Southern....GONE...!
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Sorry to hear about the demise of another regional.
Have been through this twice before, and wouldn't wish it on anyone.
But folks, this is the time of economic rationalism, and management love
contract carriers.
No flying job is secure - even mainline.....just watch and see.
Have been through this twice before, and wouldn't wish it on anyone.
But folks, this is the time of economic rationalism, and management love
contract carriers.
No flying job is secure - even mainline.....just watch and see.
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Mate in Southern said today that there are some meettings happening in SYD with senior mainline management over how poorly this has been handled and how to fix the mess started by the QF regional management, is there any other news on this?
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I heard that SOuthern had employed a few pilots in the last few months.
Is their future secure?
The trouble with amalgamating is that the top gets heavier, not lighter!
JetRacer
Is their future secure?
The trouble with amalgamating is that the top gets heavier, not lighter!
JetRacer
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Buster -
As an Impulse FA I am quite happy with the pay and conditions we now work under.... We still assist with the cleaning of a/c though the pay is quite resonable. We are only single a/c endorsed and do really easy flying and the product we serve onboard is hardly taxing nowadays! :-) Our previous conditions were very poor however I am earning very good money. I earn above that of my friends at Eastern or Sunstate and even L/H (some fortnights!) My only beef, which I share with a lot of my colleagues, is the whole cleaning thing and staff travel but with EBA coming up things can only get better in terms of conditions.
As an Impulse FA I am quite happy with the pay and conditions we now work under.... We still assist with the cleaning of a/c though the pay is quite resonable. We are only single a/c endorsed and do really easy flying and the product we serve onboard is hardly taxing nowadays! :-) Our previous conditions were very poor however I am earning very good money. I earn above that of my friends at Eastern or Sunstate and even L/H (some fortnights!) My only beef, which I share with a lot of my colleagues, is the whole cleaning thing and staff travel but with EBA coming up things can only get better in terms of conditions.
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Sorry to hear about this.
However, once again the phrase, 'pilots eat their own' rings true.
Why can't these skilled and proven pilots be placed in another organisation doing the same job. Would make sense from a cost perspective.
Why?
Seniority of course.
When are pilots going to accept that the biggest chain around their necks has been put there by their own insecurity.
However, once again the phrase, 'pilots eat their own' rings true.
Why can't these skilled and proven pilots be placed in another organisation doing the same job. Would make sense from a cost perspective.
Why?
Seniority of course.
When are pilots going to accept that the biggest chain around their necks has been put there by their own insecurity.
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By all accounts Qantas have appointed a total moron to the position of manager in charge of regional ops. He had the gall to suggest to Sthn staff that if need be, NJS would be asked to retrench a number of their pilots to make room for the Sthn pilots.
What I'd like someone to tell me is how can Qantas dictate to a company they don't own (NJS)? If the pilots go to NJS, then they'll need to be made redundant first. And wouldn't the new Sthn pilots be welcomed if their positions were created at the expense of NJS pilots being given the sack!
Qantas have totally lost the plot with this one. Fine, amalgamate your operations. Look at cost cutting measures. But a large number of these poor so and so's were kicked out of Launceston with less than 3 weeks notice, relocated to Canberra, told "oops, we've got too many of you in Canberra, shift yourselves down to Melbourne (FAs), and now, if you want a job, go and apply to Impulse or NJS. And if you get a job with them, then you'll have to shift to Hobart or God knows where. 4 moves in 8 months. How reasonable is that.
As for the pilots, what better reward for a lot of years of service. Qantas lost bucket loads of money flying into Launceston by all accounts and needed a low-cost alternative. They gave Southern some crappy old planes that kept breaking down, but at least they turned the loss into a profit. A combination of acquiring Impulse and the demise of Ansett meant that the 146s were too small for the route - get rid of them, replace them with Impulse. Five months down the track - get rid of the lot - planes, pilots and FAs. Thanks for nothing. You did your job. You made us some money. Now you're redundant.
How legal is this? What the hell is the union doing to stop what is morally very, very wrong? This company wasn't losing money. Southern employees did their job and they took it up the arse when the newer, more cost efficient operation moved in and took over their routes.
This issue needs publicity. The Australian people need to be shown what a pack of immoral, imbecillic and unscrupulous B*******s are running the country's 'number 1' airline.
Qantas - the spirit of Australia? Bull**** - the spirit of un-Australian more like it.
What I'd like someone to tell me is how can Qantas dictate to a company they don't own (NJS)? If the pilots go to NJS, then they'll need to be made redundant first. And wouldn't the new Sthn pilots be welcomed if their positions were created at the expense of NJS pilots being given the sack!
