QF are cleaning up, bring back AN please!!!
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QF are cleaning up, bring back AN please!!!
Just went to book a ticket home with Quantass, and it is double what it was two month's ago. Absolutly disgraceful, please bring back AN and the rest of the group. Now most of us in Aus don't have a choice, this is a national disaster.
Feel sorry for all the displaced workers caught out in this, hope it all works out for you all.
I guess Quantass are going to charge new pilot recruits $400-$700 now for an interview, ohh!! we are privileged, and then I guess you'll give us a second interview at the same cost.
What has Australian Aviation become!!!
Sorry Woomera, but they are pricks!
[ 26 September 2001: Message edited by: snoopy003 ]
Feel sorry for all the displaced workers caught out in this, hope it all works out for you all.
I guess Quantass are going to charge new pilot recruits $400-$700 now for an interview, ohh!! we are privileged, and then I guess you'll give us a second interview at the same cost.
What has Australian Aviation become!!!
Sorry Woomera, but they are pricks!
[ 26 September 2001: Message edited by: snoopy003 ]
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1) It's QANTAS, or perhaps Q.A.N.T.A.S.
2) Prices are high now owing to lack of capacity rather than lack of competition. Airlines have ticketing practices that effectively allow them to sell seats for what they can get for them. Too few seats means expensive seats. That's normal.
3) QF are not a charity, they are a business with an obligation to bring the best return in for their shareholders.
4) In common with the old Ansett QF are also not very efficient, with very high levels of manning and a management that is disinterested in reducing costs. That management has shown historically it prefers to crush competition rather than perform competitively.
Traditionally AN and QF have maintained near identical pricing and products, so that true competition has been absent in spite of deregulation.
The management behaviors of AN and QF are stunningly similar, and share a common (inefficient) culture. For instance until recently Ansett boss Gary Toomey worked for QANTAS.
Bringing back AN is not the answer.
Better to encourage credible and genuine competition in my opinion, without getting into selling seats below cost.
This will create a healthier industry with realistic pricing, and in the long term it will boost demand and create more jobs.
Thank goodness we have VB at least, maybe we need another like them too.
2) Prices are high now owing to lack of capacity rather than lack of competition. Airlines have ticketing practices that effectively allow them to sell seats for what they can get for them. Too few seats means expensive seats. That's normal.
3) QF are not a charity, they are a business with an obligation to bring the best return in for their shareholders.
4) In common with the old Ansett QF are also not very efficient, with very high levels of manning and a management that is disinterested in reducing costs. That management has shown historically it prefers to crush competition rather than perform competitively.
Traditionally AN and QF have maintained near identical pricing and products, so that true competition has been absent in spite of deregulation.
The management behaviors of AN and QF are stunningly similar, and share a common (inefficient) culture. For instance until recently Ansett boss Gary Toomey worked for QANTAS.
Bringing back AN is not the answer.
Better to encourage credible and genuine competition in my opinion, without getting into selling seats below cost.
This will create a healthier industry with realistic pricing, and in the long term it will boost demand and create more jobs.
Thank goodness we have VB at least, maybe we need another like them too.
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I booked yesterday on Qantas for SYD-MEL return for the weekend of 5-7 October. I got my return ticket for $201.74.
So much for there not being discount tickets in the marketplace. Qantas probably isn't required to offer these tickets at the moment, but they are, anyway.
Good on ya.
So much for there not being discount tickets in the marketplace. Qantas probably isn't required to offer these tickets at the moment, but they are, anyway.
Good on ya.
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It costs more to fly Adelaide - Perth than Adelaide - London!!!
But even Virgin airfares have gone up. There is a sign as you drive into adelaide airport that says "A year ago you paid double", Virgin this simply is a false claim, a year ago we paid half!
But even Virgin airfares have gone up. There is a sign as you drive into adelaide airport that says "A year ago you paid double", Virgin this simply is a false claim, a year ago we paid half!
