Emirates Considers Oz Domestic Carrier
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One of the really great things about prune is the opportunity for people with little understanding of the world outside oz (Wonderwall) to make sweeping statements that bear no resemblance to reality. Thanks MTOW for setting him straight on that matter.
Having experienced the highly competitive world of aviation outside of australia, I am convinced that time is/has run out for the highly protected little industry in our home country. I'm not sure whether this is a good thing or a bad thing for Australia, but nontheless it is happening, so you can either embrace the change or be steamrolled by it.
We must bear in mind also that Oz had a quite useful little aviation sector 10 or 15 years ago, which set about destroying itself from inside. I admit there was substantial help from at least one government, News Ltd and ANZ. So it is no use condemning Emirates actions, because if they don't take up this once in a generation opportunity to capitalise on an industry in dissaray, then someone else will. The way it appears from way over here is that it will just be a matter of time. Sad as it is for those out of work at present (and they all have my genuine sympathy), running an airline is about making money, not protecting the sheltered workshop that was Australian aviation. At the moment Emirates does that (making money) better than anyone else in the world.
Having experienced the highly competitive world of aviation outside of australia, I am convinced that time is/has run out for the highly protected little industry in our home country. I'm not sure whether this is a good thing or a bad thing for Australia, but nontheless it is happening, so you can either embrace the change or be steamrolled by it.
We must bear in mind also that Oz had a quite useful little aviation sector 10 or 15 years ago, which set about destroying itself from inside. I admit there was substantial help from at least one government, News Ltd and ANZ. So it is no use condemning Emirates actions, because if they don't take up this once in a generation opportunity to capitalise on an industry in dissaray, then someone else will. The way it appears from way over here is that it will just be a matter of time. Sad as it is for those out of work at present (and they all have my genuine sympathy), running an airline is about making money, not protecting the sheltered workshop that was Australian aviation. At the moment Emirates does that (making money) better than anyone else in the world.
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MTOW, if they are expanding so rapidly why is there a delay of 6 Months between interview and start date. I think EK is an excellent airline, but the reality is that the yanks are looking to take out Iraq, sometime in the next 12 Months. I see Qatar is employing, so is Gulf, why is this happening at a time when the middle east is in turmoil? I also know for a fact that a number of aussie Pilots have left Emirates for Virgin, why?? I have also heard rumors that Virgin are shopping around offshore for airbus Pilots.
(I am not bagging any of these Airlines but just asking a question)
Regarding your last paragraph regarding EK, I know a few F/A's in EK who said staff were stood down after Sept 11 for may months including themselves.
Why are you so agressive about this subject?, Emirates have thousands of Pilots on their books waiting for an interview!
All the Best
(I am not bagging any of these Airlines but just asking a question)
Regarding your last paragraph regarding EK, I know a few F/A's in EK who said staff were stood down after Sept 11 for may months including themselves.
Why are you so agressive about this subject?, Emirates have thousands of Pilots on their books waiting for an interview!
All the Best
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Zoo, I don’t want to bite anyone’s head off, and I can appreciate your frustration over the events that have affected you over the last few months. I’m probably reacting to the so-called ‘news’ that most Australians have foisted upon them nightly by the sad excuse we have in Oz for a news media. We had friends cancel a holiday with us because of what they heard on Australian TV because it was ‘too dangerous’ to fly to the ME, where the Oz TV ‘news’ presenters had led them to believe that OBL himself would be waiting at the end of the aerobridge in the DXB terminal with a bloody great AK in his hands to blow them away the moment they stepped off the aircraft.
To answer you queries: a number of EK captains have recently left for Virgin – (three!) – as far as I know, for purely personal/family reasons, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if a few more did in the future. However, they would be the first to admit that they’ve taken a huge hit I the hip pocket to do so and I don’t believe any of them would say that major dissatisfaction with EK per se had a major bearing on their decision. (Anyone who thinks he’d hard done by in EK either has a very selective memory or should never have left the dream job he had to come to Dubai. But having said that, EK, and Dubai, is not for everyone. Particularly if your wife/partner doesn’t want to leave home, forget all about coming, because that is the secret to the place – a wife who’s happy in the Sandpit. And there are some who simply can’t hack the place.) It’s just a simple fact that many people get the ten year itch after living away from home for that long and some want their children not to spend their whole childhood as expat brats, while others consider they have saved enough over ten years to enjoy what they’ve made while they still don’t need a zimmer frame. (One of the three had been in the ME for over fifteen years.)
