Ansett/Fox/Lew - new owners confirmed!
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Ansett/Fox/Lew - new owners confirmed!
Mon, Nov 26 2001 3:54 PM AEDT
Fox-Lew deal definite for Ansett
Ansett administrators have ruled out the possibility of the airline being sold to anyone other than the Lindsay Fox-Solomon Lew consortium.
Virgin Blue and stevedoring giant Lang Corporation submitted a late proposal rivalling the Fox-Lew bid.
But today administrator Mark Mentha ended speculation Ansett is on the market.
"The Fox-Lew deal, as far as the administrators are concerned, it's full steam ahead and we're going for launch in terms of the airline and the launch date is 31 January," he said.
Eleventh hour bid
Virgin Blue and Lang Corporation put forward a late bid to save the embattled Ansett airlines.
Representatives of both companies emerged from a meeting with Ansett administrators in Melbourne this morning.
Those involved in finalising the 11th-hour deal admitted details were scant.
They were waiting on Ansett's administrators to provide them with more facts and figures to help finalise their proposal.
The Virgin/Lang proposal would reportedly give greater return to creditors and does not rely on Government assistance. It would signal the end of the Ansett name and double the size of Virgin.
Not too late: Anderson
Federal Transport Minister John Anderson has refused to say whether the administrators moved too early on the offer from businessmen Lindsay Fox and Solomon Lew.
But he says the administrator is obliged to consider the latest bid by the Lang Corporation and Virgin Blue airlines.
"They're very different bids," he said.
"I think the thing that we're looking for more than anything else is real competition and real choice in the aviation market."
Unions doubtful
Australia's peak union body says jobs should be the focus of any takeover of Ansett airlines' assets.
ACTU secretary Greg Combet has doubts about the viability of a deal between Virgin and Lang.
Mr Combet says his understanding is that the Virgin-Lang proposal involves only 2,000 employees from Ansett's workforce of 16,000.
"With the Fox-Lew proposal, there are about 4,000 jobs in a mainline airline plus about 2,500 others in regional airline plus another 2,000 in ancillary businesses," he said.
"So if you're looking at 2,000 jobs versus 6,000, 7,000 or 8,000 jobs, there's isn't much choice in it."
Fox-Lew deal definite for Ansett
Ansett administrators have ruled out the possibility of the airline being sold to anyone other than the Lindsay Fox-Solomon Lew consortium.
Virgin Blue and stevedoring giant Lang Corporation submitted a late proposal rivalling the Fox-Lew bid.
But today administrator Mark Mentha ended speculation Ansett is on the market.
"The Fox-Lew deal, as far as the administrators are concerned, it's full steam ahead and we're going for launch in terms of the airline and the launch date is 31 January," he said.
Eleventh hour bid
Virgin Blue and Lang Corporation put forward a late bid to save the embattled Ansett airlines.
Representatives of both companies emerged from a meeting with Ansett administrators in Melbourne this morning.
Those involved in finalising the 11th-hour deal admitted details were scant.
They were waiting on Ansett's administrators to provide them with more facts and figures to help finalise their proposal.
The Virgin/Lang proposal would reportedly give greater return to creditors and does not rely on Government assistance. It would signal the end of the Ansett name and double the size of Virgin.
Not too late: Anderson
Federal Transport Minister John Anderson has refused to say whether the administrators moved too early on the offer from businessmen Lindsay Fox and Solomon Lew.
But he says the administrator is obliged to consider the latest bid by the Lang Corporation and Virgin Blue airlines.
"They're very different bids," he said.
"I think the thing that we're looking for more than anything else is real competition and real choice in the aviation market."
Unions doubtful
Australia's peak union body says jobs should be the focus of any takeover of Ansett airlines' assets.
ACTU secretary Greg Combet has doubts about the viability of a deal between Virgin and Lang.
Mr Combet says his understanding is that the Virgin-Lang proposal involves only 2,000 employees from Ansett's workforce of 16,000.
"With the Fox-Lew proposal, there are about 4,000 jobs in a mainline airline plus about 2,500 others in regional airline plus another 2,000 in ancillary businesses," he said.
