Southern safety fears
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Southern safety fears
Told by a mate in Southern that at a pilot meeting yesterday they were informed that the QF safety department has placed Southern on a high level safety watch. This apparently is due to the level of anger and stress that the crews have at the way QF is handling the closure of the Southern operations. Have also heard that CASA will be doing a safety analysis on them shortly and if they are not happy the Southern AOC may be suspended.
Surely QF must now act very quickly to sort the whole mess out. If a Southern aircraft (God forbid) should be involved in an accident or serious incident whilst under the safety watch, QF would be hung out to dry by the courts if they have failed to take prompt action to remove the safety hazard. Macarthur and Kumar need their butts kicked by Dixon on this one.
Surely QF must now act very quickly to sort the whole mess out. If a Southern aircraft (God forbid) should be involved in an accident or serious incident whilst under the safety watch, QF would be hung out to dry by the courts if they have failed to take prompt action to remove the safety hazard. Macarthur and Kumar need their butts kicked by Dixon on this one.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This has been incredibly painful to watch - the rumours that Southern were to go have been around since last October when the Launceston base was relocated to Canberra. Jets to NJS and Dash 8s to Eastern.
Six months later and the rumours have become reality and still no decisions. There are 146 Captains who might end up as FOs on the Dash 8. Just thinking about a 70% drop in income is enough to make the blood pressure rise.
Pilots take on an enormous amount of responsibility when they step into the cockpit and take control of a plane. If something were to happen, Qantas would have blood on their hands for not providing a safe working environment. And Mr Dixon should note that as far as the travelling public are concerned, that red kangaroo on the tail means it's Qantas, regardless of who's operating the service.
Six months later and the rumours have become reality and still no decisions. There are 146 Captains who might end up as FOs on the Dash 8. Just thinking about a 70% drop in income is enough to make the blood pressure rise.
Pilots take on an enormous amount of responsibility when they step into the cockpit and take control of a plane. If something were to happen, Qantas would have blood on their hands for not providing a safe working environment. And Mr Dixon should note that as far as the travelling public are concerned, that red kangaroo on the tail means it's Qantas, regardless of who's operating the service.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 756
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's rather morbid talk....
I take your point. I don't know any Southern people myself but I am sure that, even in this environment, their professionalism will take hold and everyone will be doing things safely. Terrible news indeed for all affected and there are some definate worries ahead for them. I just think it an insult to their abilities and intellegence that you people would even suggest something bad happening.
I take your point. I don't know any Southern people myself but I am sure that, even in this environment, their professionalism will take hold and everyone will be doing things safely. Terrible news indeed for all affected and there are some definate worries ahead for them. I just think it an insult to their abilities and intellegence that you people would even suggest something bad happening.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Wellington
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ditzyboy,
that 'professionalism will take a hold' thing is extremely dangerous. Leaning on the sense of professionalism when under emotional stress leads to more frequent denial of error prone performance which leads to more frequent failure to take remedial steps.
The truly professional approach is to be explicit that 'under this set of circumstances my perfomance is likely to be impaired, and therefore I must adjust my practices - especially my CRM practices - accordingly. I must also know when to cry halt.'
But maybe that is what you meant by professionalism. If so, then i fully agree.
that 'professionalism will take a hold' thing is extremely dangerous. Leaning on the sense of professionalism when under emotional stress leads to more frequent denial of error prone performance which leads to more frequent failure to take remedial steps.
The truly professional approach is to be explicit that 'under this set of circumstances my perfomance is likely to be impaired, and therefore I must adjust my practices - especially my CRM practices - accordingly. I must also know when to cry halt.'
But maybe that is what you meant by professionalism. If so, then i fully agree.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: bumf*ck, idaho
Posts: 447
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And how is this different to the AN guys flying around while their professional lives were in turmoil?
They are big boys and girls, I am sure they will manage it.
If they can't, they have an obligation under the CARs not to fly if they are not fit.
Sonny.
They are big boys and girls, I am sure they will manage it.
If they can't, they have an obligation under the CARs not to fly if they are not fit.
Sonny.
I was one of those "Ansett boys with professtional life in toil.". I took a day off towards the end due to stress, and when I flew my last day it took EVERY OUNCE of concentration to do the job any where near properly.
To sugest that extreme stress with regard to employment does not effect a pilots performance is to subscribe to some out-dated, macho view that we're all superhuman. An outfit like Qanta gives much lip service to things like CRM and Human Factors, then pulls stunts like this when it saves dollars and cents.
The Bankok incident revealed deficiencies in CRM and training which had long been telegraphed, but were ignored at the alter of the almighty buck.
I hope the Southern pilots can hold it together through this, but there is no question QFs attitude eats into the margins.
To sugest that extreme stress with regard to employment does not effect a pilots performance is to subscribe to some out-dated, macho view that we're all superhuman. An outfit like Qanta gives much lip service to things like CRM and Human Factors, then pulls stunts like this when it saves dollars and cents.
The Bankok incident revealed deficiencies in CRM and training which had long been telegraphed, but were ignored at the alter of the almighty buck.
I hope the Southern pilots can hold it together through this, but there is no question QFs attitude eats into the margins.
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Oz
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No comment from me, this is from the ABC site at http://www.abc.net.au/news/australia...4apr2002-1.htm
This what it says.
"QUOTE"
Posted: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:34 AEST
CASA has Qantas regional restructure concerns
Australia's aviation watchdog is concerned that stress-related safety problems may arise as Qantas restructures its regional airlines.
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) has met Qantas to ensure stress among employees does not jeopardise safety.
Qantas has confirmed jobs will be lost as services are streamlined, but has not revealed how many.
CASA spokesman Peter Gibson says action will be taken if safety issues arise.