FA training was put on hold after September – for two whole months – and leave without pay was offered to FAs while the company assessed the impact of ‘that’ date. (Hundreds applied – more than the company could handle – but that had little to do with the FAs’ fear of terrorism. It was just a chance of an extra holiday without having to give up their job.)
There was an enormous downturn in traffic post September 01, which has recovered to the point now that a staff subload ticket is little more than a joke on most EK sectors. I know of people being stuck in Singapore and London for a very long time trying to get back to Dubai… but that’s hardly new in EK. It’s been like that for most of the time I’ve been here.
As for why you have to wait six months between interview and start date, it’s called ‘planning ahead’ – EK recognises (when it can) that many, if not most candidates have to give three months notice to their current employer. But having said that, not everyone gets six months’ notice. Too many pilots who’ve never looked at the Aviation world outside Oz simply can’t believe what a small pond they’ve been living in, and many might be amazed at the experience level and youth of many of those pilots currently applying to EK. Don’t make the mistake of believing all that self-serving crap we’ve fed ourselves in Oz for years about how we’re ‘the best’ and how we have ‘the safest airlines in the world’. It’s a big, and very deep pond out here, and there are many, many pedigree fish surviving in it that don’t hail from Ozmate.
To answer you queries: a number of EK captains have recently left for Virgin – (three!) – as far as I know, for purely personal/family reasons, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if a few more did in the future. However, they would be the first to admit that they’ve taken a huge hit I the hip pocket to do so and I don’t believe any of them would say that major dissatisfaction with EK per se had a major bearing on their decision. (Anyone who thinks he’d hard done by in EK either has a very selective memory or should never have left the dream job he had to come to Dubai. But having said that, EK, and Dubai, is not for everyone. Particularly if your wife/partner doesn’t want to leave home, forget all about coming, because that is the secret to the place – a wife who’s happy in the Sandpit. And there are some who simply can’t hack the place.) It’s just a simple fact that many people get the ten year itch after living away from home for that long and some want their children not to spend their whole childhood as expat brats, while others consider they have saved enough over ten years to enjoy what they’ve made while they still don’t need a zimmer frame. (One of the three had been in the ME for over fifteen years.)
FA training was put on hold after September – for two whole months – and leave without pay was offered to FAs while the company assessed the impact of ‘that’ date. (Hundreds applied – more than the company could handle – but that had little to do with the FAs’ fear of terrorism. It was just a chance of an extra holiday without having to give up their job.)
There was an enormous downturn in traffic post September 01, which has recovered to the point now that a staff subload ticket is little more than a joke on most EK sectors. I know of people being stuck in Singapore and London for a very long time trying to get back to Dubai… but that’s hardly new in EK. It’s been like that for most of the time I’ve been here.
As for why you have to wait six months between interview and start date, it’s called ‘planning ahead’ – EK recognises (when it can) that many, if not most candidates have to give three months notice to their current employer. But having said that, not everyone gets six months’ notice. Too many pilots who’ve never looked at the Aviation world outside Oz simply can’t believe what a small pond they’ve been living in, and many might be amazed at the experience level and youth of many of those pilots currently applying to EK. Don’t make the mistake of believing all that self-serving crap we’ve fed ourselves in Oz for years about how we’re ‘the best’ and how we have ‘the safest airlines in the world’. It’s a big, and very deep pond out here, and there are many, many pedigree fish surviving in it that don’t hail from Ozmate.
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Unless there has been a recent change in the rules, EK can't use the idle aircraft domestically in Oz. An Australian domestic airline must operate Australian registered aircraft - although foreign reg aircraft can be used temporarily for up to 6 months. So either half a dozen 777's have to go on the Aussie register or that scenerio is not a goer.
