More G.A, less Ansett, 89 BS
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More G.A, less Ansett, 89 BS
With the risk of posting about anything other than `89, Ansett or other BS in mind, I would like to gauge some opinions of the people that post on this message board.
Would it be fair to say that all of the above topics are becoming tiresome to the majority of the individuals that frequent this forum? Hardly a day would go by that I dont see the word ANSETT or something about '89 on every second post. I would like to bring to peoples attention that the majority of pilots in this country are engaged in the field of G.A, yet it seems like most of the wingeing, backstabbing and slander is coming from our airine brothers....
Why should something that happened over a decade ago cloud what should be a prime source of information for any pilot looking for that elusive first job, or better still a more lucrative source of employment in what is the best occupation in the world? I direct this question also at our esteemed moderator, who should see that once all of the 89 BS and Ansett shenanigans have been stripped from the rotting carcass that is D+G, all that is left is a half decent post with a snippet of info that could constued as being useful to someone in GA. That is if it has avoided the mandatory padlock.
Maybe a separate forum for airlines, 89's and kiwis would stop the bad name that Australian GA pilots seem to be getting these days.... What do you think?
[ 14 February 2002: Message edited by: Aviation_sl#t ]</p>
Would it be fair to say that all of the above topics are becoming tiresome to the majority of the individuals that frequent this forum? Hardly a day would go by that I dont see the word ANSETT or something about '89 on every second post. I would like to bring to peoples attention that the majority of pilots in this country are engaged in the field of G.A, yet it seems like most of the wingeing, backstabbing and slander is coming from our airine brothers....
Why should something that happened over a decade ago cloud what should be a prime source of information for any pilot looking for that elusive first job, or better still a more lucrative source of employment in what is the best occupation in the world? I direct this question also at our esteemed moderator, who should see that once all of the 89 BS and Ansett shenanigans have been stripped from the rotting carcass that is D+G, all that is left is a half decent post with a snippet of info that could constued as being useful to someone in GA. That is if it has avoided the mandatory padlock.
Maybe a separate forum for airlines, 89's and kiwis would stop the bad name that Australian GA pilots seem to be getting these days.... What do you think?
[ 14 February 2002: Message edited by: Aviation_sl#t ]</p>
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[quote] Maybe a separate forum for airlines, 89's and kiwis would stop the bad name that Australian GA pilots seem to be getting these days.... What do you think? <hr></blockquote>
Well i agree on the separate forum for 89's, but not for airlines in general, even tho there are some annoying ones around, but woomera seems to be cracking down on ALOT of threads latley, so we can say goodbye to them.. .But as for the kiwis, i don't see them making much, if any trouble.. .I'm not a kiwi myself, and would normally not stand up for them, BUT if they are to get their own forum, be it so they can get away from some of us AUSSIES. Some of us out there are pretty nasty, and some come back again and again to the same old subject or ripping into others.. .Now that thats off my chest, i think it's time for another beer! . .
Well i agree on the separate forum for 89's, but not for airlines in general, even tho there are some annoying ones around, but woomera seems to be cracking down on ALOT of threads latley, so we can say goodbye to them.. .But as for the kiwis, i don't see them making much, if any trouble.. .I'm not a kiwi myself, and would normally not stand up for them, BUT if they are to get their own forum, be it so they can get away from some of us AUSSIES. Some of us out there are pretty nasty, and some come back again and again to the same old subject or ripping into others.. .Now that thats off my chest, i think it's time for another beer! . .
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Yeh a few years ago I do remember there was an 89 forum set up in PPRuNe but it was full of bloodey scabs. Who the hell wants to talk to them? I wouldnt degrade myself to even be seen p!ssin on there shoes. So it died a rather quick death.
But you got a point Aviation slut. I dont come into D&G much because its the only damn forum that gets me sh!ttey. As a self-declared world citizen I dont give a rats about, nor am I loyal to, any geographical boundary save that of my @rse. Yeh Id like to see a bit less of 89 and more of GA, or rather more of the non-scab outfits (VB, QF-mainline etc). But beware forgetting the lessons of history. Theres no doubt in my mind another 89 will re-cur in the future unless you guys nip it in the bud before it festers.
