Virgin launches advertising salvo against Qantas re: JT
7X7
Did you infer you had done both courses-AN and Wonder Course?
Reference chalk and talk versus Spritus ground course,remember AN had chalk and talk in addition to the hours of sitting in front of a screen.This investment would not have been affordable to someone after a tick in the box endorsement.
Hence a bought AN/QF endorsement may not be the same depth as the standard.
My question has always been in reference to the lowest common denominator.Why has CASA permitted such a contrast in endorsement standards?
Would the lowest common denominator or average candidate pass a QF endorsement check after a 10 day Wonder conversion?
10 days versus two months?QF/AN candidates had very good,almost unlimited,accesss to training infrastructure.Encouraged to do personal simulator sessions and review their ground conversion.Some of the super enthusiastic had almost as much personal sim time as that allocated in conversion.Failure rate still about %15-attributed to the jump from GA to the airlines or attitude.
Did former Australian airlines have it wrong?Has Virgin Blue got it right?We can compare the cost of the investment by QF/AN as opposed to Virgin`s lack of.Comparing lowest common denominators would be too heated for this forum.
QF training is expensive.If CASA and Virgin Blue are correct maybe even unneccessary.Millions could be saved by taking Virgin`s lead!Perhaps a QF committee could be formed to investigate this,present it`s findings to shareholders,or publish it in national newspaper advertisements.
Did you infer you had done both courses-AN and Wonder Course?
Reference chalk and talk versus Spritus ground course,remember AN had chalk and talk in addition to the hours of sitting in front of a screen.This investment would not have been affordable to someone after a tick in the box endorsement.
Hence a bought AN/QF endorsement may not be the same depth as the standard.
My question has always been in reference to the lowest common denominator.Why has CASA permitted such a contrast in endorsement standards?
Would the lowest common denominator or average candidate pass a QF endorsement check after a 10 day Wonder conversion?
10 days versus two months?QF/AN candidates had very good,almost unlimited,accesss to training infrastructure.Encouraged to do personal simulator sessions and review their ground conversion.Some of the super enthusiastic had almost as much personal sim time as that allocated in conversion.Failure rate still about %15-attributed to the jump from GA to the airlines or attitude.
Did former Australian airlines have it wrong?Has Virgin Blue got it right?We can compare the cost of the investment by QF/AN as opposed to Virgin`s lack of.Comparing lowest common denominators would be too heated for this forum.
QF training is expensive.If CASA and Virgin Blue are correct maybe even unneccessary.Millions could be saved by taking Virgin`s lead!Perhaps a QF committee could be formed to investigate this,present it`s findings to shareholders,or publish it in national newspaper advertisements.
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Gnads get off your high horse for a moment will you. For one, the US 737 conversion isn't 10 days inclusive of ground school. When I did the wonder course 16 months ago we did 7 sim sessions in 7 days and let me tell you the ground school wasnt done in 3 days. Secondly not everyone needs two months to do the 737 conversion, (not even those out of GA). Just because AN and QF take there time, (Im sure the whole 2 months isnt that intense either), doesn't mean that it is the ONLY way it can/should be done. If the US conversion is good enough for the thousands of 73 drivers in the states then why is it such a sham in your eyes if Australian pilots do it.
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Bugsmasha, I did the AN 737 course and not including the one week of the link trainer doing instrument approaches, I found nearly three months was needed to get a good professional grounding on the aircraft. From memory it was three weeks ground school and I was up to midnight studying some nights. There were ten sim sessions over three weeks followed by six weeks of line training. How you could get by with less I can't imagine, and I wasn't the only one at Ansett that all that time was needed. I also had substantial regional airline experience.
Bugsmasha
To label me on a high horse would surely indicate a chip on ones shoulder.I was refering to the LCD,not you or your mates.Remembering the LCD usually breaks the chain.
Comparing US standards to ours a terrible mistake too.Are you familar with what happend after the dispute?Ask your many 89er Captains.The standard of many US pilots weened on Wonder courses questionable,risks in safety were taken until the worst were dispatched by AN/TAA.I must add those who remained very good.
I agree with the last poster,most pilots out of GA,even with extensive regional experience,worked very hard to meet the standard in that first few months,sometimes feeling time wasn`t a plenty.
I,like many others and obviously not CASA,wonder how the LCD copes with these US Wonder courses.
I do think though,in the taste or ilk of Virgin Blue,a comparison of the training investment in young pilots would make a terrific advertisement in weekend national newspapers.
To label me on a high horse would surely indicate a chip on ones shoulder.I was refering to the LCD,not you or your mates.Remembering the LCD usually breaks the chain.
Comparing US standards to ours a terrible mistake too.Are you familar with what happend after the dispute?Ask your many 89er Captains.The standard of many US pilots weened on Wonder courses questionable,risks in safety were taken until the worst were dispatched by AN/TAA.I must add those who remained very good.
I agree with the last poster,most pilots out of GA,even with extensive regional experience,worked very hard to meet the standard in that first few months,sometimes feeling time wasn`t a plenty.
I,like many others and obviously not CASA,wonder how the LCD copes with these US Wonder courses.
I do think though,in the taste or ilk of Virgin Blue,a comparison of the training investment in young pilots would make a terrific advertisement in weekend national newspapers.
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Z force your 10 sim sesions over 3 weeks was only a few hours more training than I had over 7 days,( as I stated the intensity sounds quite different between the 2 courses), and my ground school was 8 days all 12+ hours a day and up till midnight studying also. My line training went for 5 weeks compared to your 6, so not that much different. As for guys from GA needing more time on your 3 month course,well I came straight from pistons to the 73 and found the course sufficient along with the training provided by Virgin to give me a good grounding on the jet. Maybe it was the instuctors that made the difference
Gnads, no chip, just trying to enlighten you to the fact that BOTH methods work well and one is not necessarily better than the other.
Gnads, no chip, just trying to enlighten you to the fact that BOTH methods work well and one is not necessarily better than the other.
Thanks Bugsmasha,you have allayed my fears.I honestly thought only Neil Armstrong could come up to speed on a 737 in ten days.
Have talked to current VB pilots,the experienced guys-exCRJ CX etc,who mentioned it was a tough way to go about a conversion,especially the final check,where they have about 24 hours to get up to speed on VB procedures,though they mentioned allowances made.
Have talked to current VB pilots,the experienced guys-exCRJ CX etc,who mentioned it was a tough way to go about a conversion,especially the final check,where they have about 24 hours to get up to speed on VB procedures,though they mentioned allowances made.