"We need everybody to be focusing on their jobs - the pilots on flying, the cabin crew on maintaining safety in the aircraft and the engineers on maintaining the aircraft on the ground," he said.
"Once they take their minds off the job, there is the potential for a safety problem."
"UNQUOTE"
ding
This what it says.
"QUOTE"
Posted: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:34 AEST
CASA has Qantas regional restructure concerns
Australia's aviation watchdog is concerned that stress-related safety problems may arise as Qantas restructures its regional airlines.
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) has met Qantas to ensure stress among employees does not jeopardise safety.
Qantas has confirmed jobs will be lost as services are streamlined, but has not revealed how many.
CASA spokesman Peter Gibson says action will be taken if safety issues arise.
"We need everybody to be focusing on their jobs - the pilots on flying, the cabin crew on maintaining safety in the aircraft and the engineers on maintaining the aircraft on the ground," he said.
"Once they take their minds off the job, there is the potential for a safety problem."
"UNQUOTE"
ding
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can any of the Southern guys/gals provide an update on this situation? We hear that Qantas has offered the F/A's just about every option for ongoing employment under the sun, including mainline and Impulse, yet the pilots have been given no firm options at all for their careers. What was the outcome of the CASA meeting? Surely the lack of direction for the pilots and its associated stress must be considered a safety risk? Keep your chins up, hopefully some sense will start to prevail in all this.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Living next door to Alan
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is probably the most recent from Qrewroom, Slim. No guarantee as to its accuracy (with no disrespect to its originator).
As for the finer details as to seniority, bases etc. Who knows?
So far QF have told us that all pilots will be integrated into Eastern. The Dash pilots immediately, but the 146's will be phased out over 18 mths. One goes in OCT 02 and the others in Nov 03 with the pilots being retrained back onto the Dash as they are no longer needed.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: aust
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well Slim...the news is..there is no news.......Yep..F/A's have been offered Qantas mainline or Impulse....ALL of Southerns F/A's....including the ones still line training.
Pilots have met with Regional Airlines Manager to voice their concerns and "requested" options for their futures......meeting again next Wednesday to hear his offer..????
Southern have some 146 Capts on approx $110,000 pa that will be reassigned as Dash Capts on $80000 pa.....However SOME 146 Capts will be reassigned as Dash F/O's on $45,000...Dash Capts looking at Dash F/O slots........and some Dash F/O's redundant....That is of course if the BIP ( Business IMPROVEMENT Plan) goes ahead as has been presented.
To say the Southern Pilot group is an unhappy camp would be a gross understatment
To this day there have been NO offers of anything.....All this in a year when Qantas is on track to make $500 Million profit and has 85% of the market.....Pure corporate GREED
Pilots have met with Regional Airlines Manager to voice their concerns and "requested" options for their futures......meeting again next Wednesday to hear his offer..????
Southern have some 146 Capts on approx $110,000 pa that will be reassigned as Dash Capts on $80000 pa.....However SOME 146 Capts will be reassigned as Dash F/O's on $45,000...Dash Capts looking at Dash F/O slots........and some Dash F/O's redundant....That is of course if the BIP ( Business IMPROVEMENT Plan) goes ahead as has been presented.
To say the Southern Pilot group is an unhappy camp would be a gross understatment
To this day there have been NO offers of anything.....All this in a year when Qantas is on track to make $500 Million profit and has 85% of the market.....Pure corporate GREED
The position of the AFAP is that there will be no forced redundancies. The message I get is that this may well now be the position of QF(?).
This week has seen the appointment of a well known former QF pilot and now aviation consultant to advise Kumar on matters relating to this mess.
I think most would welcome this move. At least there is now an 'expert' there to provide advice, provided of course that it is taken.
As pilot seniority and integration issues have not yet seriously been considered nor openly discussed I suggest that there will not be an overnight decision. There is as yet no structure for the 'new' regional operation, which one might have thought would have been completed early in the project? No doubt all the regionals including Impulse will be involved at some stage.
This week has seen the appointment of a well known former QF pilot and now aviation consultant to advise Kumar on matters relating to this mess.
I think most would welcome this move. At least there is now an 'expert' there to provide advice, provided of course that it is taken.
As pilot seniority and integration issues have not yet seriously been considered nor openly discussed I suggest that there will not be an overnight decision. There is as yet no structure for the 'new' regional operation, which one might have thought would have been completed early in the project? No doubt all the regionals including Impulse will be involved at some stage.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Baldman, I hope you guys are getting some serious legal advice. I cannot believe that QF can get away with forcing 146 Capt's to take a $65,000 a year pay drop when they are turning a profit, expanding and employing people off the street as pilots. You are being seriously shafted and it is a bloody disgrace. Hopefully the ex QF guy Triadic talks about can see how senseless it would be to down-train jet guys back to the Dash when they could easily be uptrained into mainline. I know I would have my nose seriously out of joint if I was forced to take such a pay cut, knowing that a cadet in mainline as an S/O will be making $100,000 18 months after getting a mainline job. Qantas, you need to take a long hard look at yourselves. So much for Dixon sprouting on the Sunday program that Qantas are an 'ethical airline'. What a load of horses**t.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: aust
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yep......legal advise will be sought this week......and hopefully the "Man" Triadic talks about might help somewhat...might..!!..we all hope so.
As far as Mr Dixon and his "Ethical Airline" is concerned.....HA
Next meeting this Wednesday.....lets see whats on the table at that point...my guess..NOT MUCH..!!!
Keep you all informed.
As far as Mr Dixon and his "Ethical Airline" is concerned.....HA
Next meeting this Wednesday.....lets see whats on the table at that point...my guess..NOT MUCH..!!!
Keep you all informed.