Re NZ, there are (were?) no traffic rights between Oz-NZ from the Aussie side - although the Kiwi's have given approval - so 5th freedom not possible at the moment. They can take through pax to/from NZ from/to SIN and DXB though.
Re NZ, there are (were?) no traffic rights between Oz-NZ from the Aussie side - although the Kiwi's have given approval - so 5th freedom not possible at the moment. They can take through pax to/from NZ from/to SIN and DXB though.
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Now I admit that my nav might be wrong here, but when I stretch a piece of string on my little globe here between London and Sydney, it goes almost bang over the top of Dubai. Wouldn't this indicate that the quickest/shortest route would be through the Sandpit? If that's the case, then if certain carriers were really concerned for punters, they'd all be going through Dubai?
In any case, load factors for the Roo Route are still perenially high - despite Sep 11 and the 'recession' - so allowing others like EK on the route will not even be noticed by the incumbents.
What are they scared of?
In any case, load factors for the Roo Route are still perenially high - despite Sep 11 and the 'recession' - so allowing others like EK on the route will not even be noticed by the incumbents.
What are they scared of?
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Looking out the window today....nope, no turmoil here...
Although I guess if you have never seriously checked out a map before, one could be forgiven for thinking the Israeli/Palestinian conflict WAS the entire Middle East.
Don't know who asked, but those airlines are employing because they need pilots. Be kinda silly otherwise don't you think?
In these parts (post Sept 11) traffic went down for about a day or so...then went thru the roof (speaking as an ATC), and have stayed there.
From what my old collegues in Oz tell me, Ansetts collapse has really affected traffic levels and it's as quiet as some have ever seen it.
If an airline goes broke in the rest of the world, no one (except those directly affected) really notices.
That has certainly been the case in these parts.
I hope that Emirates do start more regular flights back to OZ. At the moment I fly with EK to WSSS then QF to PH/BN.
Amazing difference from a pax point of view...going from a "3rd world airline" to QANTAS...for example...
Hopping off the A330/B777 to the old clunker B767
New equipment (you notice this especially on the WSSS_PH leg)
Friendly FA's ( you REALLY notice this)
May not sound like much...but the SLF want to be treated nicely, and fly around in new aircraft, two things that the "rat" seems unable to accomodate.
Although I guess if you have never seriously checked out a map before, one could be forgiven for thinking the Israeli/Palestinian conflict WAS the entire Middle East.
Don't know who asked, but those airlines are employing because they need pilots. Be kinda silly otherwise don't you think?
In these parts (post Sept 11) traffic went down for about a day or so...then went thru the roof (speaking as an ATC), and have stayed there.
From what my old collegues in Oz tell me, Ansetts collapse has really affected traffic levels and it's as quiet as some have ever seen it.
If an airline goes broke in the rest of the world, no one (except those directly affected) really notices.
That has certainly been the case in these parts.
I hope that Emirates do start more regular flights back to OZ. At the moment I fly with EK to WSSS then QF to PH/BN.
Amazing difference from a pax point of view...going from a "3rd world airline" to QANTAS...for example...
Hopping off the A330/B777 to the old clunker B767
New equipment (you notice this especially on the WSSS_PH leg)
Friendly FA's ( you REALLY notice this)
May not sound like much...but the SLF want to be treated nicely, and fly around in new aircraft, two things that the "rat" seems unable to accomodate.
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I would be the last person to defend QF service or equipment standards, there is no doubting that EK's are without peer.
One should however consider a fair playing field. Qantas is a public company, generating jobs and profits for Australians. If it wishes to purchase shiny new equipment it must do so out of retained profits which would otherwise go to shareholders.
It pays gross wages (and payroll tax) for its employees services, who then are taxed on those wages, thereby reducing their return, yet QF pays full ticket.
It must go to the public market to raise captial.
It is taxed on its profits.
It is obvious that EK does not share any of these obstructions.
I am sure that without them and an enthusiastic and well funded ownership, QF too could be more competitive.
(I refuse to defend service standards at QF as I agree they are extremely poor and in desperate need of address)
Quite simply, the playing field should be level.
One should however consider a fair playing field. Qantas is a public company, generating jobs and profits for Australians. If it wishes to purchase shiny new equipment it must do so out of retained profits which would otherwise go to shareholders.
