Working Overseas
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Working Overseas
It seems that over the past few years it is getting harder to find work overseas for Australian pilots.
To the many companies I have applied for work, the ones who took the time out to get back to me had somehow or another said something along the lines of these couple of letters:
Dear Mr.$$$$$$:
We are in receipt of your resume regarding employment with Air Jamaica.
Unfortunately, we are only employing Jamaican citizens or CONTRACT CAPTAINS
who are qualified on type that we fly - A320 and A321. However, there is a
'hiring freeze' now in force.
We thank you for your interest in Air Jamaica.
Yours sincerely,
Captain Ludlow Johnson
Manager, Crew Administration
Dear Mr. $$$$$,
We acknowledge receipt of your e-mail, in which you expressed your desires of being employed by our Company as a Pilot.
We regret to inform you that for the next 02 to 03 years we will not be in a position to offer any Pilot Positions due to a localisation programme of all our posts with Seychellois Nationals.
May we take this opportunity to thank you for your interest shown in our Company and wish you all the best in your future undertakings.
Thanking you.
Yours sincerely
R YOUNG (Capt.)
CHIEF PILOT
DOMESTIC FLIGHT OPERATIONS
AIR SEYCHELLES
To the many companies I have applied for work, the ones who took the time out to get back to me had somehow or another said something along the lines of these couple of letters:
Dear Mr.$$$$$$:
We are in receipt of your resume regarding employment with Air Jamaica.
Unfortunately, we are only employing Jamaican citizens or CONTRACT CAPTAINS
who are qualified on type that we fly - A320 and A321. However, there is a
'hiring freeze' now in force.
We thank you for your interest in Air Jamaica.
Yours sincerely,
Captain Ludlow Johnson
Manager, Crew Administration
Dear Mr. $$$$$,
We acknowledge receipt of your e-mail, in which you expressed your desires of being employed by our Company as a Pilot.
We regret to inform you that for the next 02 to 03 years we will not be in a position to offer any Pilot Positions due to a localisation programme of all our posts with Seychellois Nationals.
May we take this opportunity to thank you for your interest shown in our Company and wish you all the best in your future undertakings.
Thanking you.
Yours sincerely
R YOUNG (Capt.)
CHIEF PILOT
DOMESTIC FLIGHT OPERATIONS
AIR SEYCHELLES
Last edited by Mark CRUISE; 22nd May 2002 at 03:47.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
I'm pretty sure the list of o/s countries where Aussie pilots are NOT working would be far shorter than to try to name the many places where they are.
And when you DO find an operator who IS employing, expect him to want qualifications you don't have!
And when you DO find an operator who IS employing, expect him to want qualifications you don't have!
The difficulty you describe is well known to those of us trying to secure a position overseas...............but bear in mind the fact that Aussie operators provide similar responses to non-Australian pilots seeking positions here.
Whilst this is a very international business, parochialism is still very strong among Chief Pilots............especially if they are Jamaican/Seychelle/Mauritian nationals. Most Australian Chief pilots would tell you that any resumes they receive from foreigners go straight to the "circular file"; foreign operators treat applications from Aussies in much the same manner. In my humble experience, unless you can demonstrate some familiarity with the country you are seeking employment in, or offer some qualification or skill that provides a compelling reason to employ you, your application will go straight in the bin.
I am not suggesting this is right, but having worked in a couple of foreign countries myself I grudgingly admit that qualified nationals should be given first preference, just as they are in Australia. "Qualified" means different things to different Chief Pilots, but realistically most recognise that a local is a better bet to stay long-term than an Aussie.
Whilst seeking a job overseas is never easy, your nationality should be a long way down the list of considerations. I currently have right of abode in 2 other countries, but cannot get employment in either of them, nor in Australia (where I am a citizen).
I am sympathetic to your problem, but if a foreigner gained employment in Oz ahead of me, I would be the first to contact my local politician.
Don't despair though; you will eventually find something.