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I hear a QANTAS spokesperson on the local radio (Cairns) saying that the prices have doubled because of supply and demand ie, they are supplying when there is a high demand.
I read your post and you say it is because of seating availability. (Much the same I guess)
Why then are flights into Cairns arriving with Pax numbers barely exceeding crew numbers?
No body in their right mind would pay the fares QANTAS are asking unless out of absolute necessity. Instead of helping travellers they are screwing them and they are screwing the Australian Tourism industry, particularly the tourism outside of Capital cities. The word predatory comes to mind again.
Is that smart management of any organisation? I feel it is not.
Many tourism businesses in Cairns alone have had a better than normal season to date but that has now come to a grinding halt. Hey, you might say that they should be able to ride out this temporary set back then … Unfortunately with a lot of tourist packages, they were booked through Ansett and it’s agents. These tourism and accommodation operators have not been paid yet as Ansett had (apparently) at least 90 day accounts with these people, so it maybe ‘good bye’ to many more jobs.
It may not be a Qantas problem, but Qantas will surely add to it if they don’t show some common sense in these times. I can understand some sort of increase in fares but to go as high as they have, is absolutely disgusting!
Edited after cooling off period!
[ 25 September 2001: Message edited by: sprocket ]
I hear a QANTAS spokesperson on the local radio (Cairns) saying that the prices have doubled because of supply and demand ie, they are supplying when there is a high demand.
I read your post and you say it is because of seating availability. (Much the same I guess)
Why then are flights into Cairns arriving with Pax numbers barely exceeding crew numbers?
No body in their right mind would pay the fares QANTAS are asking unless out of absolute necessity. Instead of helping travellers they are screwing them and they are screwing the Australian Tourism industry, particularly the tourism outside of Capital cities. The word predatory comes to mind again.
Is that smart management of any organisation? I feel it is not.
Many tourism businesses in Cairns alone have had a better than normal season to date but that has now come to a grinding halt. Hey, you might say that they should be able to ride out this temporary set back then … Unfortunately with a lot of tourist packages, they were booked through Ansett and it’s agents. These tourism and accommodation operators have not been paid yet as Ansett had (apparently) at least 90 day accounts with these people, so it maybe ‘good bye’ to many more jobs.
It may not be a Qantas problem, but Qantas will surely add to it if they don’t show some common sense in these times. I can understand some sort of increase in fares but to go as high as they have, is absolutely disgusting!
Edited after cooling off period!
[ 25 September 2001: Message edited by: sprocket ]
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Mr Sprocket, please enlighten me
what's a cruntas ?
If you are right about them not releasing cheap fares on lightly loaded flights I think the media and pollies should be given facts and data to back that up.
I don't use QF myself.
what's a cruntas ?
If you are right about them not releasing cheap fares on lightly loaded flights I think the media and pollies should be given facts and data to back that up.
I don't use QF myself.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Southern Cross
Compass
Ansett
Strange...I don't recall hearing the "Bring back Southern Cross/Compass" calls when those two were FORCED to shut down, following Ansett's and Qantas' PREDATORY PRICING battles!
The fares IMMEDIATELY rose back to pre-new entrant levels, and the cries of the employees who had their jobs snatched from them were disregarded by the incumbents employees - FREE MARKET COMPETITION was the term used, I believe!
Certainly SOMETHING will eventually fill the holes left by AN, in the meantime the FREE MARKET FORCES have Virgin Blue and QANTAS working at max. capacity.
Compass
Ansett
Strange...I don't recall hearing the "Bring back Southern Cross/Compass" calls when those two were FORCED to shut down, following Ansett's and Qantas' PREDATORY PRICING battles!
The fares IMMEDIATELY rose back to pre-new entrant levels, and the cries of the employees who had their jobs snatched from them were disregarded by the incumbents employees - FREE MARKET COMPETITION was the term used, I believe!