It pays gross wages (and payroll tax) for its employees services, who then are taxed on those wages, thereby reducing their return, yet QF pays full ticket.
It must go to the public market to raise captial.
It is taxed on its profits.
It is obvious that EK does not share any of these obstructions.
I am sure that without them and an enthusiastic and well funded ownership, QF too could be more competitive.
(I refuse to defend service standards at QF as I agree they are extremely poor and in desperate need of address)
Quite simply, the playing field should be level.
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Someone better get Taildragger a new piece of string because according to my string the Great Circle goes way north of the sandpit.
Having said that...good luck to Emirates. Great equipment, vigorous marketing etc. Well done.
As for QF....they wanted to be the biggest airline in Australia and they got what they wanted. It should therefore be of little relevance to them that other airlines have a global outlook and think about growth through innovation and vision, not introspection and cynical predatory behaviour.
There are large numbers of Australian pilots flying aircraft (777, 330, 340) that aren't even on the Australian register. This didn't happen because of 1989...that just released the drivers. It happened because other airlines all over the place think about things that haven't yet happened and say "Why Not?" compared to QF............
These airlines may not occupy quite the high moral ground as QF does (most of the rest of us would call BKK a grubby little accident than the far finer sounding "incident") but they do their best. The passengers agree too!
Safe flying
Sherm
Having said that...good luck to Emirates. Great equipment, vigorous marketing etc. Well done.
As for QF....they wanted to be the biggest airline in Australia and they got what they wanted. It should therefore be of little relevance to them that other airlines have a global outlook and think about growth through innovation and vision, not introspection and cynical predatory behaviour.
There are large numbers of Australian pilots flying aircraft (777, 330, 340) that aren't even on the Australian register. This didn't happen because of 1989...that just released the drivers. It happened because other airlines all over the place think about things that haven't yet happened and say "Why Not?" compared to QF............
These airlines may not occupy quite the high moral ground as QF does (most of the rest of us would call BKK a grubby little accident than the far finer sounding "incident") but they do their best. The passengers agree too!
Safe flying
Sherm
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Why does everyone play out QF on pprune. No complaints from me..I rekon their fleet is top notch. Sure some a/c may be getting on but new a/c are on he way..
Contrary to other posts above...I think Qantas may have a bit of difficulty in setting up Domestic/regional services out of DXB to BAH/DOH or even Abu Dhabi. It may be "allowd" by the UAE CAA. But there would soon be stiff opposition from Gulf Air/Qatar/Kuwait Airways and even EK.
Emirates is a good airline and they may operate a new well presented fleet...but don't keep playing out Qantas just cause they are the largest airline in OZ.
Keep a level playing field.
Contrary to other posts above...I think Qantas may have a bit of difficulty in setting up Domestic/regional services out of DXB to BAH/DOH or even Abu Dhabi. It may be "allowd" by the UAE CAA. But there would soon be stiff opposition from Gulf Air/Qatar/Kuwait Airways and even EK.
Emirates is a good airline and they may operate a new well presented fleet...but don't keep playing out Qantas just cause they are the largest airline in OZ.
Keep a level playing field.
Evertonian
Well, Yankee4, it all depends on your definition of a level playing field, doesn't it?
If you mean it's level when your country's government waives your debts, gives you loads of government contracts and intervenes for you in the affairs of foreign companies' dealings with foreign governments, then yes, you are right!
If you mean it's level when your country's government waives your debts, gives you loads of government contracts and intervenes for you in the affairs of foreign companies' dealings with foreign governments, then yes, you are right!
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competition????
Yankee 4...sorry couldn't let this one go past to the keeper without comment.
To paraphrase....if Qf set up in the Gulf it may be allowed but would face stiff opposition (read competition) from EK, GFA, QTR, SVA and OMA.
Yes terrible thing that for the travelling public...competition.
Seems to keep everyone else in the world on their collective toes.
So why should it bother QANTAS?
Oh yes I remember now...the last few times there was competition in Oz, there was predatory pricing (and government assistance) designed to put the opposition out of business....could it be that the boot could conceivably be on the other foot in the Gulf?
