Ansett FO's will never be Captains.
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Kaptain M,still have that reading problem I see!!
Your boring as Bat sh!t with your constant contemptable dribble with your Ancient history banter that only you and a couple of you drinking buddies care about.. .From now on I'll skip over your posts.You have constantly proved that you are in fact not interested in "Informed Debate".. .I expect your years of frustration stem from the realisation that in fact you to should have returned.. .If in future you wish to associate my handle with your boring banter I would ensure that you get the Facts correct rather than making them up as you go to make your stories sound more credible.
Good Day to you KAPTAIN m. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
Your boring as Bat sh!t with your constant contemptable dribble with your Ancient history banter that only you and a couple of you drinking buddies care about.. .From now on I'll skip over your posts.You have constantly proved that you are in fact not interested in "Informed Debate".. .I expect your years of frustration stem from the realisation that in fact you to should have returned.. .If in future you wish to associate my handle with your boring banter I would ensure that you get the Facts correct rather than making them up as you go to make your stories sound more credible.
Good Day to you KAPTAIN m. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
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JAMIE...my apoligies for you thread being hijaked.
My Two Cents Worth... .I would expect that our fearless Leaders in Flt Dept will shortly have to produce a policy(in association with the APA <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> )regarding upgrades.This policy will have some time limit as to when Direct Entry Captains will no longer be employed.It could be six months,it could be one year,it could be longer.But with every FO employed by Tesna lobbying,this policy will come sooner than later.. .If you can take some similarities of the Collapse with the Dispute you will find that back then Direct Entry Captains were stopped about 12 months from the start.
My Two Cents Worth... .I would expect that our fearless Leaders in Flt Dept will shortly have to produce a policy(in association with the APA <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> )regarding upgrades.This policy will have some time limit as to when Direct Entry Captains will no longer be employed.It could be six months,it could be one year,it could be longer.But with every FO employed by Tesna lobbying,this policy will come sooner than later.. .If you can take some similarities of the Collapse with the Dispute you will find that back then Direct Entry Captains were stopped about 12 months from the start.
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"Whether it be to choose to be an AFAP rep or part of management one always has to look at the quality of whom you may have to associate with."
Dear FSU,. .Unlike you and your fellow scabs, I am unable to claim the moral high ground in choosing the quality of those in management or in the AFAP. But, if that is your criterion for NOT becoming involved in the AFAP, and rectifying your perception of corruption within it, then I feel even more pity for you than just for being a scab.
"Not really impressed with either option especially not to associate with an AFAP person grovelling around on the floor trying to look up the skirts of ladies at a social function. Nor am I impressed with a leader who ends up on a drink driving charge when maximum concentration was required in his role."
I am reminded, by this comment, of the Pharisee and the Publican. I do not think you fit the role of the Publican.. .To suggest this as an excuse to scab is about as low as you can get. For it yet continues to deny the right of all those on whom you turned your back, the right to return to work.. .You can only be the epitome of the "I care only for me" mentality.
"Worst of all were the lies denying that contract pilots were flooding into the country and that all jobs would be regained."
The truth also is, FSU, that had NO one scabbed, the thought of all the domestic pilots being foreigners, in Australian domestic airlines, would have been an anathema to even the likes of some members of that disgraceful body the ACTU. It was only you, and your ilk, FSU, that gave the foreign scabs any credence for being in the country. And remember, you were the ones who were happy to work with them, while deliberately acquiescing to the demand of your company to deny the existence of your Australian colleagues.
. ."That was untrue the moment the resignations were lodged and accepted."
Claptrap.
"Kap M raised the argument about senior pilots displacing junior pilots. Not only did AFAP pilots push aside GA pilots and in some cases intimidate junior pilots but "reserved" their "rightful place" as well. Are you trying to distract attention from the inconsistencies of some of Kap M's views which was the point of my last post."
First, and this has also been addressed in different threads, the small numbers of airline members who went to GA was small compared to the number going the other way, and whom, no doubt, you yourself trained with glee.. .There are no inconsistences in KM's reply, but it is to be expected you would claim there to be.
"Would have thought by now that you had learned that personal abuse does not work. Pay attention to the facts."
Personal abuse has not been a part of my responses, but it is always a good throw away line for scabs to use to seek justification from whomever might feel so inclined to give it to you.
