Maf ???
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Intersting reading 'bout MAF in Oz,...grew up riding in the back of a MAF 185 in the mountains of Mexico (ok ok you know what they say about the preacher's kid)..to join MAF North America, it involved a strong Christian (they consider Catholics heathens), then completing a degree in Bible studies at Moody Bible Institute in Elizabethton, Tennessee, followed by an intense mountain flying course. An A&P license was also required...pilots then sought the support of local churches, who paid their salaries, then got an assignment to some God-forsaken part of the world, flying in less than desireable conditions..(our airstrip was 275m long at 6600' MSL)...Cessna wgt&balance mattered little they had their own "scientifically" designed system...seemed to work...performance and safety margins were thin to say the least...hence the phrase "on a wing and a prayer"..the 60's era pilots were "skygods" who offered assistance to everybody and anybody anywhere, not too sure in these litigious days how things are...the only beef I have with MAF is one of their pilots talked me into learning to fly....oh dear!
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MAF,
Non commercial (yeah right) multinational ecclesistical consortium conducting rape and pillage missions in remote areas.
Just like all the other christian organisations throughout time, they sit there smug in the belief that they are right in everything they do, which of course gives them the right to smile to your face while at the same time shoving a bible fair up your exhaust pipe.
What a bunch of self righteous tossers, I thank the lord god that he created me as an atheist
amen
Non commercial (yeah right) multinational ecclesistical consortium conducting rape and pillage missions in remote areas.
Just like all the other christian organisations throughout time, they sit there smug in the belief that they are right in everything they do, which of course gives them the right to smile to your face while at the same time shoving a bible fair up your exhaust pipe.
What a bunch of self righteous tossers, I thank the lord god that he created me as an atheist
amen
Who said MAF is a non-commerical consortium?????
In Australia, "MAF is structured as a non profit organisation, incorporated under the Companies Act as a Company limited by guarantee".
Commercial operations are conducted in central and northern Australia for, and on behalf of, Aboriginal communities and airlines, where MAF provides management and staff, under contract.
More information about MAF is available at their website:
http://www.maf.org.au
In Australia, "MAF is structured as a non profit organisation, incorporated under the Companies Act as a Company limited by guarantee".
Commercial operations are conducted in central and northern Australia for, and on behalf of, Aboriginal communities and airlines, where MAF provides management and staff, under contract.
More information about MAF is available at their website:
http://www.maf.org.au
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Yet another great MAF display.
Lets say aircraft A had a gear problem and couldn't divert back to an airport with services, so elects to land. Luckily enough there is another pilot on the ground who actually HELPS identify that the gear appears to be down, so after engineering advice the aircraft lands no problems.
Now not 2 hours later listening to the ABC news I hear that a light aircraft suffered gear problems in location X. The only people to know about it were my pilot and the other pilot. So how'd the ABC find out.
Fill in the dots...
YES I should pull my head in as I don't want to get into petty games with anyone but come on guys GROW UP.
Lets say aircraft A had a gear problem and couldn't divert back to an airport with services, so elects to land. Luckily enough there is another pilot on the ground who actually HELPS identify that the gear appears to be down, so after engineering advice the aircraft lands no problems.
Now not 2 hours later listening to the ABC news I hear that a light aircraft suffered gear problems in location X. The only people to know about it were my pilot and the other pilot. So how'd the ABC find out.
Fill in the dots...
YES I should pull my head in as I don't want to get into petty games with anyone but come on guys GROW UP.
HA,
I heard some of this on BN CEN and noticed at one stage that TJI (a QF Boeing 737) was relaying comms once both aircraft were in the circuit and out of radio range.
Perhaps passengers on the QF flight were made aware of what they were doing? Just a thought...
Cheers,
TL
I heard some of this on BN CEN and noticed at one stage that TJI (a QF Boeing 737) was relaying comms once both aircraft were in the circuit and out of radio range.
Perhaps passengers on the QF flight were made aware of what they were doing? Just a thought...
Cheers,
TL
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HA,
Sorry to ruin a good story with a few facts but here they are......
