Southern....GONE...!
I would suggest that "if" QF "offer" any positions to anyone, they will all have to go thru the established recruitment process for all new hires.
QF hang their hat on the process and are unlikely to change or set any new precedents.
All the unions have a bit of work to do yet
QF hang their hat on the process and are unlikely to change or set any new precedents.
All the unions have a bit of work to do yet
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Abeam Alice Springs
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Certainly coomacowboy is correct in part of his post, but the conditions and expectations when the vote to which he refers was carried out is now somewhat different and is being driven not by what types might be available but plain old job security. You can bet that there will not be any choice now and there will be one QantasLink list as a result.
The previous comments re MEL handling has been addressed by PimpDaddy. Obviously you need to talk to the Melbourne staff more to find out how that port works. Sure it has its share of problems, but they are obviously different to SYD – and you have to expect that.
I think that there are many things that both Eastern & Southern (and Sunstate) staff has to consider. First and foremost, like it or not, we are now having to seriously consider how we will work TOGETHER. There are differing cultures and work practices that must be addressed. This will not be an easy project and it is clearly obvious that QF have seriously underestimated the size of the task and the way that any changes might be achieved and the timeline needed to accomplish them. Goss is that until last week they had not considered any change management or risk assessment program!
Nobody is immune to having to change the way they do business, nor do they have a monopoly on the way tasks are undertaken. What must be achieved in this is that the most safe and (cost)efficient way of doing any one task must be examined and if necessary someone may have to change the way they do business as a result. And believe me there are many tasks that SAA, EAA & SSA achieve by different procedures and work practices. These all need to be brought into line over time and of course any duplication of effort eliminated.
Slanging off or having a moan because you are faced with something different is not the way to tackle these changes. We must be positive about the change because one way or another, sooner or later, we are going to be part of it.
It is not a case of "us" and "them". It is all "us".
Get used to it.
The previous comments re MEL handling has been addressed by PimpDaddy. Obviously you need to talk to the Melbourne staff more to find out how that port works. Sure it has its share of problems, but they are obviously different to SYD – and you have to expect that.
I think that there are many things that both Eastern & Southern (and Sunstate) staff has to consider. First and foremost, like it or not, we are now having to seriously consider how we will work TOGETHER. There are differing cultures and work practices that must be addressed. This will not be an easy project and it is clearly obvious that QF have seriously underestimated the size of the task and the way that any changes might be achieved and the timeline needed to accomplish them. Goss is that until last week they had not considered any change management or risk assessment program!
Nobody is immune to having to change the way they do business, nor do they have a monopoly on the way tasks are undertaken. What must be achieved in this is that the most safe and (cost)efficient way of doing any one task must be examined and if necessary someone may have to change the way they do business as a result. And believe me there are many tasks that SAA, EAA & SSA achieve by different procedures and work practices. These all need to be brought into line over time and of course any duplication of effort eliminated.
Slanging off or having a moan because you are faced with something different is not the way to tackle these changes. We must be positive about the change because one way or another, sooner or later, we are going to be part of it.
It is not a case of "us" and "them". It is all "us".
Get used to it.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pimp Daddy,
You are correct. However Mainline requires a different standard of pass to what the Regionals do. Just because you make it to the Regionals apparently doesn't mean that you are good enough for Mainline.
Before the screaming starts this is not a personal opinion. This comes directly from the mouth of the lady who decides.
I thought the Regionals used the same recruitment/interview/looney test process as QF therefore haven't they already passed the process?
Before the screaming starts this is not a personal opinion. This comes directly from the mouth of the lady who decides.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NSW
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
pimpdaddy,
The staff shortages you refer to must mean that you can sit on a tug and look effing stupid as an aircraft is taxiing onto a bay!!
There is no staff shortage, they are there they just dont do anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Everyone and everthing has to be accountable these days. If you are familiar with the operation in YMML then you know what I'm talking about.
The staff shortages you refer to must mean that you can sit on a tug and look effing stupid as an aircraft is taxiing onto a bay!!
There is no staff shortage, they are there they just dont do anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Everyone and everthing has to be accountable these days. If you are familiar with the operation in YMML then you know what I'm talking about.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oztraya
Posts: 354
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
coomacowboy - so you are saying that none of the Eastern guys can follow a yellow line and stop at the T - or is it just you?
Don't see why everyone should hold your hand while everyone else just gets on with the job.
As I said before the Eastern way is not necessarily the right way, the wrong way or the only way. Adapt lad!!