"So if you're looking at 2,000 jobs versus 6,000, 7,000 or 8,000 jobs, there's isn't much choice in it."
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Virgin were never going to SAVE Ansett!
They were going to rip apart the assets for their own gain...make themselves sound good by being Australian owned...we will never forget WHERE they came from
Just how many ex ansett staff have they taken on, like they promised? Not many, alot of off the street recruitment.
I always say what goes around, comes around and now that Virgin has failed to get their hands on ansett assets (thank christ) they will have a hell of a time trying to expand. Pure Justice
At least some ex ansett staff will be re-employed under fox-lew now and VB will eventually fall by the way-side
[ 26 November 2001: Message edited by: GWPSOR ]
They were going to rip apart the assets for their own gain...make themselves sound good by being Australian owned...we will never forget WHERE they came from
Just how many ex ansett staff have they taken on, like they promised? Not many, alot of off the street recruitment.
I always say what goes around, comes around and now that Virgin has failed to get their hands on ansett assets (thank christ) they will have a hell of a time trying to expand. Pure Justice
At least some ex ansett staff will be re-employed under fox-lew now and VB will eventually fall by the way-side
[ 26 November 2001: Message edited by: GWPSOR ]
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SYDNEY, Nov 26 Asia Pulse - Australia's aviation industry could benefit from the combined Lang Corp-Virgin Blue bid for Ansett Airlines - but analysts said they doubt it will be approved by creditors.
Analysts expect the failed airline's priority creditors - the Ansett unions - to dismiss Lang Corp's plan, which would return Australia's domestic market to duopoly.
Rothschild Australia Asset Management transport analyst Troy Angus said the Lang Corp plan made "a lot more sense" than the Fox-Lew bid because it would return Australia to a more stable two-airline system.
"Whereas, the Fox-Lew proposal will result in three players - which has proven to be unsustainable," Mr Angus told AAP.
"It'll just mean someone's going to go broke again."
However, the Lang Corp bid has already come under fire from the unions because it would employ far fewer ex-Ansett workers.
Mr Angus said these 1,500 jobs would be far more sustainable than the broader Fox-Lew proposal, which the Federal Government is expected to respond to this week.
He said he was also wary of Fox-Lew's decision to target both business and leisure travellers through Ansett Mark II.
"It's unlikely they'll get corporate customers from Qantas, and it's unlikely they'll be able to compete on a cost basis with Virgin," Mr Angus said.
If Lang Corp's economy-only plan was to go ahead, Qantas would keep its newfound monopoly of the lucrative business travel market.
This scenario would also help Virgin Blue's ambition to float up to half of the airline on the Australian Stock Exchange, Mr Angus said.
"If the Fox-Lew proposal gets up I'd suggest Virgin would find it a lot more difficult to raise capital."
Shares in Qantas were trading nine cents lower at $3.94 in late afternoon trading, on profit-taking and news of the bid.
Lang Corp shares were down 16.4 cents at $10.53.
ASIA PULSE
Analysts expect the failed airline's priority creditors - the Ansett unions - to dismiss Lang Corp's plan, which would return Australia's domestic market to duopoly.
Rothschild Australia Asset Management transport analyst Troy Angus said the Lang Corp plan made "a lot more sense" than the Fox-Lew bid because it would return Australia to a more stable two-airline system.
"Whereas, the Fox-Lew proposal will result in three players - which has proven to be unsustainable," Mr Angus told AAP.
"It'll just mean someone's going to go broke again."
However, the Lang Corp bid has already come under fire from the unions because it would employ far fewer ex-Ansett workers.
Mr Angus said these 1,500 jobs would be far more sustainable than the broader Fox-Lew proposal, which the Federal Government is expected to respond to this week.
He said he was also wary of Fox-Lew's decision to target both business and leisure travellers through Ansett Mark II.
"It's unlikely they'll get corporate customers from Qantas, and it's unlikely they'll be able to compete on a cost basis with Virgin," Mr Angus said.
If Lang Corp's economy-only plan was to go ahead, Qantas would keep its newfound monopoly of the lucrative business travel market.
This scenario would also help Virgin Blue's ambition to float up to half of the airline on the Australian Stock Exchange, Mr Angus said.
