Virgin Blues Sim Endorsement Program
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Virgin Blues Sim Endorsement Program
Virgin Blue wannabees transitioning to aboutobees can now do their 734 endorsement in house with Virgin!
First course starts in a fortnight.
First course starts in a fortnight.
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It's not a VB setup, as I understand it. It's being run by a couple of VB pilots, and the endorsement will be to VB's standards and requirements, but it is still an "outside" organisation from what I can tell.
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Gnadenburg
I'm just curious - how can a serviceable sim be a piece of junk??
This supposed ex AN sim seemed to do a good job in training not only the old AN/Air NZ drivers but is (was) also used by VB themselves.
The sim fidelity of all simulators are checked on a regular basis and are monitored by CASA whom fly the sims themselves.
A sim is a sim is a sim...........put the correct inputs in and the results speak for themselves - thats the joy of a computer.
Perhaps Gnads your mates had a rough trot in this sim and didn't perform to the standard to which they would have liked.
Knock the individual I reackon - not the sim.
Its a computer that doesnt know any different and they are all the same!
Just as a point the QF B737-400 is a tad more stable to fly than the -300.
The same goes for the aircraft too in my opinion.
I'm just curious - how can a serviceable sim be a piece of junk??
This supposed ex AN sim seemed to do a good job in training not only the old AN/Air NZ drivers but is (was) also used by VB themselves.
The sim fidelity of all simulators are checked on a regular basis and are monitored by CASA whom fly the sims themselves.
A sim is a sim is a sim...........put the correct inputs in and the results speak for themselves - thats the joy of a computer.
Perhaps Gnads your mates had a rough trot in this sim and didn't perform to the standard to which they would have liked.
Knock the individual I reackon - not the sim.
Its a computer that doesnt know any different and they are all the same!
Just as a point the QF B737-400 is a tad more stable to fly than the -300.
The same goes for the aircraft too in my opinion.
Timmee
Agree totally-not my words,quoting comments from VB/AirNZ pilots,from this forum.
It was always described as being more of a challenge to fly than other sims.Maybe your right,those who struggle,label it a piece of junk.
Agree totally-not my words,quoting comments from VB/AirNZ pilots,from this forum.
It was always described as being more of a challenge to fly than other sims.Maybe your right,those who struggle,label it a piece of junk.
Can I ask a question without it turning into a slanging match??...but how come a DJ endorsement takes 10 days, whereas currrent QF and ex AN people do/did endorsements that take 'months' not weeks?
Nunc est bibendum
Puff, not sure of some of the figures but here you go.
QFs pure 'endorsement' would be about a month. You then have to complete line training which I assume would also be the case with Virgin- the a/c endorsement is the first half of the battle. I'm pretty sure our guys ground school and sims comes to the month. About 12-15 sims but one of the 737 drivers would be able to compare that. The ground school component includes a couple of fixed based sims too.
The pace at QFs courses (744 and 767 are the only ones I've experienced) aren't 'breakneak' pace. They are certainly built around allowing you to consolidate and go a little in depth and allow you to prepare for the next sim. I think the pace could be quickened but there would be no net gain to the trainee by doing so- you wouldn't have as much time to think over what you've done and less time to prepare for whats coming. Personally, I think that would result in a less capable crew member at the end of the endorsement. May still meet minimum standards though.
Just some observations. Edited because I can't spell (or proof read) very well!
QFs pure 'endorsement' would be about a month. You then have to complete line training which I assume would also be the case with Virgin- the a/c endorsement is the first half of the battle. I'm pretty sure our guys ground school and sims comes to the month. About 12-15 sims but one of the 737 drivers would be able to compare that. The ground school component includes a couple of fixed based sims too.
The pace at QFs courses (744 and 767 are the only ones I've experienced) aren't 'breakneak' pace. They are certainly built around allowing you to consolidate and go a little in depth and allow you to prepare for the next sim. I think the pace could be quickened but there would be no net gain to the trainee by doing so- you wouldn't have as much time to think over what you've done and less time to prepare for whats coming. Personally, I think that would result in a less capable crew member at the end of the endorsement. May still meet minimum standards though.
Just some observations. Edited because I can't spell (or proof read) very well!
puff, the main difference is that Ansett taught you the ground school inhouse, while the US style endorsement is to send you the material for home study before you turn up.
Ansett:
One month ground school, either face to face or manufacturer automatic (slide show & audio tape or Computer based training), with individual subject exams. That covered the type ground school, then lectures on performance, loading systems etc that was company specific.
After that 10 endorsement sims (4 hours each) one check sim (4 hours) and one LOFT & PRM (3 hours). This gave you the endorsement in the logbook.
Then one month line training, and a check to line.
US style "fast track":
Recieve a systems book in the mail, study at home/in your own time - quoted as requiring 80 odd hours.
Two day brush/up tutorial & type exam(s). No performance lectures.
Eight sim endorsement & off you go.