Qantas have totally lost the plot with this one. Fine, amalgamate your operations. Look at cost cutting measures. But a large number of these poor so and so's were kicked out of Launceston with less than 3 weeks notice, relocated to Canberra, told "oops, we've got too many of you in Canberra, shift yourselves down to Melbourne (FAs), and now, if you want a job, go and apply to Impulse or NJS. And if you get a job with them, then you'll have to shift to Hobart or God knows where. 4 moves in 8 months. How reasonable is that.
As for the pilots, what better reward for a lot of years of service. Qantas lost bucket loads of money flying into Launceston by all accounts and needed a low-cost alternative. They gave Southern some crappy old planes that kept breaking down, but at least they turned the loss into a profit. A combination of acquiring Impulse and the demise of Ansett meant that the 146s were too small for the route - get rid of them, replace them with Impulse. Five months down the track - get rid of the lot - planes, pilots and FAs. Thanks for nothing. You did your job. You made us some money. Now you're redundant.
How legal is this? What the hell is the union doing to stop what is morally very, very wrong? This company wasn't losing money. Southern employees did their job and they took it up the arse when the newer, more cost efficient operation moved in and took over their routes.
This issue needs publicity. The Australian people need to be shown what a pack of immoral, imbecillic and unscrupulous B*******s are running the country's 'number 1' airline.
Qantas - the spirit of Australia? Bull**** - the spirit of un-Australian more like it.
Join Date: Apr 2000
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wonderworld - The all contractor statement goes back well into the Australian days. That was when propellor neck first drove the morale of the Airline through the floor.It was on Sunday or similar that it was first aired.
Everything he did turned the airline industry into a factory rather than a family.
It would seem his know nothing lackeys and slimeballs as previously mentioned still hold sway.
EWL.
Everything he did turned the airline industry into a factory rather than a family.
It would seem his know nothing lackeys and slimeballs as previously mentioned still hold sway.
EWL.
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djembe56 -
Couldn't agree more! What you said was also very objective too. The Southern staff should get together and do something... It is a pretty terrible state of affairs. Surely there is something QF can do to ease the problem!?! They wholly own Impulse so why not the transfer of pilots or FAs? I am just a FA but I don't understand why it isn't possible - both are fully owned departments within QF, aren't they?
Thanks to for not bagging out Impulse.... Like its pilots or FAs have a say in wher we go or what we do... For sure it is lower cost / more efficient but like I said why does it mean these people could be out on the street?
Couldn't agree more! What you said was also very objective too. The Southern staff should get together and do something... It is a pretty terrible state of affairs. Surely there is something QF can do to ease the problem!?! They wholly own Impulse so why not the transfer of pilots or FAs? I am just a FA but I don't understand why it isn't possible - both are fully owned departments within QF, aren't they?
Thanks to for not bagging out Impulse.... Like its pilots or FAs have a say in wher we go or what we do... For sure it is lower cost / more efficient but like I said why does it mean these people could be out on the street?
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ditzy
There is no proof that it is lower cost of more efficient at all. Regional routes need hands on yield management and they will lose that with centralisation. The only thing that gets the maximum yield on a 36 to 100 seater is hands on control and gut logic.
Also - you are NOT JUST AN F/A. You are as important an operational part of an airline as the flight deck crew, the ramp dudes and the load controller that signs you out. You all make the team - and the team makes it work.
Never lose that -please.
The empty suits at head orofice have their own little agenda - so never lose the link to the heart of the airline. Dont give up. Fight.
EWL
There is no proof that it is lower cost of more efficient at all. Regional routes need hands on yield management and they will lose that with centralisation. The only thing that gets the maximum yield on a 36 to 100 seater is hands on control and gut logic.
Also - you are NOT JUST AN F/A. You are as important an operational part of an airline as the flight deck crew, the ramp dudes and the load controller that signs you out. You all make the team - and the team makes it work.
Never lose that -please.
The empty suits at head orofice have their own little agenda - so never lose the link to the heart of the airline. Dont give up. Fight.
EWL
Evertonian
Ditzyboy.
Good luck to you. I'm glad you are happy there. My comment about the Impulse award was probably unfair as I really don't know it. I've heard of a lot of generalisations and the impression I got was that it was pretty tough on you guys. With that in mind, I referred to it only as if it were the lowest award wrt pay & conditions, in comparison to what QF/AN enjoyed up until a few years ago.
I'm sure you've had the opportunity to see the mainline & L/H awards at QF so I won't try to compare them, as you mentioned, you sometimes do better than L/H crew.
From the standing of the industry in general, I feel sorry for those that won't get to enjoy the job as much as I did for the past 20 years, wrt pay & conditions. Don't get me wrong, I wasn't there for the $$'s, but geez they were good.
Happy flying Ditzy!!
Good luck to you. I'm glad you are happy there. My comment about the Impulse award was probably unfair as I really don't know it. I've heard of a lot of generalisations and the impression I got was that it was pretty tough on you guys. With that in mind, I referred to it only as if it were the lowest award wrt pay & conditions, in comparison to what QF/AN enjoyed up until a few years ago.