Certainly SOMETHING will eventually fill the holes left by AN, in the meantime the FREE MARKET FORCES have Virgin Blue and QANTAS working at max. capacity.
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Snoopy,
You appear to be one of the misinformed pig headed ones out there that I have had to deal with day in and day out because you choose to believe your own reasons for the apparentrise in fare costs on Qantas.
With every flight full to capacity and indeed most of them overbooked the last few seats are always sold at the full economy ( Y class ) fare, this has never been any different.....not on AN, DJ, VQ or Compass.....would Qantas still be operating if the whole aircraft was sold at $66 fares ? I am sure you know the answer to that......just look at the Boeing 717's at your local airport in their new livery for the answer as to what happens if you do.
QF has uplifted large amounts of passengers on free tickets because they were stranded, not one of these Ansett pax seemed to complain about the Qantas service or new Ansett reaccommodation fares provided for them should they need to pay for one. If you ask for the impossible......i.e - SYD-MEL 1800hours on a friday night for a discount fare then any punter knows that there is only going to be $$$ seats left......
If you have always boycotted QF then please continue to do so.....not sure that we need someone with your negative spirit and lack of knowledge as tech crew on QF a/c.
Comments made in the spirit of this forum.
CABINBOY
You appear to be one of the misinformed pig headed ones out there that I have had to deal with day in and day out because you choose to believe your own reasons for the apparentrise in fare costs on Qantas.
With every flight full to capacity and indeed most of them overbooked the last few seats are always sold at the full economy ( Y class ) fare, this has never been any different.....not on AN, DJ, VQ or Compass.....would Qantas still be operating if the whole aircraft was sold at $66 fares ? I am sure you know the answer to that......just look at the Boeing 717's at your local airport in their new livery for the answer as to what happens if you do.
QF has uplifted large amounts of passengers on free tickets because they were stranded, not one of these Ansett pax seemed to complain about the Qantas service or new Ansett reaccommodation fares provided for them should they need to pay for one. If you ask for the impossible......i.e - SYD-MEL 1800hours on a friday night for a discount fare then any punter knows that there is only going to be $$$ seats left......
If you have always boycotted QF then please continue to do so.....not sure that we need someone with your negative spirit and lack of knowledge as tech crew on QF a/c.
Comments made in the spirit of this forum.
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Well said cabinboy;QF should be getting praise for the 45000+ free tickets provided to AN customers,not vitreol.I too want to see AN resurrected because there are some very good people there and many of the comments posted here don't do them justice. 
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Good call cabinboy and Henry..
A few salient points for the knockers to consider:
1/: Every extra QF flight has been laid on with the full mix of usual discount seats according to their normal yield policy.
2/: The fares have NOT increased. When the cheaper seats have filled, the remaining ones are and have always been more expensive.
3/: QF are operating on some markets full inbound with the normal mix and 50% loaded on the return.
4/: They could have told AN passengers worldwide to go pound sand up their butts and didnt. They carried tens of thousands free.
5:/ Their staff and computer systems have been stretched 75% beyond their normal capacity - and the staff when you can get them - IF you give them an even break have been better than I can remember in the last 10 years. They are finally a team again.
6:/ New regional markets that the could concievably have ignored have been opened overnight. Some may consider this opportunistic but more dollars would have been available on turboprop friendly shorter trunk routes.
Basically, despite the howls of those who do not know how an Airline operates, the Rat has shone and performed beautifully. It will no doubt reap the benefits in years to come, but they could have been much much more opportunistic than they have been.
I stand amazed - and for those that paid the full dollar value for a fare for the first time in their lives - SURPRISE!!!!!! They have always been there and many business people find themselves paying that rate all the time with a short booking profile.
Might I suggest all check out the "last minute fares in the US and European markets during peak periods. Stand by to be really scared.
Here endeth the lecture.
Regards all.
EWL
A few salient points for the knockers to consider:
1/: Every extra QF flight has been laid on with the full mix of usual discount seats according to their normal yield policy.