* Your aircraft chose to go the aerodrome b/c he knew that there was going to be someone there (to look at the gear)
* The aircraft on the ground then relayed a whole bunch of messages to centre and was generally pretty helpful (even though according to you his company doesn't operate in the 'spirit of aviation')
* The pilot on the ground then assisted with the police getting the SES and Ambos out to the strip
* The pilot on the ground delayed their flight by about 20 mins to assist your guy with his situation.
*TJI was also involved in relaying from BN Centre and was also very helpful offering advice and the like.
* The news item hit the airwaves about an hour or so later, when the pilot in question was somewhere over the desert!!!
* The pilot in question was also quite suprised when arriving at the next community to discover that they knew all about the incident even though he hadn't told any body!!!!!
So maybe we aren't as bad you're making us out to be and some of us DO operate in the 'Spirit of Aviation' and will help out fellow aviators whereever we can.
Not saying that all your gripes are unfounded however in this case I'd say it is.
Oh and no we didn't put in a Incident Report either!!
Sorry to ruin a good story with a few facts but here they are......
* Your aircraft chose to go the aerodrome b/c he knew that there was going to be someone there (to look at the gear)
* The aircraft on the ground then relayed a whole bunch of messages to centre and was generally pretty helpful (even though according to you his company doesn't operate in the 'spirit of aviation')
* The pilot on the ground then assisted with the police getting the SES and Ambos out to the strip
* The pilot on the ground delayed their flight by about 20 mins to assist your guy with his situation.
*TJI was also involved in relaying from BN Centre and was also very helpful offering advice and the like.
* The news item hit the airwaves about an hour or so later, when the pilot in question was somewhere over the desert!!!
* The pilot in question was also quite suprised when arriving at the next community to discover that they knew all about the incident even though he hadn't told any body!!!!!
So maybe we aren't as bad you're making us out to be and some of us DO operate in the 'Spirit of Aviation' and will help out fellow aviators whereever we can.
Not saying that all your gripes are unfounded however in this case I'd say it is.
Oh and no we didn't put in a Incident Report either!!
Last edited by B-Grade Actor; 7th Jun 2002 at 10:18.
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Having bagged MAF before, I should also add that:
a. their equipment and maintenence is 100%. On the rare occasions that a heathen aircraft falls into their hands, they not only fix it but produce a report on what should (have been) done to it (SB's etc) and what it needs to get it to 'MAF standard'.
100 hourly's for MAF look like 'D' checks in heavier types
b. Their mods and STC's are smick, including the back up 'carby' in IO-520's that keep it running after the plumbing fails. If you want a good aircraft, copy the MAF mods.
The only problems I have seen with their flying are what I mentioned, which revolve around situational awareness; often not much.
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a. their equipment and maintenence is 100%. On the rare occasions that a heathen aircraft falls into their hands, they not only fix it but produce a report on what should (have been) done to it (SB's etc) and what it needs to get it to 'MAF standard'.
100 hourly's for MAF look like 'D' checks in heavier types
b. Their mods and STC's are smick, including the back up 'carby' in IO-520's that keep it running after the plumbing fails. If you want a good aircraft, copy the MAF mods.
The only problems I have seen with their flying are what I mentioned, which revolve around situational awareness; often not much.
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To MAF..
Please guys, don't use the CTAF frquencies (Nhulunbuy, Arafura, and Boucaut) as your personal chat lines. There are other aircraft using this airspace as well as you, and it doesn't take much to say "go numbers" and tune your radio to 123.45.
Just a small gripe...
Please guys, don't use the CTAF frquencies (Nhulunbuy, Arafura, and Boucaut) as your personal chat lines. There are other aircraft using this airspace as well as you, and it doesn't take much to say "go numbers" and tune your radio to 123.45.
Just a small gripe...
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As I said above I shot first and asked questions later.
I am man enough to apologise for this and realise my error, and to add thank you to the pilots concerned who helped my guy, its always unnervy when you only have 2 outa 3... THANK YOU.