"If the Fox-Lew proposal gets up I'd suggest Virgin would find it a lot more difficult to raise capital."
Shares in Qantas were trading nine cents lower at $3.94 in late afternoon trading, on profit-taking and news of the bid.
Lang Corp shares were down 16.4 cents at $10.53.
ASIA PULSE
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Ansett 2Marks ACTU Airlines.
I've got that old feeling (sick in the pit of the stomach) about the way the administrators have handled this one, or have been handled is more likely.
This is a revisit of the bad old 80's type 'flash n dash' deals which will ultimately deliver the market to Qantas and Virgin by default.
Qantas have the grunt and track record and Virgin have the other end, crusades playing piggy in the middle always end in tears.
When all of the smoke and mirrors clear who is going to pay the AN staff entitlements, or are we going to hear another weasel words speech from the administrator like unto we heard today in regard to the Lang/Virgins groups "expression of interest" and "deals done" blah blah "fall back" blah blah.
Code for you what????
Whatever you do don't trade your entitlements for a job.
[ 26 November 2001: Message edited by: gaunty ]
I've got that old feeling (sick in the pit of the stomach) about the way the administrators have handled this one, or have been handled is more likely.
This is a revisit of the bad old 80's type 'flash n dash' deals which will ultimately deliver the market to Qantas and Virgin by default.
Qantas have the grunt and track record and Virgin have the other end, crusades playing piggy in the middle always end in tears.
When all of the smoke and mirrors clear who is going to pay the AN staff entitlements, or are we going to hear another weasel words speech from the administrator like unto we heard today in regard to the Lang/Virgins groups "expression of interest" and "deals done" blah blah "fall back" blah blah.
Code for you what????
Whatever you do don't trade your entitlements for a job.
[ 26 November 2001: Message edited by: gaunty ]
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GWPSOR thank GOD you didnt make it past the interview process at VB,the last thing we need is d****heads like you working for us
Ive never applied for VB Sounds to me like you blame Virgin for Ansetts demise. Didums buddy, sour grapes Id say
[ 26 November 2001: Message edited by: Bugsmasha ]
Ive never applied for VB Sounds to me like you blame Virgin for Ansetts demise. Didums buddy, sour grapes Id say
[ 26 November 2001: Message edited by: Bugsmasha ]
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Gaunty, I'm just going to slip this one in too...
I stated on another thread, a while ago now, that I thought Ansett should have gone into Liquidation over Voluntary Administration.
I hope now, it has become clearer to some, why I made that statement, and stand by it.
At least then, all employees would have received their entitlements.
What has happened, and is continuing to happen, is a joke.
What occured today; almost criminal.
GG
I stated on another thread, a while ago now, that I thought Ansett should have gone into Liquidation over Voluntary Administration.
I hope now, it has become clearer to some, why I made that statement, and stand by it.
At least then, all employees would have received their entitlements.
What has happened, and is continuing to happen, is a joke.
What occured today; almost criminal.
GG
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Just watching John Anderson on "Lateline"
and he was saying speculation about
Fox/Lew wanting prepaid Govt business
was "Un-do-able", does this mean they
expected the govt to pay in advance for
months ahead, if so thats incredible,or
am I missing something.
Wirraway
and he was saying speculation about
Fox/Lew wanting prepaid Govt business
was "Un-do-able", does this mean they
expected the govt to pay in advance for
months ahead, if so thats incredible,or
am I missing something.
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GoGirl & Gaunty,what was crimminal about today?Elaborate,please.
I did enjoy that whining,poncy pommy b$stard Godfrey though-very careful with the press now,doesn`t want to back the wrong horse or risk the eventual SQ-AN-VB tieup.
I did enjoy that whining,poncy pommy b$stard Godfrey though-very careful with the press now,doesn`t want to back the wrong horse or risk the eventual SQ-AN-VB tieup.
