The Insidious Trouble At Virgin Blue
PPruNaholic!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Buckinghamshire
Age: 61
Posts: 1,615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jeez! Sounds like some people just don't have enough in their lives to COMPLAIN about!
No safety isues here - just a loud mouthed passenger, probably pissed. I travel regularly on European & long-haul routes with BA and Virgin from LHR and this sort of thing happens sometimes. It also happens occasionally on trains and even, I believe, buses.
Get a life.
No safety isues here - just a loud mouthed passenger, probably pissed. I travel regularly on European & long-haul routes with BA and Virgin from LHR and this sort of thing happens sometimes. It also happens occasionally on trains and even, I believe, buses.
Get a life.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
andy your obviously not paying attention to the real issue at hand. What we are all getting at is how the people in the cabin are trained to deal with this, or in fact the " lack of ". The fact that VB are not hiring capable people and are solely looks motivated rather than safety motivated.
Evertonian
Andy. I'm sorry, but I think it can be considered a matter of no small importance. The Tech Crew rely on the Cabin crew to maintain safety in the cabin. They must be vigilant & alert at all times. Now, I know she was just a loudmouth, but she was a serious distraction to the crew & obviously other pax.
Apart from all of the crews other duties, they must maintain control of the cabin.
Apart from all of the crews other duties, they must maintain control of the cabin.
Delay? What delay?
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: London, England
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When easyjet started operating in 1995(ish), there was a great deal of concern raised about the safety ability of the in flight attendants. These concerns were raised in my opinion, because people assumed that a low-cost operator, trying to emulate the Southwest approach to customer care (ie a bit less formal) woudl not therefore be employing the right sort of people. The easyjet reaction to this was to make sure that the cabin crew strictly enforced all the safety elements of their job, and emphasised that to the passengers, (I was once told to put my paperback book either in the overhead locker or under the seat in fornt of me!). Anyway peerhaps this is what is happening at VB, (I have no personal experience with VB, so no axe to grind), and all that is required is more visible proof that the FAs are focused on flight safety.
PPruNaholic!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Buckinghamshire
Age: 61
Posts: 1,615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi guys,
It still doesn't really sound like there was a clear safety issue to me. The flight crew were not endangered or encumbered from what I have read, and nor were other passengers endangered - although they obviously may have been annoyed, which is a different thing.
It seems that people somehow object to the polite tone and (perhaps false) smiley visage of the VB cabin crew... umm, why?
Low cost airlines have revolutionised the business here in the Europe. Its not all good of course, but look at the success of Easyjet, RyanAir et al. These operations are where the growth is coming from in the industry - and that's gotta be good for all of us in the long run, hasn't it? Why keep sniping at these operators? Tall poppy syndrome?
It still doesn't really sound like there was a clear safety issue to me. The flight crew were not endangered or encumbered from what I have read, and nor were other passengers endangered - although they obviously may have been annoyed, which is a different thing.
It seems that people somehow object to the polite tone and (perhaps false) smiley visage of the VB cabin crew... umm, why?
Low cost airlines have revolutionised the business here in the Europe. Its not all good of course, but look at the success of Easyjet, RyanAir et al. These operations are where the growth is coming from in the industry - and that's gotta be good for all of us in the long run, hasn't it? Why keep sniping at these operators? Tall poppy syndrome?
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Wybacrik
Posts: 1,190
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
23 posts on this subject and 9 of you see nothing wrong whatsoever with the ignorant, boorish, loudmouth, foulmouth behaviour of a drugged out tart!
That's 40%! I only hope the 9 of you are not airline pilots because if you are I can only presume that you take the same casual attitude towards airmanship!
That's 40%! I only hope the 9 of you are not airline pilots because if you are I can only presume that you take the same casual attitude towards airmanship!
PPruNaholic!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Buckinghamshire
Age: 61
Posts: 1,615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
amos2 - get off your high horse mate! Where do I say that there was "nothing wrong whatsoever with the ignorant, boorish, loudmouth, foulmouth behaviour of a drugged out tart! ". I said I don't see how it was a safety problem, from what has been described - it may be a social problem, but then many of us might have some of those 
druckmefunk: a) like your handle b) sensible post - good points, well made IMHO.