It is pity I feel, for you and your kind, for as I indicated, the cesspit of the scabs is a deep one indeed, for there is never any escape.. . <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
Dear FSU,. .Unlike you and your fellow scabs, I am unable to claim the moral high ground in choosing the quality of those in management or in the AFAP. But, if that is your criterion for NOT becoming involved in the AFAP, and rectifying your perception of corruption within it, then I feel even more pity for you than just for being a scab.
"Not really impressed with either option especially not to associate with an AFAP person grovelling around on the floor trying to look up the skirts of ladies at a social function. Nor am I impressed with a leader who ends up on a drink driving charge when maximum concentration was required in his role."
I am reminded, by this comment, of the Pharisee and the Publican. I do not think you fit the role of the Publican.. .To suggest this as an excuse to scab is about as low as you can get. For it yet continues to deny the right of all those on whom you turned your back, the right to return to work.. .You can only be the epitome of the "I care only for me" mentality.
"Worst of all were the lies denying that contract pilots were flooding into the country and that all jobs would be regained."
The truth also is, FSU, that had NO one scabbed, the thought of all the domestic pilots being foreigners, in Australian domestic airlines, would have been an anathema to even the likes of some members of that disgraceful body the ACTU. It was only you, and your ilk, FSU, that gave the foreign scabs any credence for being in the country. And remember, you were the ones who were happy to work with them, while deliberately acquiescing to the demand of your company to deny the existence of your Australian colleagues.
. ."That was untrue the moment the resignations were lodged and accepted."
Claptrap.
"Kap M raised the argument about senior pilots displacing junior pilots. Not only did AFAP pilots push aside GA pilots and in some cases intimidate junior pilots but "reserved" their "rightful place" as well. Are you trying to distract attention from the inconsistencies of some of Kap M's views which was the point of my last post."
First, and this has also been addressed in different threads, the small numbers of airline members who went to GA was small compared to the number going the other way, and whom, no doubt, you yourself trained with glee.. .There are no inconsistences in KM's reply, but it is to be expected you would claim there to be.
"Would have thought by now that you had learned that personal abuse does not work. Pay attention to the facts."
Personal abuse has not been a part of my responses, but it is always a good throw away line for scabs to use to seek justification from whomever might feel so inclined to give it to you.
It is pity I feel, for you and your kind, for as I indicated, the cesspit of the scabs is a deep one indeed, for there is never any escape.. . <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
LOL {laugh out loud!} at Thumbs Up`s posts. In the first he states:. . [quote](Kaptin M)Your boring as Bat sh!t with your constant contemptable dribble with your Ancient history banter (1989) that only you and a couple of you drinking buddies care about.<hr></blockquote>
But in the (his) immediate next one goes on to write:. . [quote]JAMIE...my apoligies for you thread being hijaked.
I would expect that our fearless Leaders in Flt Dept will shortly have to produce a policy(in association with the APA regarding upgrades.This policy will have some time limit as to when Direct Entry Captains will no longer be employed.
If you can take some similarities of the Collapse with the Dispute you will find that back then Direct Entry Captains were stopped about 12 months from the start.<hr></blockquote>
BTW FSU, it must be glaringly obvious to ALL that the leaders YOU and your ilk chose were of far better moral fibre than the AFAP`s representative spokespersons - Brian McCarthy, John Raby and Noel Holt.
Let`s recall those whom YOU chose to follow - Bob Hawke, Bill Kelty, Peter Abeles.. .And then for good measure the post `89 APA office bearers, who have jockied themselves and their scabby "mates" into salaried full-time jobs.
Akin to the Federation`s actions in the Dispute year, I`m sure <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> that the APA employed pilots have set up a fund that allows UNEMPLOYED pilots in financial straits to be given monetary assistance.. .Ask Clive - he`ll remember how it aided him. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
But in the (his) immediate next one goes on to write:. . [quote]JAMIE...my apoligies for you thread being hijaked.
I would expect that our fearless Leaders in Flt Dept will shortly have to produce a policy(in association with the APA regarding upgrades.This policy will have some time limit as to when Direct Entry Captains will no longer be employed.
If you can take some similarities of the Collapse with the Dispute you will find that back then Direct Entry Captains were stopped about 12 months from the start.<hr></blockquote>
BTW FSU, it must be glaringly obvious to ALL that the leaders YOU and your ilk chose were of far better moral fibre than the AFAP`s representative spokespersons - Brian McCarthy, John Raby and Noel Holt.