For the sake of re-employment of the largest number of ex-AN staff the Lew-Fox deal appears attractive, however, I believe that the best future for the aviation industry in Australia would be for the Virgin-Lang bid to be accepted as this would provide the strongest competitor to Qantas. If Lew-Fox are successful then there will be two weak competitors taking on Qantas without the Revenue, Reserves and Critical Mass that is necessary to survive. At least one would collapse and (without the financial injection from Lang Corp) it could be Virgin has they don't have the funds to expand at the rate necessary to become Australia's "Second Airline". I also have concerns about Fox-Lew running an airline - they might use it as a vehicle for time-critical freight without a genuine desire to provide a quality passenger operation.
Time will tell. Good luck to all ex-AN staff.
Time will tell. Good luck to all ex-AN staff.
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bulldog69
Suffice it to say 'watch this space'.
New Ansett will not survive despite SQ taking an each way bet, Virgin will wind up in Lang Corp or similar without RB or SQ and will get the terminal space it wants without having to treat with AN, SQ will wind up with a mouth full of feathers and an urgent need to sort out their own problems and QF and Virgin and the regional kiddies, will live happily ever after.
The AN staff and creditors will be asking some very searching questions of the administrators about where the funds that were available at the start of the administration have been expended and for what purpose.
The Federal Government have been deliberately put between a rock and a hard place by the precipitous and dubious action of the adminstrators/ACTU and the Lew Fox mob trying to preempt the election of a Labour Govt and force a Govt handout. That blew up in their faces. The Government will not forget it either.
The Howard Govt now have to tread a very delicate line to protect the staff whilst trying to be even handed with the other players. They will be damned if they do or don't, but on present indications do not seem inclined to play the game scenario being forced by the Melbourne push.
There is a huge game of bluff poker being played here and whilst the Govt has all the aces, it will require deft handling to protect the innocent bystanders that are the AN staff and creditors and the perfectly legitimate position of QF and Virgin. Remember Ansett went broke without any help from either.
I seem to recall, in an open letter at the start of this fiasco warning the adminstrators that this business and the sort of people that it attracts is like no other.
They can always go back to their accounts, if it all turns pear shaped.
Beyond the mechanics of liquidation, they do not have the skills, background or experience nor should they be allowed to operate in this arena given the far reaching and dramatic consequences of their meddling. They will not be the ones who will have to clean up the mess.
When all is said and done why does this company deserve any different treatment to any other.
Australians have a deeply rooted sense of fair play, they do not see this happening and will simply vote with their feet and wallets and stay away.
Ansett may try, but should not rely on the 'underdog' routine as there is no flavour of that in the make up.
Election after election after they have acted with 'surgical precision'(Paul Sheehan) in sorting the wheat from the chaff and they will do so again.
The terminals and real estate with the 'thousand' year leases arranged between old mates, are the real prizes, all the rest is flim flam.
They should revert to the Goverment and we go from there.
Suffice it to say 'watch this space'.
New Ansett will not survive despite SQ taking an each way bet, Virgin will wind up in Lang Corp or similar without RB or SQ and will get the terminal space it wants without having to treat with AN, SQ will wind up with a mouth full of feathers and an urgent need to sort out their own problems and QF and Virgin and the regional kiddies, will live happily ever after.
The AN staff and creditors will be asking some very searching questions of the administrators about where the funds that were available at the start of the administration have been expended and for what purpose.
The Federal Government have been deliberately put between a rock and a hard place by the precipitous and dubious action of the adminstrators/ACTU and the Lew Fox mob trying to preempt the election of a Labour Govt and force a Govt handout. That blew up in their faces. The Government will not forget it either.
The Howard Govt now have to tread a very delicate line to protect the staff whilst trying to be even handed with the other players. They will be damned if they do or don't, but on present indications do not seem inclined to play the game scenario being forced by the Melbourne push.
There is a huge game of bluff poker being played here and whilst the Govt has all the aces, it will require deft handling to protect the innocent bystanders that are the AN staff and creditors and the perfectly legitimate position of QF and Virgin. Remember Ansett went broke without any help from either.
I seem to recall, in an open letter at the start of this fiasco warning the adminstrators that this business and the sort of people that it attracts is like no other.
They can always go back to their accounts, if it all turns pear shaped.
Beyond the mechanics of liquidation, they do not have the skills, background or experience nor should they be allowed to operate in this arena given the far reaching and dramatic consequences of their meddling. They will not be the ones who will have to clean up the mess.