To paraphrase....if Qf set up in the Gulf it may be allowed but would face stiff opposition (read competition) from EK, GFA, QTR, SVA and OMA.
Yes terrible thing that for the travelling public...competition.
Seems to keep everyone else in the world on their collective toes.
So why should it bother QANTAS?
Oh yes I remember now...the last few times there was competition in Oz, there was predatory pricing (and government assistance) designed to put the opposition out of business....could it be that the boot could conceivably be on the other foot in the Gulf?
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This one may have some legs yet. Saw this last night (23 Apr 02):
Emirates Chairman Meets Australian Govt to Discuss Expansion
Sydney, April 24 (Bloomberg) -- Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed al-
Maktoum, chairman of Dubai's state-owned airline, Emirates, met
Australian government officials to discuss the carrier's plans to
expand it services, the Australian Financial Review reported.
Sheikh Ahmed met Monday with Ken Matthews, secretary of
Australia's federal department of transport, to discuss the
airline's opportunities in Australia, including offering daily
services to Sydney, the newspaper said.
The government-owned airline operates daily flights to
Melbourne and four flights a week to Sydney, via Singapore. It
will offer four direct flights a week to Perth on Aug. 1.
Emirates will increase its services to Sydney "as soon as we
get the rights,'' the newspaper quoted Sheikh Ahmed as saying.
One of the fastest growing airlines, Emirates may also start
offering services to other Australian destinations, including
Brisbane, according to the newspaper. Emirates isn't ruling out a
move into the Australian domestic market through a partnership
with an incumbent airline or one of its own, according to the
newspaper.
Anyone from the Sandpit know anything??
Emirates Chairman Meets Australian Govt to Discuss Expansion
Sydney, April 24 (Bloomberg) -- Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed al-
Maktoum, chairman of Dubai's state-owned airline, Emirates, met
Australian government officials to discuss the carrier's plans to
expand it services, the Australian Financial Review reported.
Sheikh Ahmed met Monday with Ken Matthews, secretary of
Australia's federal department of transport, to discuss the
airline's opportunities in Australia, including offering daily
services to Sydney, the newspaper said.
The government-owned airline operates daily flights to
Melbourne and four flights a week to Sydney, via Singapore. It
will offer four direct flights a week to Perth on Aug. 1.
Emirates will increase its services to Sydney "as soon as we
get the rights,'' the newspaper quoted Sheikh Ahmed as saying.
One of the fastest growing airlines, Emirates may also start
offering services to other Australian destinations, including
Brisbane, according to the newspaper. Emirates isn't ruling out a
move into the Australian domestic market through a partnership
with an incumbent airline or one of its own, according to the
newspaper.
Anyone from the Sandpit know anything??
Thread Starter
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AUSTRALIAN (THE) 24/04/2002 P21
EMIRATES IN BID TO LAND A DAILY DOUBLE.
By Michael McGuire.
Aviation DUBAI-based Emirates Airlines chairman Amhed bin Saeed Al Maktoum has
held top-level government meetings in Canberra and Sydney this week lobbying for
greater access to Sydney airport.
On Monday, Sheik Ahmed met Department of Transport secretary Ken Matthews in
Canberra, but not John Howard. Yesterday, he met NSW Premier Bob Carr in Sydney.
Sheik Ahmed plans to increase Emirates flights out of Sydney from four a week to
a daily service, before moving to twice daily. Emirates already flies daily
services from Melbourne and will launch a Perth-Dubai service in August.
"We feel that we have a very strong case to increase the number of flights to
Sydney," Sheik Ahmed said yesterday.
"If we were allowed we would put double daily into Sydney."
Sheik Ahmed said Mr Carr supported the request to increase frequency to Sydney.
Emirates has been one of the most bullish airlines since the September 11
terrorist attacks and the subsequent collapse in the global aviation market.
It announced a record $US15 billion ($28 billion) order for 58 new planes in
November, while most other airlines were scaling back or cancelling capital
expenditure.
However, it is believed Qantas would be opposed to giving any more slots to
Emirates.