Ansett:
One month ground school, either face to face or manufacturer automatic (slide show & audio tape or Computer based training), with individual subject exams. That covered the type ground school, then lectures on performance, loading systems etc that was company specific.
After that 10 endorsement sims (4 hours each) one check sim (4 hours) and one LOFT & PRM (3 hours). This gave you the endorsement in the logbook.
Then one month line training, and a check to line.
US style "fast track":
Recieve a systems book in the mail, study at home/in your own time - quoted as requiring 80 odd hours.
Two day brush/up tutorial & type exam(s). No performance lectures.
Eight sim endorsement & off you go.
Checkboard
You forgot Ansett`s one week of Link training.
Most boring experience most have had in aviation,but their theory was they wanted every candidates IF at a standard prior to commencement of sim conversion.
You forgot Ansett`s one week of Link training.
Most boring experience most have had in aviation,but their theory was they wanted every candidates IF at a standard prior to commencement of sim conversion.
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Will Virgin recruiters pass on details of the course when and if required or can someone provide contact details now ?
When does reruitment start again ? Looks like the 737 will remain then hey ?
When does reruitment start again ? Looks like the 737 will remain then hey ?
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Well
I did the An endorsement and it was 8 day ground school - ie 8 days of actual school - this included from memory 2 fixed base sims. Remember that there was about 5 minutes of face to face in this, it was all spiritus or whatever that thing is called...(except for the exams of course)
The endorsement was 10 x 4 hr sessions, of which 1 was fixed base the next 8 training and the last the check.
From start to finish it could have taken about 3 weeks, and thats with days off etc.... Sim schedules make it difficult to get sessions that allow the training to be done that quickly - you might get 2 sessions in a row and then have 2 days off.
The Ansett sim is a clunker. You discover this when you go and fly either of the 2 QF machines, or one of Mr Boeings machines in Seattle - the one I flew incidentally was originally a 300 hardball machine converted to a 300 efis machine and then finally converted to a 700. It was about as old as the AN machine but in immaculate condition and it flew very nicely. Day visuals with a good field of view (cant remember the actual numbers).
TIMMEE it is like aeroplanes - there are nice ones and there are duds - both meet the minimum standard - but some are well above it.. just because someone said it was a clunker doesn't mean that they are blaming their tools...it might just be that it is a clunker!
even the ex An boys reckon it is a piece of #@!@.
I did the An endorsement and it was 8 day ground school - ie 8 days of actual school - this included from memory 2 fixed base sims. Remember that there was about 5 minutes of face to face in this, it was all spiritus or whatever that thing is called...(except for the exams of course)
The endorsement was 10 x 4 hr sessions, of which 1 was fixed base the next 8 training and the last the check.
From start to finish it could have taken about 3 weeks, and thats with days off etc.... Sim schedules make it difficult to get sessions that allow the training to be done that quickly - you might get 2 sessions in a row and then have 2 days off.
The Ansett sim is a clunker. You discover this when you go and fly either of the 2 QF machines, or one of Mr Boeings machines in Seattle - the one I flew incidentally was originally a 300 hardball machine converted to a 300 efis machine and then finally converted to a 700. It was about as old as the AN machine but in immaculate condition and it flew very nicely. Day visuals with a good field of view (cant remember the actual numbers).
TIMMEE it is like aeroplanes - there are nice ones and there are duds - both meet the minimum standard - but some are well above it.. just because someone said it was a clunker doesn't mean that they are blaming their tools...it might just be that it is a clunker!
even the ex An boys reckon it is a piece of #@!@.
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Gnad,
737-300.
The difference may be the extra stuff that is company specific - ep's, induction, etc etc etc...
Those bits alone at virgin take the best part of a week.
It was in 93, so things may have changed, but the spiritus course for the 737 just isn't that big that it could take a whole month.
It aint that big or complicated an aeroplane!
The whole endorsement took just under a month - ground school and sim. the sim was in dribs and drabs, 10 sessions over about 16 days if I remember correctly..
737-300.
The difference may be the extra stuff that is company specific - ep's, induction, etc etc etc...
Those bits alone at virgin take the best part of a week.
It was in 93, so things may have changed, but the spiritus course for the 737 just isn't that big that it could take a whole month.
It aint that big or complicated an aeroplane!
The whole endorsement took just under a month - ground school and sim. the sim was in dribs and drabs, 10 sessions over about 16 days if I remember correctly..
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Here are the contact details:
Endorsement Training Australia.
Fax 07 3821 4764
email [email protected]
Endorsement Training Australia.
Fax 07 3821 4764
email [email protected]
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amos2 and capt146, you guys seem to be in the know;
How much are they paying the sim instructors they have advertised for? I know someone that might be interested but the money has to be worth it. Are the positions based in MEL or BNE?
Thanks.
How much are they paying the sim instructors they have advertised for? I know someone that might be interested but the money has to be worth it. Are the positions based in MEL or BNE?
Thanks.