2/: The fares have NOT increased. When the cheaper seats have filled, the remaining ones are and have always been more expensive.
3/: QF are operating on some markets full inbound with the normal mix and 50% loaded on the return.
4/: They could have told AN passengers worldwide to go pound sand up their butts and didnt. They carried tens of thousands free.
5:/ Their staff and computer systems have been stretched 75% beyond their normal capacity - and the staff when you can get them - IF you give them an even break have been better than I can remember in the last 10 years. They are finally a team again.
6:/ New regional markets that the could concievably have ignored have been opened overnight. Some may consider this opportunistic but more dollars would have been available on turboprop friendly shorter trunk routes.
Basically, despite the howls of those who do not know how an Airline operates, the Rat has shone and performed beautifully. It will no doubt reap the benefits in years to come, but they could have been much much more opportunistic than they have been.
I stand amazed - and for those that paid the full dollar value for a fare for the first time in their lives - SURPRISE!!!!!! They have always been there and many business people find themselves paying that rate all the time with a short booking profile.
Might I suggest all check out the "last minute fares in the US and European markets during peak periods. Stand by to be really scared.
Here endeth the lecture.
Regards all.
EWL
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Professor EWL
Well lectured and spot on.
I can personally testify to the scary last minute US/European fares.
Had to make an "last minute" unscheduled dash from Dallas to Wichita (about an hours flight) Y class at equivalent Oz J class fare for the distance. Fair took my breath away. The booking person said if I had booked a couple of hours earlier or if I could go a little later I would/could have saved over 50%.
Did get to meet the Dodgers baseball team though and got my Dodgers baseball cap autographed.
Nah snoop, ops normal mate.
My daughter had confirmed seats, bought and paid for Ansett APEX tickets from Bris to Perth return to come home for Christmas so she could drink my wine and beer.
Qantas came good with confirmed flights around about the same dates AND only an extra $140 on the Ansett fare of around $700.
Cant complain about that.
QF are much too smart to profiteer.
Well lectured and spot on.
I can personally testify to the scary last minute US/European fares.
Had to make an "last minute" unscheduled dash from Dallas to Wichita (about an hours flight) Y class at equivalent Oz J class fare for the distance. Fair took my breath away. The booking person said if I had booked a couple of hours earlier or if I could go a little later I would/could have saved over 50%.
Did get to meet the Dodgers baseball team though and got my Dodgers baseball cap autographed.
Nah snoop, ops normal mate.
My daughter had confirmed seats, bought and paid for Ansett APEX tickets from Bris to Perth return to come home for Christmas so she could drink my wine and beer.
Qantas came good with confirmed flights around about the same dates AND only an extra $140 on the Ansett fare of around $700.
Cant complain about that.
QF are much too smart to profiteer.
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Well, I dont think the AN crew and pax stranded who paxed home on my flight free of charge were too upset by QF's reaction to the Ansett crisis.
And if QF were being predatory, I doubt they would have just handed over all the Skywest RPT routes back to Skywest when they got their F50s back into the air, no - they wouldve kept jets on the services and knocked Skywest for 6.
The fact that only full-fare seats are available on a lot of sectors is simple maths, there are only a certain number of low-cost (aka no money making fares) seats on each aircraft, and as in any situation were there is higher than normal demand for seats, these cheap seats sell out rather quickly (eg Grand Final, Easter, Christmas, Friday evening SYD-MEL). If Ansett was still running over the weekend, just try and get a cheap seat on short notice, with any carrier from BNE-MEL on the Friday beore the AFL Grand Final, you'd be unpleasantly surprised.
If QF was wanting to be predatory, was taking advantage of the situation, they would not have honoured any AN tickets (nor did they have to).
QF is just responding to the situation, unfortunately with 40% of the capacity instantly missing from the Australian domestic aviation market, flights become rather full, rather quickly. You cannot expect there to be a low-yield, cheap seat avilable at short notice. QF has put on 270 extra flights since AN went belly-up, and still cant meet the capacity yet.