Whilst this is a very international business, parochialism is still very strong among Chief Pilots............especially if they are Jamaican/Seychelle/Mauritian nationals. Most Australian Chief pilots would tell you that any resumes they receive from foreigners go straight to the "circular file"; foreign operators treat applications from Aussies in much the same manner. In my humble experience, unless you can demonstrate some familiarity with the country you are seeking employment in, or offer some qualification or skill that provides a compelling reason to employ you, your application will go straight in the bin.
I am not suggesting this is right, but having worked in a couple of foreign countries myself I grudgingly admit that qualified nationals should be given first preference, just as they are in Australia. "Qualified" means different things to different Chief Pilots, but realistically most recognise that a local is a better bet to stay long-term than an Aussie.
Whilst seeking a job overseas is never easy, your nationality should be a long way down the list of considerations. I currently have right of abode in 2 other countries, but cannot get employment in either of them, nor in Australia (where I am a citizen).
I am sympathetic to your problem, but if a foreigner gained employment in Oz ahead of me, I would be the first to contact my local politician.
Don't despair though; you will eventually find something.
There are certainly lots of foreign pilots working in, and coming into Australia.
Pilots are still on the Australian Immigration list, with the equal highest score level (along with IT and nurses) as in-demand occupations needed in Australia.
The door is still wide open for any pilots to come in. And, it seems no-one cares....
Pilots are still on the Australian Immigration list, with the equal highest score level (along with IT and nurses) as in-demand occupations needed in Australia.
The door is still wide open for any pilots to come in. And, it seems no-one cares....
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Thankyou guys for sharing around your information. It always helps to tell someone when you have a problem, and I have gained an extra perspective. Alpha, yes ive applied to Cathay over seven months ago, just need a job to update!! Although, it does not bother me too much, I hear competition in Cathay is Fierce? Thanks anyway guys.
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Mark,
Define an expatriate!!!!! In lamans terms it is someone who offers an organization a service that is not covered by qualified nationals, usually fetching substancial $USD reward, however when nationals are trained to do your job, you usually go home. Nationals are cheaper. You might recall the deal the Canadians had with Kendall on the CRJ's before the fall.
So if working in a third world country, that is relatively unscathed by Sept 11, on sometimes unorthodox machines, for not as much as you thing you deserve, is not for you, then I'm sorry but the line for the good airlines is pretty long.
Its like business. If the market is flooded with the same product, the industry eventually becomes stagnant. And noone makes any money. Australia was heading for a fall regardless of 9 11.
I know of many middle eastern organizations that take expatriates with relatively little heavy time, but that has all slowed too, for obvious reasons.
Be patient. If your out of work, train to do something else in the mean time, Johnny Howard won't mind. Noone can take your qual's and experience off you.
Good luck
-27
Define an expatriate!!!!! In lamans terms it is someone who offers an organization a service that is not covered by qualified nationals, usually fetching substancial $USD reward, however when nationals are trained to do your job, you usually go home. Nationals are cheaper. You might recall the deal the Canadians had with Kendall on the CRJ's before the fall.
So if working in a third world country, that is relatively unscathed by Sept 11, on sometimes unorthodox machines, for not as much as you thing you deserve, is not for you, then I'm sorry but the line for the good airlines is pretty long.
Its like business. If the market is flooded with the same product, the industry eventually becomes stagnant. And noone makes any money. Australia was heading for a fall regardless of 9 11.
I know of many middle eastern organizations that take expatriates with relatively little heavy time, but that has all slowed too, for obvious reasons.
Be patient. If your out of work, train to do something else in the mean time, Johnny Howard won't mind. Noone can take your qual's and experience off you.
Good luck
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Working overseas
Mark,
You are right it has got harder especially after recent world events which have driven our industry into a recruiting recession.
Many overseas airlines (major and Regional) had been recruiting/contracting Australian/foreign pilots as they couldn't find suitably experienced people locally (demand outstripping supply). I know this was certainly the case in Europe up until recently, but the bottom line was you needed to have a reasonable amount of experience to offer.......usually command experience and the right type rating.....or similar type on similar ops ie. RPT. The other way is to get yourself a JAA licence but you must have the right to live/work in the EU. The right to work in Europe is now much more heavily enforced due to the high no.s of unemployed in Belgium, Switzerland etc.