But you got a point Aviation slut. I dont come into D&G much because its the only damn forum that gets me sh!ttey. As a self-declared world citizen I dont give a rats about, nor am I loyal to, any geographical boundary save that of my @rse. Yeh Id like to see a bit less of 89 and more of GA, or rather more of the non-scab outfits (VB, QF-mainline etc). But beware forgetting the lessons of history. Theres no doubt in my mind another 89 will re-cur in the future unless you guys nip it in the bud before it festers.
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I have sympathy for position that Ansett crews are in and I understand they have a need to know what's going on, there using this forum to discuss and debate something that will have a very big impact on there future, that's fine. I don't have an interest in this myself so all I ask is the clearly label topics as AN or 89er related posts so those not having an interest can leave them be.
[ 17 February 2002: Message edited by: Throttlemonkey ]</p>
[ 17 February 2002: Message edited by: Throttlemonkey ]</p>
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My two bob's worth, Aviation sl-you-t, for what it's worth, on your suggestion that GA drivers (or at least yourself) are/is 'bored' with all things AN and 89.
In 1983 or thereabouts, the QF pilots decided to withdraw from the single union that looked after the interests of all airline pilots (and many GA pilots) in Oz because they were ‘bored’ with all the time (and their union contributions) that was spent by the union on things that 'didn't concern them', (like GA awards and the domestic airline pilots).
They formed a company union... and the rest, as they say, is history. And if you don't understand the extraordinarily detrimental effect that decision has had on every professional pilot in Australia in the years since, including QF pilots, I'm wasting my time writing this. But having read your comment
[quote] Why should something that happened over a decade ago cloud what should be a prime source of information for any pilot looking for that elusive first job, or better still a more lucrative source of employment in what is the best occupation in the world? <hr></blockquote>
... maybe I should accept that I am indeed wasting my time.
[ 15 February 2002: Message edited by: Wiley ]</p>
In 1983 or thereabouts, the QF pilots decided to withdraw from the single union that looked after the interests of all airline pilots (and many GA pilots) in Oz because they were ‘bored’ with all the time (and their union contributions) that was spent by the union on things that 'didn't concern them', (like GA awards and the domestic airline pilots).
They formed a company union... and the rest, as they say, is history. And if you don't understand the extraordinarily detrimental effect that decision has had on every professional pilot in Australia in the years since, including QF pilots, I'm wasting my time writing this. But having read your comment
[quote] Why should something that happened over a decade ago cloud what should be a prime source of information for any pilot looking for that elusive first job, or better still a more lucrative source of employment in what is the best occupation in the world? <hr></blockquote>
... maybe I should accept that I am indeed wasting my time.
[ 15 February 2002: Message edited by: Wiley ]</p>
Moderator
Wiley,
As the older of the fraternity might opine .. those younger chaps who choose either to ignore or avoid the facts of history ...... lie exposed to the risk of repeating it .....
As the older of the fraternity might opine .. those younger chaps who choose either to ignore or avoid the facts of history ...... lie exposed to the risk of repeating it .....
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Ever thought, A_sl#t, that the reason 1989 and Ansett are CURRENTLY appearing "ad nauseum" (in your opinion), is because part of HISTORY has just NOW been repeated?. .Featuring a "Star-studded cast" from 1989, who ONCE AGAIN have turned Australian aviation totally upside down and inside out, wrt ALL the professional pilots in Dunnunda!
Just because YOU are/were not employed by Ansett mainline or one of the subsidiaries, don`t think that YOU - as a professional pilot - will remain unaffected by the actions of this core group of self-centred, greedy egotists.
Just because YOU are/were not employed by Ansett mainline or one of the subsidiaries, don`t think that YOU - as a professional pilot - will remain unaffected by the actions of this core group of self-centred, greedy egotists.
