BAe 146 Fumes again
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BAe 146 Fumes again
Qantas flight aborted: passengers treated for fumes
AAP SMH 22 July 2002
A Qantas Airways flight was aborted and three passengers treated with oxygen after being overcome by fumes just as the aircraft was about to take off from Brisbane today.
Richard Dudley, a spokesman for air traffic controllers Airservices Australia, said the Qantas Link flight from Brisbane to Alice Springs with 59 passengers aboard was aborted at 9.35am (AEST) when cabin staff and passengers noticed fumes coming from the air conditioning and smoke from the aircraft.
"It was lined up at the end of the runway ready for take-off," Mr Dudley said.
The pilot decided to abort the flight and return to the terminal.
The passengers were evacuated and the aircraft was towed to a hangar.
Mr Dudley said three or four passengers were given oxygen by airport emergency services personnel but the remainder were not affected.
The aircraft, a BAE 146, was this morning being checked by Qantas engineers.
AAP SMH 22 July 2002
A Qantas Airways flight was aborted and three passengers treated with oxygen after being overcome by fumes just as the aircraft was about to take off from Brisbane today.
Richard Dudley, a spokesman for air traffic controllers Airservices Australia, said the Qantas Link flight from Brisbane to Alice Springs with 59 passengers aboard was aborted at 9.35am (AEST) when cabin staff and passengers noticed fumes coming from the air conditioning and smoke from the aircraft.
"It was lined up at the end of the runway ready for take-off," Mr Dudley said.
The pilot decided to abort the flight and return to the terminal.
The passengers were evacuated and the aircraft was towed to a hangar.
Mr Dudley said three or four passengers were given oxygen by airport emergency services personnel but the remainder were not affected.
The aircraft, a BAE 146, was this morning being checked by Qantas engineers.
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Nothing new !!
I wonder what the cover-up will be this time !!I've said it before (enough)I guess they will find a scapegoat again and make another story to get the "Powers to be"from grounding the a-craft.
I wonder what the cover-up will be this time !!I've said it before (enough)I guess they will find a scapegoat again and make another story to get the "Powers to be"from grounding the a-craft.
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Aunty just reported that according to Qantas the problem was with the hydraulic system (the news item included a reference to the previous enquiry re cabin fumes). Couldn't see the rego.
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This seems most unusual. These aircraft have a history of blowing engine/apu oil seals. Some incidents in AN and EWA were controlled by engine air reselection of the offender or the PAC being isolated . Can someone tell me how the Hydraulics were involved ?
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Good day Redback
Hydraulic fluid(fumes,misting whatever you want to call it enter's the cabin from beneath the floor from the hydraulic bay(located in front of the main gear wheel-well)In this instance it was excessive and the resultant effect is that people noticed it very rapidly.Ansett had a continual prob with this and fuming from engine bleed air (different oil)One band-aid that was tried(not succesfully)was the installation of tape to all the floor panels above the bay.Another was to cover-up the smell by installing scented pieces(like most put in cars)in the cabin beneath every second seat.(again not succesful)But makes the inside of the aircraft smell nice(physco approach).Most aircraft hydraulic systems require a pressure head on the system tanks to keep the pumps primed and when certain controls are operated (flaps,rudder,landing gears) the excessive pressure from differential actuators has to be bleed off.Unfortunatly in the 146's case It is vented into a pressurized area (cabin indirectly from below the floor)
Operating procedures for the aircraft require the crew to select
recirc for air-conditioning (fuel saving by not requiring an much bleed air from the engines)this agrivates the problem by stirring up the air in the cabin and pulling the fumes from below floor level into the cabin.
The most common complaint from crew is the smell of engine oil fumes(MJ2,later in the piece the manufacturer requested MJ 291 due to less aromatics in it)Sort of like taking the onion fumes out of gas so it can't be detected by the average person.(again physo
effect)but is still present.