Enjoy your evening everyone - its time for work here now...
druckmefunk: a) like your handle
b) sensible post - good points, well made IMHO.Enjoy your evening everyone - its time for work here now...
Last edited by Aussie Andy; 29th May 2002 at 09:08.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Over 'ere
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't see this as the place to whinge about one pax on one flight - complain to the boss of the company (DJ in this instance), not us. What are we supposed to do about it? What are we likely to accomplish that the "Complaints Department" will not? Wow, some pretty highbrow assessments amongst the replies. Was is all really worth so much effort?
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As cabin crew working for a completely separate company, I have to ask, if she was intoxicated, why was she allowed either to board, or to remain on board if it wasn't picked up at the gate?
In my training I was told that intoxicated pax aren't allowed on board the aircraft AT ALL...
In my training I was told that intoxicated pax aren't allowed on board the aircraft AT ALL...
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 40
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
While it may not have appeared to have been a dangerous situation at the time it appears that it could have become a dangerous situation very quickly. Arent cabin crew trained to ID potentially dangerous situations and defuse them before they get to that stage?? From how i read it, the cabin crew didnt do anything that could have prevented a dangerous situation arising and they were fortunate in that nothing happened.
My 2 cents worth
Any flight attendants from any airline care to comment on the issue and/or training???
My 2 cents worth
Any flight attendants from any airline care to comment on the issue and/or training???
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Woomera
Moderator
posted 29th May 2002 02:45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kaptin M
I see we are in heated agreement. "
Seriously speaking, I believe that Kaptin M should be made a moderator of this Forum !!
Moderator
posted 29th May 2002 02:45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kaptin M
I see we are in heated agreement. "
Seriously speaking, I believe that Kaptin M should be made a moderator of this Forum !!
Sadly I don't think he has enough spare time to post much these days, let alone moderate!!!!!!!
Evertonian
GOOD GRIEF!!!
First it's a negative post about DJ & now they want Kaptin M to be a moderator!!!
We had better get this padlocked before it's out of control!!!!
First it's a negative post about DJ & now they want Kaptin M to be a moderator!!!
We had better get this padlocked before it's out of control!!!!
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CAR 256AA Offensive and disorderly behaviour
A person in an aircraft must not behave in an offensive and disorderly manner.
Penalty: 50 penalty units
It is the cabins crews job along with the Captain to ensure the CAR's are complied with for the comfort and safety of all the other passengers,end of story.
A person in an aircraft must not behave in an offensive and disorderly manner.
Penalty: 50 penalty units
It is the cabins crews job along with the Captain to ensure the CAR's are complied with for the comfort and safety of all the other passengers,end of story.
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Australia
Posts: 413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have to agree that IF, and I emphasise the IF, this lady was as bad as described then she should have been delt with a little more sternly than she was. I too disagree that her behavior was a safety related issue but she was APPARENTLY behaving in an offensive manner and that has to be delt with. Now before all you cabin crew experts out there go off bagging the VB cabin crew lets consider just a few points. The cabin crew trainers at VB are all very experienced cabin crew. The training managers that construct the course curiculum have years of experience from outside VB and in many cases more so than the trainers at NJS and Impulse. I have known them for years myself. As is the case at most airlines the cabin crew we hire have for the most part no prior experience at flight attendants. Some however do and this would not be any different than QF, AN when it was around and NJS or Impulse. So there is no basis there for critisising the VB cabin crew. There is also a very flimsy, at best, argument that age is any factor in a persons ability to be a good flight attendant, or pilot for that matter. And God knows there are young pilots out there excersising all those responsibilties at the tender young age of something less that 25 years old! Thirdly, there is not going to be any class of 90 flight attendants at VB. There will be three classes of 30 but that is entirely different and each class will be run by the normal team of trainers. VB like everyone has its audits from CASA. On the last audit the flight attendant department came out with a completely clean bill of health. Is that the case at NJS of QF? VB was independantly audited about six months ago on behalf of United airlines. There were some issues to be addressed as there always will be at any airline. However the wet drill which was observed was rated as the best this gentleman had ever seen, and he see's a few. This excersise was all part of the EP's program at VB and is a reasonable reflection on the quality of the training afforded to all of our staff. It's not perfect but it ain't bad either. Just because Joe Bloggs doesn't get the impression a crew member would be competant in an emergency doesn't mean they are incompetant. It doesn't mean they are either but the point is rather moot at best. All of our staff under go the same recurrent training as any airline and the standards are just as high as anywhere else. Yes VB do put a lot emphasis on how our staff appear in the cabin. We hire people for their personalities and we expect them to use those personalities on the job. But belive it or not one can have a personality AND do a job at the same time. There will always be the few who don't like this or that about an airline. It happens at VB and it happens at QF...a lot..and it happens at NJS and it will happen anywhere. Bit deal.