I geuss I am just frustrated with the GA industry as a whole. The point is why can't we all work together? There is plenty of work to go around, we all need healthy competition to keep us on our toes. WHY NOT HELP EACH OTHER OUT?
It is not just MAF that I whinge about its other companies as well. By no way am I trying to say that we bend over backwards to help people however what goes around comes around. I had a go at Oasis a while ago, which was fundamentally to do with the attitude towards us in a small community where there was ample work for 2 operators, again why not work together?
Any way I think I have ranted and raved enough. Pilots, Operators, Aviators ahould all work together to form a pool of knowledge, after all we are ALL here to make money!!! and to enjoy our chosen career, although at times we all query why oh why do we have aviation running through our veins.
I am man enough to apologise for this and realise my error, and to add thank you to the pilots concerned who helped my guy, its always unnervy when you only have 2 outa 3... THANK YOU.
I geuss I am just frustrated with the GA industry as a whole. The point is why can't we all work together? There is plenty of work to go around, we all need healthy competition to keep us on our toes. WHY NOT HELP EACH OTHER OUT?
It is not just MAF that I whinge about its other companies as well. By no way am I trying to say that we bend over backwards to help people however what goes around comes around. I had a go at Oasis a while ago, which was fundamentally to do with the attitude towards us in a small community where there was ample work for 2 operators, again why not work together?
Any way I think I have ranted and raved enough. Pilots, Operators, Aviators ahould all work together to form a pool of knowledge, after all we are ALL here to make money!!! and to enjoy our chosen career, although at times we all query why oh why do we have aviation running through our veins.
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Agree whole heartily with your comments HA. GA would be a better place if people worked together in 'healthy competition', however I won't be holding my breath for it to happen!! Guess we're just a bit to idealistic!!
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Looking at the map on page one of this subject, I see they also operate in Russia. Converting Russian Orthodox to baptist? If you think MAF is goal orientated, wait till the Muslim equivalent starts up in competition to them.
Nunc est bibendum
Just wondering why Christian pilots are considered 'strange'? Perhaps they were although being a Christian and flying with largely non Christians, I can guarantee that there are 'strange' characters who definately fall into the latter category. The difference is is that Christians can't generalise with the same comments due to us being in the minority and therefore 'strange'.
Not having a go, just find it interesting from the rest of the comments here on the thread.
Not having a go, just find it interesting from the rest of the comments here on the thread.
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AntiChrist - Not wishing to nitpick, but isn't an athiest one who denies the existence of God. Therefore, isn't your last comment rather hypocritical or are you just confused with grammar?
Tequila Joe - Why not use the approved pilot-pilot intercommunication frequency allocated for BLW F200 (I think there is a separate one for ABV F200 128.85 but will stand corrected). Other OCAs and TCAs generally use 123.45 but the AUS FIR is slightly different.
On the subject of MAF - Strange perhaps, but then they didn't associate with us types at the "derro's" either, so we didn't get the chance to see if there were really strange or just didn't like drinking. However, from memory, their aircraft (usually C185s) were 100% + maintained and carried a few MAF-mods, which no doubt, came after the bitter learning curve of a few of their drivers spearing in and meeting their Maker well ahead of time.
Back in the late '70s, stayed overnight with a couple somewhere north of Balimo in the Western Province (can't remember the exact place due to too many bottles of bad neuron remover). Quite charming acutally. I am sure either the MAF invented the color "Missionary Brown" or the cut the best deal known to Man and God and Home Depot. You can always tell a missionary's house by that color.
Be safe out there.
Tequila Joe - Why not use the approved pilot-pilot intercommunication frequency allocated for BLW F200 (I think there is a separate one for ABV F200 128.85 but will stand corrected). Other OCAs and TCAs generally use 123.45 but the AUS FIR is slightly different.
On the subject of MAF - Strange perhaps, but then they didn't associate with us types at the "derro's" either, so we didn't get the chance to see if there were really strange or just didn't like drinking. However, from memory, their aircraft (usually C185s) were 100% + maintained and carried a few MAF-mods, which no doubt, came after the bitter learning curve of a few of their drivers spearing in and meeting their Maker well ahead of time.