QF is still a business, they have to make a profit, which means having high-yield seats on every flight, unfortunately they are they are the last to sell, and for some people the only option.
Once the capacity shortfall is filled, either by us, AN, VB, someone entirely new or a combination of all - there will be again excess capacity, and the fare system will get back to normal. But with us or AN, if you ever needed a seat at short notice, you always had to pay more.
Instead of whinging about the cost you paid for your ticket, maybe you should look at the bigger picture in life..... some of my friends from AN are facing not being able to afford to pay their mortgages, let alone to buy an airline ticket.
My humble opinion, only ;
Good Luck to all at AN.
And if QF were being predatory, I doubt they would have just handed over all the Skywest RPT routes back to Skywest when they got their F50s back into the air, no - they wouldve kept jets on the services and knocked Skywest for 6.
The fact that only full-fare seats are available on a lot of sectors is simple maths, there are only a certain number of low-cost (aka no money making fares) seats on each aircraft, and as in any situation were there is higher than normal demand for seats, these cheap seats sell out rather quickly (eg Grand Final, Easter, Christmas, Friday evening SYD-MEL). If Ansett was still running over the weekend, just try and get a cheap seat on short notice, with any carrier from BNE-MEL on the Friday beore the AFL Grand Final, you'd be unpleasantly surprised.
If QF was wanting to be predatory, was taking advantage of the situation, they would not have honoured any AN tickets (nor did they have to).
QF is just responding to the situation, unfortunately with 40% of the capacity instantly missing from the Australian domestic aviation market, flights become rather full, rather quickly. You cannot expect there to be a low-yield, cheap seat avilable at short notice. QF has put on 270 extra flights since AN went belly-up, and still cant meet the capacity yet.
QF is still a business, they have to make a profit, which means having high-yield seats on every flight, unfortunately they are they are the last to sell, and for some people the only option.
Once the capacity shortfall is filled, either by us, AN, VB, someone entirely new or a combination of all - there will be again excess capacity, and the fare system will get back to normal. But with us or AN, if you ever needed a seat at short notice, you always had to pay more.
Instead of whinging about the cost you paid for your ticket, maybe you should look at the bigger picture in life..... some of my friends from AN are facing not being able to afford to pay their mortgages, let alone to buy an airline ticket.
My humble opinion, only ;
Good Luck to all at AN.
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Thank you to Henry, Eastwest Loco, Evacu8 and gaunty for your clarification.
My post occurred while still fuming over comments made on a local radio talkback. The tourism industry here is a tad touchy after the sufferings of ’89. Your posts have obviously put a better perspective on the Qantas side of things.
Maybe the QF PR department hasn’t caught up with it all yet.
My post occurred while still fuming over comments made on a local radio talkback. The tourism industry here is a tad touchy after the sufferings of ’89. Your posts have obviously put a better perspective on the Qantas side of things.
Maybe the QF PR department hasn’t caught up with it all yet.
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More clarification of OPS Normal, mainly to help frustrated SLF understand.
Explanation is based on personal experience of travel worldwide, not of QF in particular as I don't need airlines for domestic travel.
Here goes...
When a scheduled flight goes on the computer reservations system a quite limited number of seats are offered at the cheap prices.
They may well sell out quite early on. The number of unsold seats on the flight is reviewed periodically, and if that number appears to be a bit high more seats are released at the lower fares.
The cycle continues until all the seats are sold, or the flight actually departs.
This is where your agent can be a real helper. If you turn up to make your booking and are told sorry no seats left at the cheaper fares ask how full the flight is.
If you are told it's near full then accept the fact that you are going to have to buy a full fare ticket.
On the other hand if you are told the flight is half empty go home and try for a discounted fare another day- you may well catch the next release of cheaper seats.
Don't know if QF work exactly like this, and the situation is complicated by the likelihood that you are making a two-way journey and so need to get cheap seats on two flights.