Emirates plans a non-stop service from Sydney and Melbourne to Dubai when it
takes delivery of the new Airbus A340-500, which will become the longest range
airliner when it comes into operation late this year. Such a move would allow
Emirates to challenge Qantas in offering a one-stop journey on its traditional
and lucrative Sydney-London route.
(c) Nationwide News Proprietary Ltd, 2002.
EMIRATES IN BID TO LAND A DAILY DOUBLE.
By Michael McGuire.
Aviation DUBAI-based Emirates Airlines chairman Amhed bin Saeed Al Maktoum has
held top-level government meetings in Canberra and Sydney this week lobbying for
greater access to Sydney airport.
On Monday, Sheik Ahmed met Department of Transport secretary Ken Matthews in
Canberra, but not John Howard. Yesterday, he met NSW Premier Bob Carr in Sydney.
Sheik Ahmed plans to increase Emirates flights out of Sydney from four a week to
a daily service, before moving to twice daily. Emirates already flies daily
services from Melbourne and will launch a Perth-Dubai service in August.
"We feel that we have a very strong case to increase the number of flights to
Sydney," Sheik Ahmed said yesterday.
"If we were allowed we would put double daily into Sydney."
Sheik Ahmed said Mr Carr supported the request to increase frequency to Sydney.
Emirates has been one of the most bullish airlines since the September 11
terrorist attacks and the subsequent collapse in the global aviation market.
It announced a record $US15 billion ($28 billion) order for 58 new planes in
November, while most other airlines were scaling back or cancelling capital
expenditure.
However, it is believed Qantas would be opposed to giving any more slots to
Emirates.
Emirates plans a non-stop service from Sydney and Melbourne to Dubai when it
takes delivery of the new Airbus A340-500, which will become the longest range
airliner when it comes into operation late this year. Such a move would allow
Emirates to challenge Qantas in offering a one-stop journey on its traditional
and lucrative Sydney-London route.
(c) Nationwide News Proprietary Ltd, 2002.
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Thanks for the efforts, Wirraway.
Emirates in the Australian market? Bring it on...
The Australian gov't has demonstrated its regard for the public and employees with its stance on Australian aviation and Ansett Australia. Qantas demonstrated its competitive ruthlessness by seizing the oportunity to pummel Ansett with knock-out blows when they were down. Hey, that's big business.
The Gov't decided to approve, not only the 100% foreign ownership of Ansett but 100% ownership by ONE shareholder, and that , a company which did not have the financial clout to properly manage it.
It was the government's decision to allow into Australia foreign operators (VirginBlue) which, while not directly controlling Ansett's fate, was a contributing factor.
Like it or not, Qantass will always be "The Government Airline" and so the gov't stood by while Ansett sank, with the loss of 16000 jobs. What's another 25 000 odd in Qantass if Emirates sinks them? Well, I wouldn't wish that on anyone, I guess but maybe you see my point?
Lose Australia's flag carrier? Well, that might be a disaster but then again, it might not. We just lost Ansett and they were arguably many peoples' sentimental favourite, well ahead of QantAss. I say this because I took note of what so many people told me, anecdotally.
Un-employed Ansett staff are now begging for jobs with Quntas and VirginBlue. The flying is still there in Australia and so the work is, too. If Qantass were to shrink due to a higher-quality product coming onto the market and consumer backlash for its monopolistic approach to the customers, the displaced staff could simply follow their Ansett brethren and pick up the new positions offered by Emirates, couldn't they? The Gov't would be happy with this, wouldn't they? Surely so, that's how it worked with Ansett...
Qantarse' patronising offer to employ Ansett staff came at the same time as they vacillated over contract details in a deal that would've seen AN A320 aircraft operating short-term under the Qantass AOC to get stranded passengers to their destinations (or something very much in line with that concept) and keep a cash flow into Ansett. A good ploy, it kept the AN Administrators busy and hopeful for nearly 2 critical weeks and cost them (and gained Ansett) absolutely nothing.
If this is how Australians and our elected government treat fellow Australians then I no longer have any objections to foreign carriers entering the market. From travel experience, they will offer a much better product than Qunt A.ss, and QF can not expect to be denied the same treatment they have dished out so readily... once again, that's big business, after all. Their arrogant attitude at management and corporate levels might see improvement on the arrival of real competition. (I can't believe I typed that last line and kept a straight face...)