Let`s recall those whom YOU chose to follow - Bob Hawke, Bill Kelty, Peter Abeles.. .And then for good measure the post `89 APA office bearers, who have jockied themselves and their scabby "mates" into salaried full-time jobs.
Akin to the Federation`s actions in the Dispute year, I`m sure <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> that the APA employed pilots have set up a fund that allows UNEMPLOYED pilots in financial straits to be given monetary assistance.. .Ask Clive - he`ll remember how it aided him. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
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Just to put some clarity into TTT's statement regarding the "few" Airline Pilots taking GA jobs; in about November '89, the CP at the GA company that I worked for showed me the mountain of applications from the ex-airline guys that he had received. Some of the CVs made an incredible read. Some very experienced guys applying to work at a company that had a C172, C402s, PA31s and 1 turbine type. Remember also that when AFAP said that its members shoild re-apply for their jobs back, the Airlines announced that they would not employ any additional pre-loved pilots. This was a promise that they kept except for a few notable cases(the so-called 'dirty dozen') (I wonder if this this going bring a plethora of accusations of "re-writing history" from the usual suspects?).I might as well add that this latest angst regrding promotions is a small part of the reason that I elected not to go back to AN. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
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Ex airline pilots were not in the minority in GA in 89 they were everywhere. I remember one in particular who had flown to Albury in a Golden Eagle which was SH to me as a humble Duchess driver showing me his 5 cent clicker and what he would do to a "returnee" if he saw one! Back to the main topic though it is absolute rubbish that AN FO's will never be Captains. AN is starting with a 30 plane fleet and the only place (if it survives)is up from there. I think most of the agitation about this issue has come from the A320 F/O's who still flew during the last 5 months and not from the guys who were forced to find alternative employment during the "stand down".
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Jamie320200...... Any F/O that has a job at the moment should be thankful that they have a job ! It may not be ideal ! The selection process may not have been fair.....BUT they get to stay in Oz (if that's what they want)& they have an income...half our number DID NOT GET A JOB....and all they are worried about is getting their arse into the LH seat.......well I'm almost lost for words again !
It is my own personal opinion that we should have been employed on "start date" with junior Captains being given the option of the right hand seat.
As I have said B4....I don't claim to have the answers.
It is my own personal opinion that we should have been employed on "start date" with junior Captains being given the option of the right hand seat.
As I have said B4....I don't claim to have the answers.
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AN CAPTAIN
Pull your head in.
If you wanted last on first off you should have stuck with the AFAP in 89.Put up with the culture you have created.
Thought you might forgive a few F/O`s with perceived self interest as some AN CAPTAINS` rapid promotion a lesson to us all!
How about a correlation of your feelings and thoughts during the dispute to the circumstances of F/Os now.
Pull your head in.
If you wanted last on first off you should have stuck with the AFAP in 89.Put up with the culture you have created.
Thought you might forgive a few F/O`s with perceived self interest as some AN CAPTAINS` rapid promotion a lesson to us all!
How about a correlation of your feelings and thoughts during the dispute to the circumstances of F/Os now.
Well, I guess that you will be pleased to hear that some of the Ansett F/O's that joined Virgin after the collapse are doing their commands as we speak.
These commands are additional to the already large number of "virgin" F/O's making the transition - so they are not cutting anyones grass as it were.
Had these people stayed in Ansett (assuming that they were given the choice) they would, I assume, be years away from the LHS.
Good luck to all those in DJ doing their upgrades!
These commands are additional to the already large number of "virgin" F/O's making the transition - so they are not cutting anyones grass as it were.
Had these people stayed in Ansett (assuming that they were given the choice) they would, I assume, be years away from the LHS.
Good luck to all those in DJ doing their upgrades!
I suppose it depends on your point of view.
If you look at the number of people going through and the number falling over I'd say the number way pretty small.
It certainly is no worse than QF or AN when it was running properly.
But then the rumours had Virgin on Cash for fuel and Skyhawk XP has then falling over on September 21st - so who knows!
[ 19 February 2002: Message edited by: Dehavillanddriver ]</p>
If you look at the number of people going through and the number falling over I'd say the number way pretty small.
It certainly is no worse than QF or AN when it was running properly.
But then the rumours had Virgin on Cash for fuel and Skyhawk XP has then falling over on September 21st - so who knows!