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Aviation Sl#t, Kaptain M is so right. The Airline I worked for grew out of a big GA operator.Because there was no AFAP to protect the pilots the owner was able to get away with reducing pilot wages,victimising pilots who would not sign an AWA, not pay superannuation[we're still chasing it],not pay allowances for months, promote pilots on the basis of how much they crawled and allowed the company secretary to post a memo threatening to sack pilots if they delayed flights for any reason. The pilots could do nothing about this and anyone who stood up to the company was hounded out or sacked on some trumped up pretext [predestined failures of check flights for example]. If the AFAP was around in its pre 89 form I could not image any of this happening. The Heros of 89 have allowed the vandals to ruin a wonderful industry.Through their selfishness they removed the only protection the pilots had, we are now a disorganised rabble fighting for crumbs flicked of the employers table. Rerunning 89 over and over again may seem boring,but so is a lot of history until it repeats itself.
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Well then,
Maybe I am naive, or just haven’t read between the lines, it seems that nobody has actually bothered to post an easy to read article stating exactly why the terrible mess started! All that we `junior' pilots see is the backstabbing, scaremongering, `ill sue you' BS......
FFS all I want to do is fly aeroplanes! I couldn’t care less if it is a C182 or a 777. I think that the majority of `professional' pilots in this country just want to get on with it without having a group of sad faced old timers muttering about unions or unfair dismissals in times gone by.
GA pilots have always been the poor cousins of the airline pilot.... Do you guys remember where you started? Well if you cant then maybe go and hire a clapped out C172 held together with 100mph tape and reminisce!
It just seems that this forum has once again degenerated into the verbatim regurgitation of all matters ANSETT (which one is bombarded with in the media anyway) and the superfluousness of '89.
As I stated in my first post, the majority of pilots (G.A types) want to come here to get useful information pertaining to aviation, not the legal mess that seems to be polluting the industry at the mo.
Regards A.S
Maybe I am naive, or just haven’t read between the lines, it seems that nobody has actually bothered to post an easy to read article stating exactly why the terrible mess started! All that we `junior' pilots see is the backstabbing, scaremongering, `ill sue you' BS......
FFS all I want to do is fly aeroplanes! I couldn’t care less if it is a C182 or a 777. I think that the majority of `professional' pilots in this country just want to get on with it without having a group of sad faced old timers muttering about unions or unfair dismissals in times gone by.
GA pilots have always been the poor cousins of the airline pilot.... Do you guys remember where you started? Well if you cant then maybe go and hire a clapped out C172 held together with 100mph tape and reminisce!
It just seems that this forum has once again degenerated into the verbatim regurgitation of all matters ANSETT (which one is bombarded with in the media anyway) and the superfluousness of '89.
As I stated in my first post, the majority of pilots (G.A types) want to come here to get useful information pertaining to aviation, not the legal mess that seems to be polluting the industry at the mo.
Regards A.S
Seasonally Adjusted
Aviation Tart...
I too would like to see more posts relating to GA on this forum.
However, I compare the posts with junk mail that appears in my letterbox, if it interests me I read it, if not it goes in the bin...the choice is mine.
I agree with Throttlemonkey, so long as the AN/89 posts are clearly labeled, they can be easily avoided.
Maybe one day I will sit down with a strong cup of coffee and spend a few hours reading one of these posts....at least then I will know when history starts repeating itself, assuming it hasn't started already. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
I too would like to see more posts relating to GA on this forum.
However, I compare the posts with junk mail that appears in my letterbox, if it interests me I read it, if not it goes in the bin...the choice is mine.
I agree with Throttlemonkey, so long as the AN/89 posts are clearly labeled, they can be easily avoided.
Maybe one day I will sit down with a strong cup of coffee and spend a few hours reading one of these posts....at least then I will know when history starts repeating itself, assuming it hasn't started already. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
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Aviation Sl#t As one of those sad faced old timers, I can remember earning more money in . .General Aviation than same vintage, experience level, airline drivers. Also much more exciting flying. Crop spraying, and paid a percentage of. .what the aeroplane grossed, but as airline drivers are paid by the amount of revenue seats behind them, they have well and truly outstripped GA in this day and age. Although, as we have seen developing overseas, and on the home front, many occupations have priced themselves of the market.
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If it doesn't interest you then don't read it. Quite simple really.
If you want more GA posts then why not start one yourself of something you've heard instead of complaining as to how little of them there are.
As for a seperate forum for our cousins in NZ, i was always under the impression that this was a forum for Aussies and Kiwis alike - equally. Our history is interesting to learn about and try and avoid happening again. Yes it gets heated (to put it mildly) sometimes but alot of people, rightly or wrongly (it is not my place to argue)got very badly burnt in '89. Let them have their place in this forum too.