And speaking of arrogance, it would be a refreshing change to greet a major international airline in Aussie skies that does not treat Sydney airport and Australian airspace in general as its God-given, with the accompanying lack of airmanship and consideration associated with such an attitude. And that tragic affected pommy accent the -400 drivers work at...
Emirates in the Australian market? Bring it on...
The Australian gov't has demonstrated its regard for the public and employees with its stance on Australian aviation and Ansett Australia. Qantas demonstrated its competitive ruthlessness by seizing the oportunity to pummel Ansett with knock-out blows when they were down. Hey, that's big business.
The Gov't decided to approve, not only the 100% foreign ownership of Ansett but 100% ownership by ONE shareholder, and that , a company which did not have the financial clout to properly manage it.
It was the government's decision to allow into Australia foreign operators (VirginBlue) which, while not directly controlling Ansett's fate, was a contributing factor.
Like it or not, Qantass will always be "The Government Airline" and so the gov't stood by while Ansett sank, with the loss of 16000 jobs. What's another 25 000 odd in Qantass if Emirates sinks them? Well, I wouldn't wish that on anyone, I guess but maybe you see my point?
Lose Australia's flag carrier? Well, that might be a disaster but then again, it might not. We just lost Ansett and they were arguably many peoples' sentimental favourite, well ahead of QantAss. I say this because I took note of what so many people told me, anecdotally.
Un-employed Ansett staff are now begging for jobs with Quntas and VirginBlue. The flying is still there in Australia and so the work is, too. If Qantass were to shrink due to a higher-quality product coming onto the market and consumer backlash for its monopolistic approach to the customers, the displaced staff could simply follow their Ansett brethren and pick up the new positions offered by Emirates, couldn't they? The Gov't would be happy with this, wouldn't they? Surely so, that's how it worked with Ansett...
Qantarse' patronising offer to employ Ansett staff came at the same time as they vacillated over contract details in a deal that would've seen AN A320 aircraft operating short-term under the Qantass AOC to get stranded passengers to their destinations (or something very much in line with that concept) and keep a cash flow into Ansett. A good ploy, it kept the AN Administrators busy and hopeful for nearly 2 critical weeks and cost them (and gained Ansett) absolutely nothing.
If this is how Australians and our elected government treat fellow Australians then I no longer have any objections to foreign carriers entering the market. From travel experience, they will offer a much better product than Qunt A.ss, and QF can not expect to be denied the same treatment they have dished out so readily... once again, that's big business, after all. Their arrogant attitude at management and corporate levels might see improvement on the arrival of real competition. (I can't believe I typed that last line and kept a straight face...)
And speaking of arrogance, it would be a refreshing change to greet a major international airline in Aussie skies that does not treat Sydney airport and Australian airspace in general as its God-given, with the accompanying lack of airmanship and consideration associated with such an attitude. And that tragic affected pommy accent the -400 drivers work at...
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Did someone get knocked back with QF Waterops..
Get a life. By all means put your point forward but not to the detrement of those concerned. It's not the governments fault that a PRIVATISED company like Ansett went bust....nor would anyone like to see the remaining Australian Airline end up in the same boat. And yes I feel for those who lost their jobs with AN. But I know for a fact that Qantas tried their best to process applications from AN guys aheadd of everyone else. I guess no company can do right by you.
Those sorts of comments in your preceeding post are plainly disconcerting.
Perhaps your views on Emirates will change when they too, reject you from thier recruitment process.
Feel free to post again (or probably more importantly apply for a job again) when you've grown up and matured a little.
Get a life. By all means put your point forward but not to the detrement of those concerned. It's not the governments fault that a PRIVATISED company like Ansett went bust....nor would anyone like to see the remaining Australian Airline end up in the same boat. And yes I feel for those who lost their jobs with AN. But I know for a fact that Qantas tried their best to process applications from AN guys aheadd of everyone else. I guess no company can do right by you.
Those sorts of comments in your preceeding post are plainly disconcerting.