When all is said and done why does this company deserve any different treatment to any other.
Australians have a deeply rooted sense of fair play, they do not see this happening and will simply vote with their feet and wallets and stay away.
Ansett may try, but should not rely on the 'underdog' routine as there is no flavour of that in the make up.
Election after election after they have acted with 'surgical precision'(Paul Sheehan) in sorting the wheat from the chaff and they will do so again.
The terminals and real estate with the 'thousand' year leases arranged between old mates, are the real prizes, all the rest is flim flam.
They should revert to the Goverment and we go from there.
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Tues "Fin Review":
The Deputy Prime Minister, Mr John Anderson, said on Monday the Government was considering helping implement a code of conduct to limit Qantas Airways Ltd's competitive behaviour, as part of a package of assistance to bidders for Ansett.
But the Government would not block purchase a large number of seats on a restarted Ansett Airlines, he told reporters.
Both issues are at the heart of a request by the Tesna consortium of Mr Lew and Mr Fox for help from the Government in their bid for Ansett.
Mr Anderson has said he will respond to Lew and Fox early this week on both issues.
The Deputy Prime Minister said the Government was moving forward on the issue of competition, and, in particular, a possible voluntary agreement by Qantas "to minimize the competitive problems".
"You have got two essential strings to the bow," he said. "The first is that Qantas is looking at a voluntary code of conduct. The second is how that is oversighted and made ... workable and locked in place to the satisfaction of all players."
Mr Anderson said the country's competition watchdog, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, would be best placed to oversee that code.
On the issue of government guarantees of business for Ansett, Mr Anderson was less positive.
"That isn't something that we would see as doable," he said, adding there was "limited scope" for government departments to sign travel contracts with a new Ansett, having already signed contracts with Qantas.
"It is up to [Lew and Fox] to then negotiate with the administrators and the administrators to negotiate with the other creditors over the next couple of weeks where they go," Mr Anderson said.
The Deputy Prime Minister, Mr John Anderson, said on Monday the Government was considering helping implement a code of conduct to limit Qantas Airways Ltd's competitive behaviour, as part of a package of assistance to bidders for Ansett.
But the Government would not block purchase a large number of seats on a restarted Ansett Airlines, he told reporters.
Both issues are at the heart of a request by the Tesna consortium of Mr Lew and Mr Fox for help from the Government in their bid for Ansett.
Mr Anderson has said he will respond to Lew and Fox early this week on both issues.
The Deputy Prime Minister said the Government was moving forward on the issue of competition, and, in particular, a possible voluntary agreement by Qantas "to minimize the competitive problems".
"You have got two essential strings to the bow," he said. "The first is that Qantas is looking at a voluntary code of conduct. The second is how that is oversighted and made ... workable and locked in place to the satisfaction of all players."
Mr Anderson said the country's competition watchdog, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, would be best placed to oversee that code.
On the issue of government guarantees of business for Ansett, Mr Anderson was less positive.
"That isn't something that we would see as doable," he said, adding there was "limited scope" for government departments to sign travel contracts with a new Ansett, having already signed contracts with Qantas.
"It is up to [Lew and Fox] to then negotiate with the administrators and the administrators to negotiate with the other creditors over the next couple of weeks where they go," Mr Anderson said.
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Snippet from todays "Melbourne Age"
Lang said it expected the administrators to make an announcement soon allowing the company to view Ansett's books. It also questioned the substance of the Fox-Lew bid, saying the proposal could not support the employment of 4000 people with the number of stated flying aircraft.
"They can't do that with that number of aircraft," a spokesperson said. "If they do they will have to have a lot of people job sharing for a long time."
Lang said it expected the administrators to make an announcement soon allowing the company to view Ansett's books. It also questioned the substance of the Fox-Lew bid, saying the proposal could not support the employment of 4000 people with the number of stated flying aircraft.
"They can't do that with that number of aircraft," a spokesperson said. "If they do they will have to have a lot of people job sharing for a long time."
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See also my thread about the Ansett Administration.
IF the Fox/Lew bid goes ahead, which I doubt it will with the ridiculous demands on the Government, sadly for the employees it will NOT last.....