[ 19 February 2002: Message edited by: Dehavillanddriver ]</p>
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FSU and mates,
. .History, History, History.…
Set out below are a few of the lessons which were paid for in real actual red blood over the nearly 100 years since flying began
_ The importance of checking the top of the wing for ice
_ Carby heat…life saver
_ Don’t get low and slow
_ JT8Ds do take a looooooong time to spool up
_ Ice at night over high ground can kill you
_ Don’t even trust your own mother if she tells you she’s taken out the control locks….check them yourself.
_ Three useless things: sky above, runway behind, fuel back in the tanker
_ Pass on the things you learned today to your mates
_ Double check if there’s any doubt
_ Real men do make missed approaches
_ Have one last think as you cross the fence…it’s not too late to do it again or divert
_ “She’ll be right” is not a standard pilot phrase if you want a long life
_ Never turn back to land if you have an engine failure on a single
_ Takeoff and land into the wind
_ If you think you’ve damaged something…put it in the maintenance release and tell a mechanic
Those of you who think that 1989 is “Old, never to be repeated history” should also try to prove any of the above ideas wrong. Give us a yell…we’ll have a barbie and watch from the edge of the runway as you do in fact learn from history. Let’s have your dental records first though. Truth and facts don’t change and neither do outcomes..
For it is an absolute fact that when the skull and crossbones was run up the flagpole of the Lodge in 1989 as Bob and Bill and Sir Peter sipped fine champagne (thank you taxpayers!) and planned a war of attrition against Australia’s pilots…we were all threatened.
It was time then, as always, for pilots to remember that other golden rule which will be with us as long as Lift = CL 1/2 rho V2 S.
Look after your fellow pilots because in the end they’re all you have.
Forget that, like all the other rules, at your peril.
Good luck to all professional Ansett pilots.
Viastra
Look after your fellow pilots because in the end they’re all you have. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
[ 19 February 2002: Message edited by: Viastra ]</p>
. .History, History, History.…
Set out below are a few of the lessons which were paid for in real actual red blood over the nearly 100 years since flying began
_ The importance of checking the top of the wing for ice
_ Carby heat…life saver
_ Don’t get low and slow
_ JT8Ds do take a looooooong time to spool up
_ Ice at night over high ground can kill you
_ Don’t even trust your own mother if she tells you she’s taken out the control locks….check them yourself.
_ Three useless things: sky above, runway behind, fuel back in the tanker
_ Pass on the things you learned today to your mates
_ Double check if there’s any doubt
_ Real men do make missed approaches
_ Have one last think as you cross the fence…it’s not too late to do it again or divert
_ “She’ll be right” is not a standard pilot phrase if you want a long life
_ Never turn back to land if you have an engine failure on a single
_ Takeoff and land into the wind
_ If you think you’ve damaged something…put it in the maintenance release and tell a mechanic
Those of you who think that 1989 is “Old, never to be repeated history” should also try to prove any of the above ideas wrong. Give us a yell…we’ll have a barbie and watch from the edge of the runway as you do in fact learn from history. Let’s have your dental records first though. Truth and facts don’t change and neither do outcomes..
For it is an absolute fact that when the skull and crossbones was run up the flagpole of the Lodge in 1989 as Bob and Bill and Sir Peter sipped fine champagne (thank you taxpayers!) and planned a war of attrition against Australia’s pilots…we were all threatened.
It was time then, as always, for pilots to remember that other golden rule which will be with us as long as Lift = CL 1/2 rho V2 S.
Look after your fellow pilots because in the end they’re all you have.
Forget that, like all the other rules, at your peril.
Good luck to all professional Ansett pilots.
Viastra
Look after your fellow pilots because in the end they’re all you have. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
[ 19 February 2002: Message edited by: Viastra ]</p>
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I commend ALL who went back to AN and AA in '89.
At least they had the sense to realize when the game was lost.
If I was employing pilots, I'd be employing those who made the decision to give up the fight and know when they were beaten - beaten to pulp in fact!
One could argue that if you needed to be told when you could/should go back to work, then you weren't the right person for the job.
I'm back in the trench waiting for the fire to start, as it inevitably will from TTT, KM, Spad etc.
[ 19 February 2002: Message edited by: Kaptin_X ]</p>
At least they had the sense to realize when the game was lost.