I'm sure you've had the opportunity to see the mainline & L/H awards at QF so I won't try to compare them, as you mentioned, you sometimes do better than L/H crew.
From the standing of the industry in general, I feel sorry for those that won't get to enjoy the job as much as I did for the past 20 years, wrt pay & conditions. Don't get me wrong, I wasn't there for the $$'s, but geez they were good.
Happy flying Ditzy!!
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Knine
you are correct - process on hold pending review whatever that means
Bilby
TC is in MQL. Call the office and they will pass a message. (03-50222444)
JetR
Yes and who knows?
Djembe
Good post. no arguments there
you are correct - process on hold pending review whatever that means
Bilby
TC is in MQL. Call the office and they will pass a message. (03-50222444)
JetR
Yes and who knows?
Djembe
Good post. no arguments there
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If there is any shred of truth in the posts on this thread then any similarity between a management that cares for and nurtures its staff as individuals and valuable corporate assets and the way QF HR from Sydney have handled this matter is nonexsistant. How can any organisation that treats its people in the way described in this thread expect any loyalty or commitment let alone trust from its staff.
They may still call Australia home, I suspect they may have just severely soiled their nest.
ding 
They may still call Australia home, I suspect they may have just severely soiled their nest.
ding
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Feel sorry for Southern 146 pilots who had to pack up and move to make way for 717's, now they will have to move again I assume. I was told all NJ and Southern people were informed when they moved from Tassie to Canberra NOT to purchase any property there.
East West are you a travel agent in NW of TAS, do you know Simon Finlay?
East West are you a travel agent in NW of TAS, do you know Simon Finlay?
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As report on ABC online this morning
Moves to streamline Qantas regional services to result in job losses
Qantas has confirmed there will be job losses as it moves to streamline regional services.
Unions representing Qantas staff are still unsure how many staff will go.
Qantas is moving to merge two of its regional carriers Southern and Eastern Airlines and says there will be administrative redundancies.
The Southern Airlines headquarters in Mildura, in Victoria, will close within three months and some of the airline's pilots and flight attendants have already been told to apply for new jobs.
A spokeswoman for Qantas says she cannot confirm whether flight attendants and pilots will be subject to job losses but the airline is working to save as many positions as possible.
It is believed to be the first step in a wider plan by Qantas to merge its five regional carriers into two camps.
Union representatives say they are working to establish how many staff will be affected.
Meanwhile, Qantas employees who agreed to a 12-month wage pause are likely to receive a 3 per cent bonus payment.
Twelve out of the 14 unions which cover Qantas employees have struck agreements with the airline, only maintenance unions are holding out.
Last night, Qantas management briefed union representatives in Sydney about the state of the airline in preparation for the next round of enterprise bargaining.
Head of Human Resources Kevin Brown says Qantas has weathered the downturn in the industry well and is going to achieve its targets.
"We remain confident that Qantas will achieve the profit that it's articulated to the street and assuming that we achieve that, and again the management team remains confident that we will," he said.
"That would result in a 3 per cent pay-out as a cash lump sum to each of the employees who have reached agreement with Qantas, relative to the wage pause."
Moves to streamline Qantas regional services to result in job losses
Qantas has confirmed there will be job losses as it moves to streamline regional services.
Unions representing Qantas staff are still unsure how many staff will go.
Qantas is moving to merge two of its regional carriers Southern and Eastern Airlines and says there will be administrative redundancies.
The Southern Airlines headquarters in Mildura, in Victoria, will close within three months and some of the airline's pilots and flight attendants have already been told to apply for new jobs.
A spokeswoman for Qantas says she cannot confirm whether flight attendants and pilots will be subject to job losses but the airline is working to save as many positions as possible.
It is believed to be the first step in a wider plan by Qantas to merge its five regional carriers into two camps.
Union representatives say they are working to establish how many staff will be affected.
Meanwhile, Qantas employees who agreed to a 12-month wage pause are likely to receive a 3 per cent bonus payment.
Twelve out of the 14 unions which cover Qantas employees have struck agreements with the airline, only maintenance unions are holding out.
Last night, Qantas management briefed union representatives in Sydney about the state of the airline in preparation for the next round of enterprise bargaining.
Head of Human Resources Kevin Brown says Qantas has weathered the downturn in the industry well and is going to achieve its targets.
"We remain confident that Qantas will achieve the profit that it's articulated to the street and assuming that we achieve that, and again the management team remains confident that we will," he said.
"That would result in a 3 per cent pay-out as a cash lump sum to each of the employees who have reached agreement with Qantas, relative to the wage pause."