Back to the original gripe. Do you know that the Captain was or was not informed? As I said, I agree this passenger should have been reined in and told to cool it. But I doubt VB are the only ones to get this type on board and I am damned sure VB are not the only airline to let someone dribble on for the entire flight without taking action. For the record the point will be raised in the next training class I happen to run. Maybe we can equip the crew with bang sticks as an added measure to ensure compliance at all times. Lucas brasi....how would you know what the flight attendants did to difuse the situation? I haven't seen one post here from a flight attendant that was there. How do you know that this lady was not refused any alcoholic drinks which is about all you can do once airborne. Crew are taught at all carriers that I know of to not inflame a situation with unnecessary agression until that becomes the only coarse of action. How do any of you know how this passenger was not dealt with on arrival by the VB ground staff and spoken to THEN as opposed to aggrivating the matter while on board. Perhaps the crew did use their better judgement in that respect. How would you know if you weren't there. And we all know just how good an "eyewitness" account is in this game especially one that is not an aviation "expert". Bag away people, but surely you can gather some better facts than the ones you have. Some of you pilot types here doing the bagging of VB crew want to consider just how the flying public would feel flying with you if they could see your last sim session! I have seen lots of them as well from all over the world and not to many of us would want to be judged on those performances I assure you. Let those who are perfect in this forum cast the stones..........
Back to the original gripe. Do you know that the Captain was or was not informed? As I said, I agree this passenger should have been reined in and told to cool it. But I doubt VB are the only ones to get this type on board and I am damned sure VB are not the only airline to let someone dribble on for the entire flight without taking action. For the record the point will be raised in the next training class I happen to run. Maybe we can equip the crew with bang sticks as an added measure to ensure compliance at all times. Lucas brasi....how would you know what the flight attendants did to difuse the situation? I haven't seen one post here from a flight attendant that was there. How do you know that this lady was not refused any alcoholic drinks which is about all you can do once airborne. Crew are taught at all carriers that I know of to not inflame a situation with unnecessary agression until that becomes the only coarse of action. How do any of you know how this passenger was not dealt with on arrival by the VB ground staff and spoken to THEN as opposed to aggrivating the matter while on board. Perhaps the crew did use their better judgement in that respect. How would you know if you weren't there. And we all know just how good an "eyewitness" account is in this game especially one that is not an aviation "expert". Bag away people, but surely you can gather some better facts than the ones you have. Some of you pilot types here doing the bagging of VB crew want to consider just how the flying public would feel flying with you if they could see your last sim session! I have seen lots of them as well from all over the world and not to many of us would want to be judged on those performances I assure you. Let those who are perfect in this forum cast the stones..........
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Sydney
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sprucegoose,
Your making me real nervous,I`m flying with VB in a few days.
Last week you mentioned the AN sim a heap of junk,I know it`s reputation for being difficult to fly but sounds like a workman and his tools.
Re-reading your last paragraph is scathing.You wouldn`t like to be judged by the travelling public on your last sim?
Recently had a choice of travel between CX and Air China;paid the extra and travelled CX.
You have me thinking now Spruce,especially about my return travel.
Spruce,you should leave the VB PR to others,you leave an impression of a budjet airline,not Australias Number Two.
Your making me real nervous,I`m flying with VB in a few days.
Last week you mentioned the AN sim a heap of junk,I know it`s reputation for being difficult to fly but sounds like a workman and his tools.
Re-reading your last paragraph is scathing.You wouldn`t like to be judged by the travelling public on your last sim?
Recently had a choice of travel between CX and Air China;paid the extra and travelled CX.
You have me thinking now Spruce,especially about my return travel.
Spruce,you should leave the VB PR to others,you leave an impression of a budjet airline,not Australias Number Two.