Cabin black light testing was carried out to locate the prob, the source of the fumes (mid-90's)and to try to rectify (like watching star-wars jump to hyper-space)to no avail.
Hydraulic fluid(fumes,misting whatever you want to call it enter's the cabin from beneath the floor from the hydraulic bay(located in front of the main gear wheel-well)In this instance it was excessive and the resultant effect is that people noticed it very rapidly.Ansett had a continual prob with this and fuming from engine bleed air (different oil)One band-aid that was tried(not succesfully)was the installation of tape to all the floor panels above the bay.Another was to cover-up the smell by installing scented pieces(like most put in cars)in the cabin beneath every second seat.(again not succesful)But makes the inside of the aircraft smell nice(physco approach).Most aircraft hydraulic systems require a pressure head on the system tanks to keep the pumps primed and when certain controls are operated (flaps,rudder,landing gears) the excessive pressure from differential actuators has to be bleed off.Unfortunatly in the 146's case It is vented into a pressurized area (cabin indirectly from below the floor)
Operating procedures for the aircraft require the crew to select
recirc for air-conditioning (fuel saving by not requiring an much bleed air from the engines)this agrivates the problem by stirring up the air in the cabin and pulling the fumes from below floor level into the cabin.
The most common complaint from crew is the smell of engine oil fumes(MJ2,later in the piece the manufacturer requested MJ 291 due to less aromatics in it)Sort of like taking the onion fumes out of gas so it can't be detected by the average person.(again physo
effect)but is still present.
Cabin black light testing was carried out to locate the prob, the source of the fumes (mid-90's)and to try to rectify (like watching star-wars jump to hyper-space)to no avail.
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Fuitloop,NJS procedures have had the A/C in fresh for some years now.
I did 6000 hrs in that bucket and only ever heard of one hydraulic mist/fumes type problem ( in NJS ), and that was'nt a design fault, something let go..
Not saying it only happened once but it is infinitely less of a problem than the engine/apu oil fumes.
I did 6000 hrs in that bucket and only ever heard of one hydraulic mist/fumes type problem ( in NJS ), and that was'nt a design fault, something let go..
Not saying it only happened once but it is infinitely less of a problem than the engine/apu oil fumes.
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From the reports this was not one of the engineers smelly(and oily) socks in the aircon that is the normal drama, but a hydraulic leak.
All that remains is to find out how the skydrol got into the cabin. The hyd bay is sealed from the cabin. I am only aware of one example when a hyd bay leak has contaminated the cabin. Was on a -200 out of Perth, NJJ or NJH I think.
Given there was reported smoke as well, perhaps ingested thru APU intake, when one of those lines lets go it goes for miles. Rember seeing one taxi in when a spoiler retract line let go, was giving itself a sydrol arch welcome.
All that remains is to find out how the skydrol got into the cabin. The hyd bay is sealed from the cabin. I am only aware of one example when a hyd bay leak has contaminated the cabin. Was on a -200 out of Perth, NJJ or NJH I think.
Given there was reported smoke as well, perhaps ingested thru APU intake, when one of those lines lets go it goes for miles. Rember seeing one taxi in when a spoiler retract line let go, was giving itself a sydrol arch welcome.
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To "I'm with stupid".
I'm glad to hear that you had an un-eventual time flying the
BAE.I hope in all the time that you operated the a-craft you never had a "air low press."light illuminated on the overhead hyd panel
and the coffee tasted just right !!!
I'm glad to hear that you had an un-eventual time flying the
BAE.I hope in all the time that you operated the a-craft you never had a "air low press."light illuminated on the overhead hyd panel
and the coffee tasted just right !!!
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Did you know that the 146 was the only aircraft the Russians DIDN'T bother to copy??!!
I can't understand why so many 146's are still flying?
Do they give them away for free?
Last edited by hmm...; 28th Jul 2002 at 08:58.
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Fruitloop, Had just about every light on the o/head at one stage or another, and the coffee was a hit and miss job.