Whatever QF do... show a little leg to your agent, be as flexible as you can, smile sweetly and let her/him get the best possible outcome for you.
Explanation is based on personal experience of travel worldwide, not of QF in particular as I don't need airlines for domestic travel.
Here goes...
When a scheduled flight goes on the computer reservations system a quite limited number of seats are offered at the cheap prices.
They may well sell out quite early on. The number of unsold seats on the flight is reviewed periodically, and if that number appears to be a bit high more seats are released at the lower fares.
The cycle continues until all the seats are sold, or the flight actually departs.
This is where your agent can be a real helper. If you turn up to make your booking and are told sorry no seats left at the cheaper fares ask how full the flight is.
If you are told it's near full then accept the fact that you are going to have to buy a full fare ticket.
On the other hand if you are told the flight is half empty go home and try for a discounted fare another day- you may well catch the next release of cheaper seats.
Don't know if QF work exactly like this, and the situation is complicated by the likelihood that you are making a two-way journey and so need to get cheap seats on two flights.
Whatever QF do... show a little leg to your agent, be as flexible as you can, smile sweetly and let her/him get the best possible outcome for you.
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Cabin, Chips, & Kaptin,
Points well taken, I have always appreciated the fare structures of airlines, but I guess I was just shell shocked at the prices.
Cabin if you get to fly with me as crew or as a passenger you won't even know I'm there, I'm normally the well behaved type that doesn't even ring the bell to hasel the cabin crew, because I know your job is hard enough as it is.
But cabin you'll probably never fly with me as crew, as I bluntly refuse to pay QF's extortion, they charge to new up & coming young new recruits. My loss maybe, but it is my personal stand against them.
Kaptin, bring back Compass I & II that would be the best thing in Aus aviation, but sadly it isn't going to happen. Hawke & that Fat F**K Ables saw to that.
And lastly I wish the best to 15700 AN employees I hope it works out for you all.
And Australia cannot let Quantass get this monopoly un-contested.
Competition has to be brought in.
Points well taken, I have always appreciated the fare structures of airlines, but I guess I was just shell shocked at the prices.
Cabin if you get to fly with me as crew or as a passenger you won't even know I'm there, I'm normally the well behaved type that doesn't even ring the bell to hasel the cabin crew, because I know your job is hard enough as it is.
But cabin you'll probably never fly with me as crew, as I bluntly refuse to pay QF's extortion, they charge to new up & coming young new recruits. My loss maybe, but it is my personal stand against them.
Kaptin, bring back Compass I & II that would be the best thing in Aus aviation, but sadly it isn't going to happen. Hawke & that Fat F**K Ables saw to that.
And lastly I wish the best to 15700 AN employees I hope it works out for you all.
And Australia cannot let Quantass get this monopoly un-contested.
Competition has to be brought in.
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There are a few things you lot have missed.
The first is that if Qantas is offering any discount seats there will not be too meny and only to keep the ATTTC happy.
Lets face it they are out to make as much money out of this as they can.
Although publically Qantas has to show compassion, privatily it has been putting the boot into Ansett when it is down.They would love Ansett to dye.
This has been shown in there attempts to lease the A320's. Origionally Qantas wantad the aircraft fore a song and finally setteled on $6250 an hour wet lease for them.
How much money would they make at this price when they put 120 full fare pax on them,lots.
At that price also Ansett would only be covering costs.
The first is that if Qantas is offering any discount seats there will not be too meny and only to keep the ATTTC happy.
Lets face it they are out to make as much money out of this as they can.
Although publically Qantas has to show compassion, privatily it has been putting the boot into Ansett when it is down.They would love Ansett to dye.
This has been shown in there attempts to lease the A320's. Origionally Qantas wantad the aircraft fore a song and finally setteled on $6250 an hour wet lease for them.
How much money would they make at this price when they put 120 full fare pax on them,lots.
At that price also Ansett would only be covering costs.