Have you asked why they don't marshall you? Have you asked why your Flight Ops didn't provide you with all the required info so you would know the layout of the bays on ML? Have you familiarised yourself with the bays now that you have been there so you know where you are going?
Don't see why everyone should hold your hand while everyone else just gets on with the job.
As I said before the Eastern way is not necessarily the right way, the wrong way or the only way. Adapt lad!!
Have you asked why they don't marshall you? Have you asked why your Flight Ops didn't provide you with all the required info so you would know the layout of the bays on ML? Have you familiarised yourself with the bays now that you have been there so you know where you are going?
hey coomacowboy........they were obviously hard up when they employed you - you have obviously failed to get the message
if you think you are so good then i am sure us readers would like to know?
if you think you are so good then i am sure us readers would like to know?
Nunc est bibendum
Capt, you'd think that if QF are offering priority to former Ansett pilots that any Southern crews out of a job would be afforded at LEAST the same amount of priority.
Dixon is a clever bloke. I'll bet money that if people are being shafted in a big way that he wasn't aware of it and he'll try and do the right thing by staff. One think I have found by observation is that he calls it as he sees it. If he was going to shaft you he'd say it straight to your face!
Dixon is a clever bloke. I'll bet money that if people are being shafted in a big way that he wasn't aware of it and he'll try and do the right thing by staff. One think I have found by observation is that he calls it as he sees it. If he was going to shaft you he'd say it straight to your face!
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Keg, apparently at the Mel staff meeting, the issue of priority being given to Ansett pilots/FAs was raised and the Regional Manager said he knew nothing about that. Must be the only person who doesn't as it was quoted quite widely in the media.
Hope you're right about Mr Dixon and that he does do the right thing by his staff.
Hope you're right about Mr Dixon and that he does do the right thing by his staff.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: The Back of Beyond
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That seems very interesting that the regional manager doesn't "know anything about" giving priority to ex Ansett Pilots.
I have been told by QF Pilot recruitment that any suitable ex Ansett candidate will be given priority for employment ... even though I remain on "Active Consideration" !
It seems having worked for AN is a huge advantage out there in the workforce.
Good Luck to all the Southern Guys & Girls !
I have been told by QF Pilot recruitment that any suitable ex Ansett candidate will be given priority for employment ... even though I remain on "Active Consideration" !
It seems having worked for AN is a huge advantage out there in the workforce.
Good Luck to all the Southern Guys & Girls !
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Abeam Alice Springs
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sunraysia Daily, Tuesday, April 16, 2002
'Heartless' Qantas is mimicking banks: MP
QANTAS will be joining "the heartless company of some of our banks" if it goes ahead with the termination of its loyal local administration which has overseen the development of one of the company's most profitable routes.
Member for North Western Province Barry Bishop said yesterday he could not believe a major company such as Qantas would consider dismantling a profitable operation in the name of increased efficiency.
"Most businesses would be examining why this part of the business works so well and would look to expanding operations at Mildura," he said.
"Its a bit hard to understand.
"It is also hard to understand why the company shows no recognition of the strong community views that have been coming through during the recent consultative process, which must now be seen as a real sham.
"Qantas appears to be joining the heartless company of some of our banks, and in our local situation can expect some backlash unless the decision is reversed to take into account loyal staff who have created a strong community link with the airline"
He said regional community views had been dismissed in the company's haste to rationalise regardless of the consequences.
"This decision is obviously driven by a senior executive a long way from here who has no understanding of the repercussions and real opportunities that abound in this part of regional Victoria.
"Given the high loadings on Qantas aircraft on the Mildura run, some questions require answers.
"The first is has the Qantas board signed off on this decision.
"The second is has the review process been completed and what guarantee do we have that the remaining employees will retain long tenure in Mildura. "It's a bit strange to be reducing staff while increasing flights to and from Mildura"
Mr Bishop said the group of Qantas managers making the decision should not walk away from their responsibilities to regional Victoria as a major Australian corporate entity.
"This community needs to know if this decision to rationalise the Mildura administration has already been made and signed off.
"The wind is changing in regional Victoria and communities are more prepared to stand up to major corporates and some are already beginning to realise that if they don't listen, they have to pay the price.
"Qantas has had a magnificent run with Mildura since an ailing airline was rescued by locals and built up into a major business before it was taken over by Qantas.
"This goes deeper than just an airline this part of Qantas was a business built by local sweat and expertise into what it is today I often wonder what Qantas managing director Geoff Dixon thinks about what is now happening in Mildura," Mr Bishop said.