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Southern Pilots Jobs
I was of the understanding that even if Eastern swallowed Southern, the pilots would keep their seniority with respect to the other Southern pilots. Therefore if the DHC8 operation was taken over by Eastern then the Southern 146 drivers with higher numbers would be offered jobs with Eastern first. Only those on the very bottom of the list would become redundant.
This situation occured years ago when Sunstate took over the Twotter operation of ARAQ and then QF sold the islands that the Twotters serviced. Sunstate sold the Twotters and the pilots were slotted in to the Sunstate seniority list on a datal basis. Some Captains had to become FO's as they didn't have the number to keep their command, but no pilot lost their job.
I have heard that Eastern have quite a few contract pilots at the moment, surely these contractors would be given their marching orders rather than sacking the Southern pilots?
This situation occured years ago when Sunstate took over the Twotter operation of ARAQ and then QF sold the islands that the Twotters serviced. Sunstate sold the Twotters and the pilots were slotted in to the Sunstate seniority list on a datal basis. Some Captains had to become FO's as they didn't have the number to keep their command, but no pilot lost their job.
I have heard that Eastern have quite a few contract pilots at the moment, surely these contractors would be given their marching orders rather than sacking the Southern pilots?
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akell
I have known Simon Findlay for many years now from the days I was at TAA Burnie as Res Manager (come truck driver - aeroplane marshaller - porter and load controller) when he was Sales Manager for Ansett.
He is the owner of North West Travel now and I fear they are having a predictably hard time as the KD ground handling agent.
Hopefully some turnaround will come soon for KD.
Best
EWL
I have known Simon Findlay for many years now from the days I was at TAA Burnie as Res Manager (come truck driver - aeroplane marshaller - porter and load controller) when he was Sales Manager for Ansett.
He is the owner of North West Travel now and I fear they are having a predictably hard time as the KD ground handling agent.
Hopefully some turnaround will come soon for KD.
Best
EWL
Thread Starter
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I'm just wondering what some of the views are from our Eastern brothers about the " Intergration of seniority".
We (SAA) pilots were told at the recent meeting that we would be working on our award/eba until later in the year when the intergration of the numbers took place thence we all become Eastern crew
"Positivegee" i believe you are correct, most of the 146 guys are senior, and would elect to go Eastern Dash8 and remain in QF network as a preference to working for NJS.That means approx the last 26 on list would be made redundant.
Lots of retraining to do...as most/all current Dash Captains would be bumped back to F/O's........
We (SAA) pilots were told at the recent meeting that we would be working on our award/eba until later in the year when the intergration of the numbers took place thence we all become Eastern crew
"Positivegee" i believe you are correct, most of the 146 guys are senior, and would elect to go Eastern Dash8 and remain in QF network as a preference to working for NJS.That means approx the last 26 on list would be made redundant.
Lots of retraining to do...as most/all current Dash Captains would be bumped back to F/O's........
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Blueballs, notwithstanding that what you say may well be correct, I don't think there will be any move on seniority without the involvement of Sunstate and Impulse as well as Eastern. If QF want just two regionals (Dash8 and Jet) then EVERYONE has to be in the pot. Obviously with provisions on base and type protection until it settles down.
The AFAP have stated that their policy is "No redundany".
The fact that the process is now on hold may well see the necessary industrial discussions occur before the brakes are released. I understand that Terry O'C from the AFAP will be doing the rounds of the bases next week.
It is quite clear now that QF realise they have handled this whole thing very poorly. How they recover the situation will be interesting as the people driving this change have lost all trust and credibility that they may have had.
The AFAP have stated that their policy is "No redundany".
The fact that the process is now on hold may well see the necessary industrial discussions occur before the brakes are released. I understand that Terry O'C from the AFAP will be doing the rounds of the bases next week.
It is quite clear now that QF realise they have handled this whole thing very poorly. How they recover the situation will be interesting as the people driving this change have lost all trust and credibility that they may have had.
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At Eastern the general feeling is that it should be datal seniority but with 6-12 months of base protection. This is so there would not be to much in the way of knee jerk reaction to the changes and everyone can assess their position.
From what I gather not many would want to move to Sydney because of the higher cost of living, so you need protection to stop movement to other bases until things settle down.
With regard the 146 pilots, most at Eastern feel they should be given positions on the 717 or 737(in place of Ansett contract pilots). If the 146's are going to stay and go to NJS, maybe they could be employed by Eastern, but contracted out, on loan or whatever you call it, to NJS. That way they would keep their entitlements and seniority.
From what I gather not many would want to move to Sydney because of the higher cost of living, so you need protection to stop movement to other bases until things settle down.
With regard the 146 pilots, most at Eastern feel they should be given positions on the 717 or 737(in place of Ansett contract pilots). If the 146's are going to stay and go to NJS, maybe they could be employed by Eastern, but contracted out, on loan or whatever you call it, to NJS. That way they would keep their entitlements and seniority.