There probably are still oportunities in some of the 3rd world countries......but you'll find that the local pay rates in some of these places doesn't make it very attractive........like $200- 1000 per month (US)........unless you're on a contract. But as mentioned earlier contract work has all but dried up!
Hope this helps........and keep trying
Ace
You are right it has got harder especially after recent world events which have driven our industry into a recruiting recession.
Many overseas airlines (major and Regional) had been recruiting/contracting Australian/foreign pilots as they couldn't find suitably experienced people locally (demand outstripping supply). I know this was certainly the case in Europe up until recently, but the bottom line was you needed to have a reasonable amount of experience to offer.......usually command experience and the right type rating.....or similar type on similar ops ie. RPT. The other way is to get yourself a JAA licence but you must have the right to live/work in the EU. The right to work in Europe is now much more heavily enforced due to the high no.s of unemployed in Belgium, Switzerland etc.
There probably are still oportunities in some of the 3rd world countries......but you'll find that the local pay rates in some of these places doesn't make it very attractive........like $200- 1000 per month (US)........unless you're on a contract. But as mentioned earlier contract work has all but dried up!
Hope this helps........and keep trying
Ace
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Riiight... (As I raise my little finger to the edge of my mouth - Dr.Evil style :o )
So does anyone know how a work visa of any type can be obtained in the US. Don't care what kind of work as long as it's flying, I wondered if anyone knew of any, um... 'shortcuts' through the immigration system? Any temp visa's, loopholes, etc??? Really desperate to get over there for a couple of years, any help would be GREATLY appreciated!!!
Cheers Guys and Gals
So does anyone know how a work visa of any type can be obtained in the US. Don't care what kind of work as long as it's flying, I wondered if anyone knew of any, um... 'shortcuts' through the immigration system? Any temp visa's, loopholes, etc??? Really desperate to get over there for a couple of years, any help would be GREATLY appreciated!!!
Cheers Guys and Gals
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ToolTimeTwo - you are dead right - Nurses are still OK, but Pilots and IT personnel fell off Australia's "favoured" list for immigration quite some time ago.
Check the DFAT website if in doubt.
CockpitJunkie - all developing nations have a policy of "localisation" overseen by the UN and the World Bank - this is to ensure the countries develop and Aid and Loan money is used for training purposes not just to feather the nests of a small group of expatriate "tax free toursits". Each time these countries seek to employ an expatriate they must submit their request to immigration/dept labour/Aid or other agency (World Bank, ADB, UN) and be able to prove that the skills/qualifications are not available locally. They must also provide their localisation plan to show that this expatriate will provide knowledge and skills transfer while they are in the position, thus enabling the position to be localised within a designated timeframe. Once all these conditions are met, a work permit and visa may be issued and a contract offered. The same process must be followed whenever a contract is due for renewal.
I know it makes it hard for people wanting to work in these countries to gain experience etc, but no harder than we make it for overseas people to come to Australia. Unfortunately a percentage of expatriates have bled some of these smaller nations dry over the years and have walked away with great material gain and have left nothing in return.
Check the DFAT website if in doubt.
CockpitJunkie - all developing nations have a policy of "localisation" overseen by the UN and the World Bank - this is to ensure the countries develop and Aid and Loan money is used for training purposes not just to feather the nests of a small group of expatriate "tax free toursits". Each time these countries seek to employ an expatriate they must submit their request to immigration/dept labour/Aid or other agency (World Bank, ADB, UN) and be able to prove that the skills/qualifications are not available locally. They must also provide their localisation plan to show that this expatriate will provide knowledge and skills transfer while they are in the position, thus enabling the position to be localised within a designated timeframe. Once all these conditions are met, a work permit and visa may be issued and a contract offered. The same process must be followed whenever a contract is due for renewal.
I know it makes it hard for people wanting to work in these countries to gain experience etc, but no harder than we make it for overseas people to come to Australia. Unfortunately a percentage of expatriates have bled some of these smaller nations dry over the years and have walked away with great material gain and have left nothing in return.
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Why in God's name would you want to leave the most fantastic country in the world to fly an aircraft ?? is beyhond me.