If I was employing pilots, I'd be employing those who made the decision to give up the fight and know when they were beaten - beaten to pulp in fact!
One could argue that if you needed to be told when you could/should go back to work, then you weren't the right person for the job.
I'm back in the trench waiting for the fire to start, as it inevitably will from TTT, KM, Spad etc.
[ 19 February 2002: Message edited by: Kaptin_X ]</p>
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Kaptin X.
May I disagree?
I trust that you have read “Fate is the Hunter”?. .I just happened to have an old edition of the 1989 “Go Around” handy and I came across these words from the editorial pages. Can you explain to me in whatever level of detail you feel up to, what exactly is wrong with this? Seems awfully good stuff to me.
The “give up when you know you’re beaten” line doesn’t seem the sort of thing I want in the cockpit next to me. Not if things get tough. If there’s flames licking at my backside or some armed thug trying to get in to my cockpit I want the guy next to me helping not running.. .Anyway, I haven’t checked your details so maybe you’re not a pilot and don’t know better. If you are a pilot and would like to know better try reading “Fate is the Hunter”, “Flying the Line” and a few similar books then we can have another chat.
Cheers
Viastra
"ANYONE CAN DO THE JOB WHEN THINGS ARE GOING RIGHT"
"We pass over the cone of silence at Newark with very little meandering, once I have pinned down the leg.........then as we start the turn for the final descent, which is always the most complicated and demanding in accuracy, Ross takes a box of matches from his pocket and lights them one after another just under my nose......it is difficult to see the instruments beyond the flame and Ross holds it just close enough to make breathing difficult.....As we turn in for the final descent I shove the propellor controls to full low pitch .We are exactly at the required altitude, the speed is right, and also the course. Ross shakes out his match and sits back in his seat. I glance at him, my resentment doubling when I discover him smiling. We will have this out on the ground! ........ .When the engines are stopped I complete the logbook in wounded silence...... . I snap the logbook shut and am about to stand up when I feel his heavy hand on my shoulder.......his voice is surprisingly tired and so is his smile.....
" Anyone can do the job when things are going right. In this business we play for keeps". . . . . . ( Fate is the Hunter: Ernest K. Gann )
Most of us have read Gann's immortal work and those with more than a few hours will have already learned the truth of his words. But the words don't just apply to difficult times in the air, they cover our whole lives as pilots. And the clear message is that you don't give up just because the going gets tough, or because some apparently "easy" option presents itself.
Our profession, our pride, our commitment to each other, our heritage and our future as pilots; all are based on this one theme of "seeing it through." Sadly, to the SCAB, Gann's words are lost; for these grey and timid souls know nothing of a world, our world, where our standards as men and women of the air are chiselled in stone. For the SCAB, opportunism and self justification have replaced selflessness and reliability. . .For them, the lighted match is the signal flare of surrender.. .Let us all pray that the passengers never see at first hand the chilling consequences of an airline system based on pilots whose commitment to professional standards might be no greater than their loyalty to their former comrades!
May I disagree?
I trust that you have read “Fate is the Hunter”?. .I just happened to have an old edition of the 1989 “Go Around” handy and I came across these words from the editorial pages. Can you explain to me in whatever level of detail you feel up to, what exactly is wrong with this? Seems awfully good stuff to me.
The “give up when you know you’re beaten” line doesn’t seem the sort of thing I want in the cockpit next to me. Not if things get tough. If there’s flames licking at my backside or some armed thug trying to get in to my cockpit I want the guy next to me helping not running.. .Anyway, I haven’t checked your details so maybe you’re not a pilot and don’t know better. If you are a pilot and would like to know better try reading “Fate is the Hunter”, “Flying the Line” and a few similar books then we can have another chat.
Cheers
Viastra
"ANYONE CAN DO THE JOB WHEN THINGS ARE GOING RIGHT"
"We pass over the cone of silence at Newark with very little meandering, once I have pinned down the leg.........then as we start the turn for the final descent, which is always the most complicated and demanding in accuracy, Ross takes a box of matches from his pocket and lights them one after another just under my nose......it is difficult to see the instruments beyond the flame and Ross holds it just close enough to make breathing difficult.....As we turn in for the final descent I shove the propellor controls to full low pitch .We are exactly at the required altitude, the speed is right, and also the course. Ross shakes out his match and sits back in his seat. I glance at him, my resentment doubling when I discover him smiling. We will have this out on the ground! ........ .When the engines are stopped I complete the logbook in wounded silence...... . I snap the logbook shut and am about to stand up when I feel his heavy hand on my shoulder.......his voice is surprisingly tired and so is his smile.....