Back in the late '70s, stayed overnight with a couple somewhere north of Balimo in the Western Province (can't remember the exact place due to too many bottles of bad neuron remover). Quite charming acutally. I am sure either the MAF invented the color "Missionary Brown" or the cut the best deal known to Man and God and Home Depot. You can always tell a missionary's house by that color.
Be safe out there.
One of the lasting benefits of an Anglican Grammar school education is an undying suspicion of all things having any connection with organised religion of any persuasion.
Seems like a healthy amount of suspicion might be useful protection around anything - or anyone - to do with MAF as well? At least until bona fides have been well and truly established.
I suspect MAF is going the way of all such organisations; forgetting their roots and engaging in the highly-tempting pastime of empire-building. The good people will eventually leave, form another group with much the same aims - and another schism will have been created.
Such seems to be the way of all such initially-noble endeavours.
Seems like a healthy amount of suspicion might be useful protection around anything - or anyone - to do with MAF as well? At least until bona fides have been well and truly established.
I suspect MAF is going the way of all such organisations; forgetting their roots and engaging in the highly-tempting pastime of empire-building. The good people will eventually leave, form another group with much the same aims - and another schism will have been created.
Such seems to be the way of all such initially-noble endeavours.
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Keg, they aren' t strange because they are Christians. I find then strange for similar reasons, I am sure, to your reasons for finding some of your non-christian workmates strange, they are simply, odd, not bad, just odd, which they would have been before they became Christians.
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Kev Rivkin “Some MAFheads do think that they are god's chosen ones and act accordingly, and they usually have the airmanship skills to match....”
Whoa Big-boy having been in commercial aviation for 25 years including 8 in MAF ATPL Cessna206---through--B767/LAME lighties ---through---B747, now Captain of international major Airline, worked for jet charter, 2 foreign int airlines, regional turboprop, etc I can honestly say that MAF,s training, skills, airmanship & attitudes are on par with the best and they will not put up with any bull. What guys do out in the bush has to be self regulatory to a great degree. “The thing I noticed is that they seem to stuff up navigation and radio; the bad ones don't know where they are but just send memorised radio messages anyway.” Could you really not say it is the same with any other operator or are you for some reason sensitised against MAF??
Capt. Kaikai “Memories of MAF! They were the same clowns that speared in with an Otter near Tabubil PNG, with something like "25" pax on board, and grossly overloaded, as it was later established.” You are well out of line on this one, 25 pax in a Twin-otter is nothing; I have had 12 !!!! yes 12 in Cessna 206 with DCA approved high density seating, mums & babes on laps, all weighed within limits and totally legal. “The newspaper acticle still hangs in our old ops room to this day” Yeah right! Any newspaper articles on an event that you know about is normally 90% bull s**t. please post a copy of the official DCA report, if it was true I do not believe MAF would still be operating. “I believe to show that no matter how close you think you are to God, you still can't beat him at his own game!” Agree with “not beating God at his own game”. I quite distinctly remember being told at an early training meeting that it was totally out of order and arrogant to assume anyone can buck the “laws of physics”
Chimbu chuckles “a very aggressive aviation company that, in PNG at least, charges way more than commercial rates” Cannot win can they Chimbu, you say they charge too much yet others claim “undercut, unfair,etc” When I was involved we charged exactly the same as other “commercial” operators for commercial ops which then susidised the relief/mission organisations that could not afford to pay more than the direct operating costs….
Pullpowa “ They are a callous company, for the most part they smile whilst they twist the knife...I oughta know.” Pullpowa can you elucidate your enigmatic response or would counselling be appropriate ???
Pantyripper “Maf=poofter” Can you send your female relatives over & I will show them how much of a poofter an ex-MAF pilot is ?????