Perhaps your views on Emirates will change when they too, reject you from thier recruitment process.
Feel free to post again (or probably more importantly apply for a job again) when you've grown up and matured a little.
Evertonian
It's not the governments fault that a PRIVATISED company like Ansett went bust
It certainly was not the governments fault, but they played a part. The significance of which will never be known unless AN's demise is properly investigated, and we all know that will never happen.
The issue of QF playing a spoiling role is certainly valid. I saw it first hand at AN. I'm sure they are taking as many AN staff as they can, to their credit, but just ask the initial batch of AN FA's that went there. They got well & truly $crewed! Just ask the CSO's who went there on casual contracts. Just ask the Jardines staff who lost the MH contract to QF because QF quoted at a loss.
The spirit of Australia....
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Yankee4,
Yes, we all know it is not the role of the gov't to prop up business. But thanks for pointing it out once again. Equally, it is not their role to be obstructionist, or to provide anything other than a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD, if they are going to get involved at all. (Actually, as far as I was always concerned, their role was primarily to govern...but I digress) The only "gov't" area where this was SEEN to take place was throught the ACCC.
But where this sort of scale is concerned (16000 Aussies, plus un-told 1000s indirectly involved, eg travel agents, etc), it might be considered, by some, time to reconsider on the policy of staying out of business. Anyway, despite its protestations to the contrary, concerning Ansett, we also all know the gov't is quite happy to get involved in private business dealings when it suits them. Maybe if PM John Howard's bro (remember him?) had been a GM, MD, FO, FA, CSO or baggage handler with Ansett, things would've turned out differently? Who knows...
I hold the gov't partially accountable for what happened. Not through standing by and doing nothing to help, but for actions and policies further in the past. But as most AN people know, Ansett's problems started long before ANZ bought the other 50%. You can hardly blame the Kiwi's, (well I guess you can if you want) they admitted not carrying out due diligence.. they didn't know any better.
Unfortunately, the gov't's main concerns and the policies shaped by them, these days seem to revolve around:
i) Globalisation,
ii) Their individual well-being in retirement, and
iii) Anything to do with being re-elected.
But I'll rave about all that another time...
Maybe I'd have felt differently if I had worked for the opposition all these years. In fact, I'm sure I would have but I am equally certain I would never have had quite the feeling of esprit de corps that I always had with Ansett so, yes, I'm p.issed off.
I apologise for my comments being disconcerting or to the detriment of others concerned. I've taken a pill.
Yes, we all know it is not the role of the gov't to prop up business. But thanks for pointing it out once again. Equally, it is not their role to be obstructionist, or to provide anything other than a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD, if they are going to get involved at all. (Actually, as far as I was always concerned, their role was primarily to govern...but I digress) The only "gov't" area where this was SEEN to take place was throught the ACCC.
But where this sort of scale is concerned (16000 Aussies, plus un-told 1000s indirectly involved, eg travel agents, etc), it might be considered, by some, time to reconsider on the policy of staying out of business. Anyway, despite its protestations to the contrary, concerning Ansett, we also all know the gov't is quite happy to get involved in private business dealings when it suits them. Maybe if PM John Howard's bro (remember him?) had been a GM, MD, FO, FA, CSO or baggage handler with Ansett, things would've turned out differently? Who knows...
I hold the gov't partially accountable for what happened. Not through standing by and doing nothing to help, but for actions and policies further in the past. But as most AN people know, Ansett's problems started long before ANZ bought the other 50%. You can hardly blame the Kiwi's, (well I guess you can if you want) they admitted not carrying out due diligence.. they didn't know any better.
Unfortunately, the gov't's main concerns and the policies shaped by them, these days seem to revolve around:
i) Globalisation,
ii) Their individual well-being in retirement, and
iii) Anything to do with being re-elected.
But I'll rave about all that another time...
Maybe I'd have felt differently if I had worked for the opposition all these years. In fact, I'm sure I would have but I am equally certain I would never have had quite the feeling of esprit de corps that I always had with Ansett so, yes, I'm p.issed off.
I apologise for my comments being disconcerting or to the detriment of others concerned. I've taken a pill.