" Anyone can do the job when things are going right. In this business we play for keeps". . . . . . ( Fate is the Hunter: Ernest K. Gann )
Most of us have read Gann's immortal work and those with more than a few hours will have already learned the truth of his words. But the words don't just apply to difficult times in the air, they cover our whole lives as pilots. And the clear message is that you don't give up just because the going gets tough, or because some apparently "easy" option presents itself.
Our profession, our pride, our commitment to each other, our heritage and our future as pilots; all are based on this one theme of "seeing it through." Sadly, to the SCAB, Gann's words are lost; for these grey and timid souls know nothing of a world, our world, where our standards as men and women of the air are chiselled in stone. For the SCAB, opportunism and self justification have replaced selflessness and reliability. . .For them, the lighted match is the signal flare of surrender.. .Let us all pray that the passengers never see at first hand the chilling consequences of an airline system based on pilots whose commitment to professional standards might be no greater than their loyalty to their former comrades!
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Not to disappointment KX.. .However, Viastra has already covered most points.. .Yes - just what an employer, the likes of Abeles, and now Foxy and Solly, wants - pulped pilots! <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
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I'm commenting as if I WAS one of them, and I was, and I am damned proud of it. I haven't regretted that decision for one minute although I only enjoyed the ride for about 8 years before I bailed for greener pastures. Those AN pastures were certainly green for a long time.
As to the second para - you're confused. 'Tis not me.
The fact is that the airlines back in 89 were going to get up with or without the AFAP input. If it hadn't been the 300 or so who did get jobs, it would have been a different 300 or so. Don't forget that many who applied early and were rejected then became the radicals and red raggers for the 'cause'. If only some of their'comrades' knew, there'd be riots in many an overseas airline.
Every employer wants pulped employees. It's part of the game, and for the past couple of years, 'bash your pilots' seems to have been a regular recreational pursuit amongst the airline managements of the world. Sad but true.
How long do you resist? Who knows. When somebody else comes along with a US$100M+ bit of equipment who says he'd like you to fly it and he'll treat you better, I suppose.
It all comes under the category of 'that's life!'
Life's a $hit sandwich. The more bread you have, the less $hit you have to eat.
As to the second para - you're confused. 'Tis not me.
The fact is that the airlines back in 89 were going to get up with or without the AFAP input. If it hadn't been the 300 or so who did get jobs, it would have been a different 300 or so. Don't forget that many who applied early and were rejected then became the radicals and red raggers for the 'cause'. If only some of their'comrades' knew, there'd be riots in many an overseas airline.
Every employer wants pulped employees. It's part of the game, and for the past couple of years, 'bash your pilots' seems to have been a regular recreational pursuit amongst the airline managements of the world. Sad but true.
How long do you resist? Who knows. When somebody else comes along with a US$100M+ bit of equipment who says he'd like you to fly it and he'll treat you better, I suppose.
It all comes under the category of 'that's life!'
Life's a $hit sandwich. The more bread you have, the less $hit you have to eat.
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Of course you're proud of being a scab, KX.. .Ir is a part of the defence mechanism for having a lack of spinal fortitude.. .But you still still cannot see the forest - by choice of course.. .And in your cesspit you have to remain. <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
[ 21 February 2002: Message edited by: Tool Time Two ]</p>
[ 21 February 2002: Message edited by: Tool Time Two ]</p>
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TTT,
You'll have to enlighten me - spinal fortitude is a term I'm not familiar with. Intestinal fortitude (guts) is one I know of, and I have sufficient, but spinal fortitude sounds rather silly to me.
Defence mechanism - call whatever you like. I'm still damned proud of my decision and my 8 years of cleaning up.
If you perceive that to be at your cost, then so be it. I win, you lose.
You'll have to enlighten me - spinal fortitude is a term I'm not familiar with. Intestinal fortitude (guts) is one I know of, and I have sufficient, but spinal fortitude sounds rather silly to me.
Defence mechanism - call whatever you like. I'm still damned proud of my decision and my 8 years of cleaning up.
If you perceive that to be at your cost, then so be it. I win, you lose.