”Does anyone know how many accidents maf has actually had?” Too many like all the other operators eg, Talair,Douglas et al. Only one fatal accident that I was involved in personally was the result of incompetence, and the guy killed had the same attitude as you, I remember giving him the same warning “that he could be next”. Think & ponder do we want all those sheilas crying over the “rippers” remains????
I know we all like a good whinge (yes even Aussies) but in this thread it seems we would hate for the truth to spoil a good story. It really p****s me off that having had a few beers in the past with some of you guys & fixed for free out in the bush your often ropey aircraft {mind you it got me a job years & 5000miles away, aviation is too small to burn bridges} you seem to revel in taking cheap uninformed shots at a group of decent (generally!!) individuals who may have a different but legitimate outlook on life..No doubt there are a few MAF types reading this but being on the whole gentlemen they won,t respond as the average poster. There are always cretins & incompetents in any organisation, can any of us say that we are always S**t hot & perfect ???
Give them a break…………and give me a beer .El Toro..
Whoa Big-boy having been in commercial aviation for 25 years including 8 in MAF ATPL Cessna206---through--B767/LAME lighties ---through---B747, now Captain of international major Airline, worked for jet charter, 2 foreign int airlines, regional turboprop, etc I can honestly say that MAF,s training, skills, airmanship & attitudes are on par with the best and they will not put up with any bull. What guys do out in the bush has to be self regulatory to a great degree. “The thing I noticed is that they seem to stuff up navigation and radio; the bad ones don't know where they are but just send memorised radio messages anyway.” Could you really not say it is the same with any other operator or are you for some reason sensitised against MAF??
Capt. Kaikai “Memories of MAF! They were the same clowns that speared in with an Otter near Tabubil PNG, with something like "25" pax on board, and grossly overloaded, as it was later established.” You are well out of line on this one, 25 pax in a Twin-otter is nothing; I have had 12 !!!! yes 12 in Cessna 206 with DCA approved high density seating, mums & babes on laps, all weighed within limits and totally legal. “The newspaper acticle still hangs in our old ops room to this day” Yeah right! Any newspaper articles on an event that you know about is normally 90% bull s**t. please post a copy of the official DCA report, if it was true I do not believe MAF would still be operating. “I believe to show that no matter how close you think you are to God, you still can't beat him at his own game!” Agree with “not beating God at his own game”. I quite distinctly remember being told at an early training meeting that it was totally out of order and arrogant to assume anyone can buck the “laws of physics”
Chimbu chuckles “a very aggressive aviation company that, in PNG at least, charges way more than commercial rates” Cannot win can they Chimbu, you say they charge too much yet others claim “undercut, unfair,etc” When I was involved we charged exactly the same as other “commercial” operators for commercial ops which then susidised the relief/mission organisations that could not afford to pay more than the direct operating costs….
Pullpowa “ They are a callous company, for the most part they smile whilst they twist the knife...I oughta know.” Pullpowa can you elucidate your enigmatic response or would counselling be appropriate ???
Pantyripper “Maf=poofter” Can you send your female relatives over & I will show them how much of a poofter an ex-MAF pilot is ?????
”Does anyone know how many accidents maf has actually had?” Too many like all the other operators eg, Talair,Douglas et al. Only one fatal accident that I was involved in personally was the result of incompetence, and the guy killed had the same attitude as you, I remember giving him the same warning “that he could be next”. Think & ponder do we want all those sheilas crying over the “rippers” remains????
I know we all like a good whinge (yes even Aussies) but in this thread it seems we would hate for the truth to spoil a good story. It really p****s me off that having had a few beers in the past with some of you guys & fixed for free out in the bush your often ropey aircraft {mind you it got me a job years & 5000miles away, aviation is too small to burn bridges} you seem to revel in taking cheap uninformed shots at a group of decent (generally!!) individuals who may have a different but legitimate outlook on life..No doubt there are a few MAF types reading this but being on the whole gentlemen they won,t respond as the average poster. There are always cretins & incompetents in any organisation, can any of us say that we are always S**t hot & perfect ???
Give them a break…………and give me a beer .El Toro..
Last edited by toro; 10th Jun 2002 at 00:58.