If I'm not mistaken, EK is full of Aussies and it seems Fight Ops are run by Aussies, CX, SIA, I mean everywhere I go I seem to be bumping into Aussies which is the best way never to die of thurst but horrible if you're working the following day !
As to residency, well, marry a local, get the command of the local language and you'll be in the line like anyone else, citizen or not. In my outfit we've got Irish, British, a pack of Belgians, Italians, Algerians, most are EC passeport holders but if the Mrs is local and you can express yourself fluently in the local linguo you definitly have a chance.
As to marrying an american ??? I think I'd choose dancing on broken glass !
If I'm not mistaken, EK is full of Aussies and it seems Fight Ops are run by Aussies, CX, SIA, I mean everywhere I go I seem to be bumping into Aussies which is the best way never to die of thurst but horrible if you're working the following day !
As to residency, well, marry a local, get the command of the local language and you'll be in the line like anyone else, citizen or not. In my outfit we've got Irish, British, a pack of Belgians, Italians, Algerians, most are EC passeport holders but if the Mrs is local and you can express yourself fluently in the local linguo you definitly have a chance.
As to marrying an american ??? I think I'd choose dancing on broken glass !
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If I can obtain legitimate residency in Australia why shouldn't I be able to work in your country as a pilot just as you are able to work in mine if you satisfy all the criteria.
There are plenty of Australian pilots employed in the UK at a time when many British pilots are out of work, but you dont hear our British voices raised in objection.
There are plenty of Australian pilots employed in the UK at a time when many British pilots are out of work, but you dont hear our British voices raised in objection.
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Wallabie mate;
Marry an American? - Just depends on just how desperate friend Freek is.
(BTW - I didn't suggest staying married ).
At least one thing about flying in the U.S.A. - it's a positive can-do place. Even taking 09/11 into consideration, aviation is huge!.
Airline entry is quite a lot easier - at least it beats the hell out of the current situation down under;
*Wait a year after a QF interview for a sign from God.
*Desperately try and remember if you have ever met anyone who works at DJ in the hope of getting a 'mates recommendation'.
*Nothing at Air NZ for the next 100 years.
Marry an American? - Just depends on just how desperate friend Freek is.
(BTW - I didn't suggest staying married ). At least one thing about flying in the U.S.A. - it's a positive can-do place. Even taking 09/11 into consideration, aviation is huge!.
Airline entry is quite a lot easier - at least it beats the hell out of the current situation down under;
*Wait a year after a QF interview for a sign from God.
*Desperately try and remember if you have ever met anyone who works at DJ in the hope of getting a 'mates recommendation'.
*Nothing at Air NZ for the next 100 years.
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Marky,
Were you sober when you started this post? And if so, did you stay that way to the end?
Mate, you're a beautiful man but I worry about you at times. "Exploring the dimensions of my psychological effectiveness"?.
What the.......?
Were you sober when you started this post? And if so, did you stay that way to the end?
Mate, you're a beautiful man but I worry about you at times. "Exploring the dimensions of my psychological effectiveness"?.
What the.......?
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Hi 2daddies.
Just for the record, I worry about you all the times Mr Lover Lover.
I understand its not easy being a gay pilot from a gay family.
'Psychological effectiveness' -an excerpt from the 2daddies
house-of-pain dictionairy:
"Thinking up big impressive words which are not fully understood, aand then jumbling them all together to make a conversation sound rather intelligent, or explanation sound terribly more complicated than what it really is..... Just ask your ex ex ex ex girlfriend or your toyboy 'Homeboy Hakeim' from Africa!!
A daddy mac will make yah... JUMP JUMP!!
Just for the record, I worry about you all the times Mr Lover Lover.
I understand its not easy being a gay pilot from a gay family.
'Psychological effectiveness' -an excerpt from the 2daddies
house-of-pain dictionairy:
"Thinking up big impressive words which are not fully understood, aand then jumbling them all together to make a conversation sound rather intelligent, or explanation sound terribly more complicated than what it really is..... Just ask your ex ex ex ex girlfriend or your toyboy 'Homeboy Hakeim' from Africa!!
A daddy mac will make yah... JUMP JUMP!!
Last edited by Mark CRUISE; 22nd May 2002 at 03:51.