'Heartless' Qantas is mimicking banks: MP
QANTAS will be joining "the heartless company of some of our banks" if it goes ahead with the termination of its loyal local administration which has overseen the development of one of the company's most profitable routes.
Member for North Western Province Barry Bishop said yesterday he could not believe a major company such as Qantas would consider dismantling a profitable operation in the name of increased efficiency.
"Most businesses would be examining why this part of the business works so well and would look to expanding operations at Mildura," he said.
"Its a bit hard to understand.
"It is also hard to understand why the company shows no recognition of the strong community views that have been coming through during the recent consultative process, which must now be seen as a real sham.
"Qantas appears to be joining the heartless company of some of our banks, and in our local situation can expect some backlash unless the decision is reversed to take into account loyal staff who have created a strong community link with the airline"
He said regional community views had been dismissed in the company's haste to rationalise regardless of the consequences.
"This decision is obviously driven by a senior executive a long way from here who has no understanding of the repercussions and real opportunities that abound in this part of regional Victoria.
"Given the high loadings on Qantas aircraft on the Mildura run, some questions require answers.
"The first is has the Qantas board signed off on this decision.
"The second is has the review process been completed and what guarantee do we have that the remaining employees will retain long tenure in Mildura. "It's a bit strange to be reducing staff while increasing flights to and from Mildura"
Mr Bishop said the group of Qantas managers making the decision should not walk away from their responsibilities to regional Victoria as a major Australian corporate entity.
"This community needs to know if this decision to rationalise the Mildura administration has already been made and signed off.
"The wind is changing in regional Victoria and communities are more prepared to stand up to major corporates and some are already beginning to realise that if they don't listen, they have to pay the price.
"Qantas has had a magnificent run with Mildura since an ailing airline was rescued by locals and built up into a major business before it was taken over by Qantas.
"This goes deeper than just an airline this part of Qantas was a business built by local sweat and expertise into what it is today I often wonder what Qantas managing director Geoff Dixon thinks about what is now happening in Mildura," Mr Bishop said.
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Oz
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With regard to the Sunraysia Daily article.
Whilst contemplating his navel, maybe the Member for North Western Province Barry Bishop may come to realise that Southern is not just a one route (MQL/MEL) airline. Could it be this inward looking attitude even permeates through the airline itself.
In spite of this matter being so poorly handled by Southern's equally Sydneycentric parent, this is no excuse for responding in kind to them. Oh well, he is a politician, so understanding the bigger picture is a pretty tall ask.
ding
Whilst contemplating his navel, maybe the Member for North Western Province Barry Bishop may come to realise that Southern is not just a one route (MQL/MEL) airline. Could it be this inward looking attitude even permeates through the airline itself.
In spite of this matter being so poorly handled by Southern's equally Sydneycentric parent, this is no excuse for responding in kind to them. Oh well, he is a politician, so understanding the bigger picture is a pretty tall ask.
ding
Last edited by dingo084; 16th Apr 2002 at 11:27.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: vic
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have to agree Dingo. Southern is definitely gone. Bean counters have made the decision so there’s nothing to gain in moaning about it. Most in Southern actually expected the rationalisation at some stage but quite rightly believe they should be treated better by QANTAS in the execution of their plan. Hard for staff to accept that there is not an equivalent job for them somewhere in the QANTAS network, (actually for some no job of any sort) especially with all the expansion going on. Best for all concerned to give up what was Southern and concentrate on focusing their energies towards working together in a direction that will find the next best resolution for all involved.
Someone on this thread said that Sunstate would be the next company to be integrated into this equation but I disagree. QANTAS tends to like having a couple of similar operators to choose from. For example, it worked in QANTAS’ favour to have both National Jet and Southern operating Jets as regionals. If one company put out their hand for a bit more of anything they were promptly told that the other company would do the job if they were not happy with their present conditions. QANTAS loves to play company’s off against each other like this. For this reason I believe they will keep Eastern and Sunstate separate. If all the Dash 8 drivers belonged to the same company and the same union………………….. well let’s just say it would have the potential to cause headaches for QANTAS in the future.
I believe the QANTAS regional model is to have 2 companies operating jets;
i.e. Impulse and National Jet,
and 2 companies operating Turboprops;
i.e. Eastern and Sunstate.
This is also in line with QANTAS’ desire to have only one aircraft type per regional company hence saving on training costs. This model seems to work OK for Virgin too. You can save a real mint once you prevent pilots from changing aircraft types. Mind you this also denies them any sort of career progression but I don’t think that worries the bean counters too much. Hope they have budgeted for a high turnover of staff. Gone are the days of a company like Ansett where you could fly a multitude of aircraft types whilst still working for the one company.