The reason they are still flying is the low lease cost and the fact that there is'nt another A/C that size, that will do the job for the money.
And lets be honest with ourselves for a second, apart from the fumes ( which is not an every day occurence ) the pax like them.
The reason they are still flying is the low lease cost and the fact that there is'nt another A/C that size, that will do the job for the money.
And lets be honest with ourselves for a second, apart from the fumes ( which is not an every day occurence ) the pax like them.
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To I'm with Stupid
I believe people have taken my comments out of context and would like to clarify a few
1.I can appreciate the value in the aircraft from an operational aspect (read passenger)lease cost,including maintenance.
2.I can appreciate the operating limitations and design(yep! even if it a cross between a Massey Ferguson and a Malvern star with regards landing gears where any landing is controlled,"Built for an a-craft carrier"and can be slammed home with primary flight controls driven by chains !)
3.I can appreciate the nightmares that went through the designers head trying to get a rectangular peg (gear)into a square hole.
4.I can also appreciate the 502/507 engines limitations (yep even the "A" motors )for compact,user friendly,efficent (read pain to work on)get me home type strengths !!
5.I can also appreciate the fuel systems for their no-fuss simpleness and workings (including redundant back-ups)and simple FCU's
6.I can appreciate the Air-conditioning systems (including air-bearings,dual water separators (yep even emergency recirc for pack failure)
The only thing that really got up my nose(no pun intended)was "British intelligence"attitude to people "down-under"for reporting a "singular incidence"and suggesting (recomending)a simple solution to alliviate what "could be"an ongoing problem,the rest is history.(beside my personal dislike of AD's from March 91 and June 93 but thats another story).
To all that operate it I personally think it has been a winner for most Aussi conditions(bar silly I.S.A. conditions for performance)
Thank you
I believe people have taken my comments out of context and would like to clarify a few
1.I can appreciate the value in the aircraft from an operational aspect (read passenger)lease cost,including maintenance.
2.I can appreciate the operating limitations and design(yep! even if it a cross between a Massey Ferguson and a Malvern star with regards landing gears where any landing is controlled,"Built for an a-craft carrier"and can be slammed home with primary flight controls driven by chains !)
3.I can appreciate the nightmares that went through the designers head trying to get a rectangular peg (gear)into a square hole.
4.I can also appreciate the 502/507 engines limitations (yep even the "A" motors )for compact,user friendly,efficent (read pain to work on)get me home type strengths !!
5.I can also appreciate the fuel systems for their no-fuss simpleness and workings (including redundant back-ups)and simple FCU's
6.I can appreciate the Air-conditioning systems (including air-bearings,dual water separators (yep even emergency recirc for pack failure)
The only thing that really got up my nose(no pun intended)was "British intelligence"attitude to people "down-under"for reporting a "singular incidence"and suggesting (recomending)a simple solution to alliviate what "could be"an ongoing problem,the rest is history.(beside my personal dislike of AD's from March 91 and June 93 but thats another story).
To all that operate it I personally think it has been a winner for most Aussi conditions(bar silly I.S.A. conditions for performance)
Thank you
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Frituy, the 507 doesn't have any limitations.
Hmmm. If you had ever flown the 146 you may not make such a boistrous claim. Horses for courses mate. In some parts of the world the 146 is the only mid size jet that can do the job! Boeing and Airbus a/c not suitable. I did nearly 6000 hours in the monolith and whilst they were trying at times, still had pretty good fun.
Capn Bloggs. That's because they haven't picked themselves up off the floor from laughter yet!!!!
Hmmm. If you had ever flown the 146 you may not make such a boistrous claim. Horses for courses mate. In some parts of the world the 146 is the only mid size jet that can do the job! Boeing and Airbus a/c not suitable. I did nearly 6000 hours in the monolith and whilst they were trying at times, still had pretty good fun.
Capn Bloggs. That's because they haven't picked themselves up off the floor from laughter yet!!!!