Aviation in Australia and NZ comprises many different areas, lets not get upset when something comes along that we don't want to read.
Twin
If you want more GA posts then why not start one yourself of something you've heard instead of complaining as to how little of them there are.
As for a seperate forum for our cousins in NZ, i was always under the impression that this was a forum for Aussies and Kiwis alike - equally. Our history is interesting to learn about and try and avoid happening again. Yes it gets heated (to put it mildly) sometimes but alot of people, rightly or wrongly (it is not my place to argue)got very badly burnt in '89. Let them have their place in this forum too.
Aviation in Australia and NZ comprises many different areas, lets not get upset when something comes along that we don't want to read.
Twin
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TwinNDB,
You make a good point, but miss the point.
Don't read it indeed, but not actually coming across these often infuriating, peurile posts is difficult.
If they were restricted to a relevant thread by those posting, or better still by the moderator, then that would be great, but at some stage many other threads are hijacked by those tiny minds who are pushing a message that most have forgotten, or don't want/never wanted to know.
If Woomera issued a warning that hijacking threads wouldn't be tolerated, then not reading them would be much easier.
Easy! Create a thread that deals exclusively with 89 BS, and get on with it, and those who choose to post their petty 89 messages on other threads find themselves in the bin for a time, or for ever.
You make a good point, but miss the point.
Don't read it indeed, but not actually coming across these often infuriating, peurile posts is difficult.
If they were restricted to a relevant thread by those posting, or better still by the moderator, then that would be great, but at some stage many other threads are hijacked by those tiny minds who are pushing a message that most have forgotten, or don't want/never wanted to know.
If Woomera issued a warning that hijacking threads wouldn't be tolerated, then not reading them would be much easier.
Easy! Create a thread that deals exclusively with 89 BS, and get on with it, and those who choose to post their petty 89 messages on other threads find themselves in the bin for a time, or for ever.
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G'Day AvTart,. .Well, old '89 is rather boorish to you, and KX.. .Well, Maybe you should read some of the history of '89 as you intimated you should. It is there aplenty, and linking arms with KX et al (e.g., FSU), will not give it to you.. .You see, unless you newcomers in particular, recognise the need for an all in, cohesive Association, and it already exists in the form of the AFAP, then you will, forgive the term, be screwed, into submission by every employer with whom you shall ever have dealings.. .If this so-called AN Mark 53 1/2, or whatever it is this week, ever gets going, just watch old Foxy and Solly do exactly that to the heroes hanging on to hope now. And who shall be the tools doing the screwing? None other than the "golden" heroes, who in '89, believed that their bodily wastes did not exude an offensive aroma. <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
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KX
I do not believe that i missed the point. If we start to have anew forum for every topic that someone didn't want to read we'd have forums for GA, Airlines, Helicopters, NZ, Aus, Cropdusters, Cadets, Ansett, QF, Virgin, ATPL exams, those who want to complain about forums...the list would go on and on. This is a forum for open debate, rumours and so on for everyone associated with aviation in Australia and New Zealand.
If you don't want to - don't read it, but let those to whom it is very much a part of their lives continue to debate.
Perhaps you missed the point! <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Twin
[ 19 February 2002: Message edited by: TwinNDB ]</p>
I do not believe that i missed the point. If we start to have anew forum for every topic that someone didn't want to read we'd have forums for GA, Airlines, Helicopters, NZ, Aus, Cropdusters, Cadets, Ansett, QF, Virgin, ATPL exams, those who want to complain about forums...the list would go on and on. This is a forum for open debate, rumours and so on for everyone associated with aviation in Australia and New Zealand.
If you don't want to - don't read it, but let those to whom it is very much a part of their lives continue to debate.
Perhaps you missed the point! <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Twin
[ 19 February 2002: Message edited by: TwinNDB ]</p>
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Lots to learn in these forums boy. If you're just starting out, it might pay to learn some of the lessons of the past. 89 (and 99 for that matter), and Ansett might help you look at things in a slightly less rosy light. Those subjects have a very valid place in this forum, and a huge affect on your future career <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