I can also see how this sort of scenario could evolve from the introduction of Australian Airlines thus affecting the mainline guys by coming back to bite them but then again I’m probably just someone who likes conspirator theories.
I’d better go crack a beer, chill out, and watch the footy replay.
Someone on this thread said that Sunstate would be the next company to be integrated into this equation but I disagree. QANTAS tends to like having a couple of similar operators to choose from. For example, it worked in QANTAS’ favour to have both National Jet and Southern operating Jets as regionals. If one company put out their hand for a bit more of anything they were promptly told that the other company would do the job if they were not happy with their present conditions. QANTAS loves to play company’s off against each other like this. For this reason I believe they will keep Eastern and Sunstate separate. If all the Dash 8 drivers belonged to the same company and the same union………………….. well let’s just say it would have the potential to cause headaches for QANTAS in the future.
I believe the QANTAS regional model is to have 2 companies operating jets;
i.e. Impulse and National Jet,
and 2 companies operating Turboprops;
i.e. Eastern and Sunstate.
This is also in line with QANTAS’ desire to have only one aircraft type per regional company hence saving on training costs. This model seems to work OK for Virgin too. You can save a real mint once you prevent pilots from changing aircraft types. Mind you this also denies them any sort of career progression but I don’t think that worries the bean counters too much. Hope they have budgeted for a high turnover of staff. Gone are the days of a company like Ansett where you could fly a multitude of aircraft types whilst still working for the one company.
I can also see how this sort of scenario could evolve from the introduction of Australian Airlines thus affecting the mainline guys by coming back to bite them but then again I’m probably just someone who likes conspirator theories.
I’d better go crack a beer, chill out, and watch the footy replay.
maybe?
but... dixon said just recently that there would be four (4) airlines in the group
qantas, australian, eastern (or whatever they finish calling the d8 ops) and impulse
it aint over yet but lets hope they improve the way qf make changes cause the way they have treated southern is s***full and to make matters worse they wont save any money as a result of how they are doing it you would think an outfit like qf would have managers that know how to handle staff and change but no
but... dixon said just recently that there would be four (4) airlines in the group
qantas, australian, eastern (or whatever they finish calling the d8 ops) and impulse
it aint over yet but lets hope they improve the way qf make changes cause the way they have treated southern is s***full and to make matters worse they wont save any money as a result of how they are doing it you would think an outfit like qf would have managers that know how to handle staff and change but no
Last edited by bonez; 17th Apr 2002 at 22:04.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: somewhere in Australia
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
if no one in Southern leaves or takes the golden hand shake, that is proposed, then there will be a lot of bumping and retraining, some captains will be bumped back to FO' positions but will have to remain on captains pay, cost for moving expences for pilots relocating etc will cost a lot not to mention the bad press. It is time Qantas laid all their cards on the table and the future of the Regionals sorted out, they may even through in progression to Australian or heven forbid Mainline... 
but first it might be an idea to combine the pilots from Eastern Southern Sunstate and Airconnex/impulse so as to assure no job losses...
but first it might be an idea to combine the pilots from Eastern Southern Sunstate and Airconnex/impulse so as to assure no job losses...
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is that right Spinout? There are a lot of pilots thinking that if they get demoted, then their wages will go down and that Captains will end up on FO wages (that's 146 Captains going down to Dash 8 wages as well as Dash 8 Captains). Hope what you say is true - might take some of the stress out of the situation.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: somewhere in Australia
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was just looking at the Supplementary Airlines Award and i remember when it happen years ago at Eastern when pilots became redundant....
it now appears that Qantas have just got rid of Southern as a company and made all pilots redundant, saying they can apply to Eastern, this is Bull S**t, if it can be done to Southern it can be done to anyone includeing Mainline... or eastern or impulse or Sunstate. The regional pilot group should via the AFAP express the disguest felt and maybe the Mainline pilot group via AIPA might think about their future... in the mean time hiho hiho its of to court ....
it now appears that Qantas have just got rid of Southern as a company and made all pilots redundant, saying they can apply to Eastern, this is Bull S**t, if it can be done to Southern it can be done to anyone includeing Mainline... or eastern or impulse or Sunstate. The regional pilot group should via the AFAP express the disguest felt and maybe the Mainline pilot group via AIPA might think about their future... in the mean time hiho hiho its of to court ....