It has NO hope as Ansett have lost forever all their high yield business travellers.
IF the Fox/Lew bid goes ahead, which I doubt it will with the ridiculous demands on the Government, sadly for the employees it will NOT last.....
It has NO hope as Ansett have lost forever all their high yield business travellers.
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"Virgin-Lang bid to be accepted as this would provide the strongest competitor to Qantas"
A low cost no frills will not take on QF in any way. The business world is eager to see an alternative to QF but offering the same or similar level of service. The big accounts dont give a rats ass about 59 bucks one way to SYD. They would rather pay a premium to have flexibility - something VB does not offer.
A low cost no frills will not take on QF in any way. The business world is eager to see an alternative to QF but offering the same or similar level of service. The big accounts dont give a rats ass about 59 bucks one way to SYD. They would rather pay a premium to have flexibility - something VB does not offer.
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Gaunty,
will Lang back VB without terminals?But,oh,they should be given back to the government unconditionally,reniging on past deals.Terminals are the jewell in the crown.As a creditor,I understand them to be worth 50% less if AN had been liquidated months ago.Look at the fight for them now!They have doubled in value,what do you think they would be worth if SQ jumbos pulled up at the now domestic AN SYD terminals,as proposed?
With generous entitlements owing that warms me.If I had interests in VB I would be feeling sick in the stomach.
Love that flag,a relic of eighties nationalism,but an underdog spirit at that.Should suggest to Fox we paint them on our new a/c,an old conservative like you would be offended though,demanding a union jack.
Lame,
you are getting so political.I know you were wronged by labor but some follow their political parties like football teams.One-eyed.
Business people will return as they are a fickle bunch.I feel they will be humoured by enthuasiastic AN staff more so than QF staff bitter over the coming fight for their conditions.Competition.
will Lang back VB without terminals?But,oh,they should be given back to the government unconditionally,reniging on past deals.Terminals are the jewell in the crown.As a creditor,I understand them to be worth 50% less if AN had been liquidated months ago.Look at the fight for them now!They have doubled in value,what do you think they would be worth if SQ jumbos pulled up at the now domestic AN SYD terminals,as proposed?
With generous entitlements owing that warms me.If I had interests in VB I would be feeling sick in the stomach.
Love that flag,a relic of eighties nationalism,but an underdog spirit at that.Should suggest to Fox we paint them on our new a/c,an old conservative like you would be offended though,demanding a union jack.
Lame,
you are getting so political.I know you were wronged by labor but some follow their political parties like football teams.One-eyed.
Business people will return as they are a fickle bunch.I feel they will be humoured by enthuasiastic AN staff more so than QF staff bitter over the coming fight for their conditions.Competition.
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bulldog, Lame one eyed! Pfffft. That's the pot calling the kettle black if I ever heard it.Your wishfull thinking is clouding your judgements on reality.Your comments on the terminals being the crown jewels is correct.As Im sure you are aware, the 2 new guys at the helm dont give a rats about you or your airline, they are only interested in getting the parts of the company that are going to provide them and thier families with a nice little income for many generations to come. It is you that should be feeling sick in the stomach.
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bulldog69
I too am sincerely concerned that you get your full dues from the wreckage, which is why I am very dubious about the administrators actions so far.
If I may be so bold as to offer some advice, 'keep separate and very clear in your view your two competing concens',
1. getting what you are owed.
2. finding further employment.
They should be and are mutually exclusive issues and you are entitled to both.
Pinning your hopes on both of them being "solved" in one fell swoop is attractive, but will bring more than double the disappointment and despair when they aren't.
I sincerely wish you luck, but take it from someone who has the T shirt etc and accompanying scars, what you are now seeing is very unlikely to be, what you get.
Oh and in regard to the Union Jack, yup, that was still part of the Oz flag last time I looked and if you look to the left of this post, you might see an emblem that sorta describes my feelings in that regard.
Oh and in regard to the terminals, their leases and the manner in which they were negotiated is one of the great heists of this century, legal yes, but anyone who thinks that just because they are legal they are legitimate has just left school.
I too am sincerely concerned that you get your full dues from the wreckage, which is why I am very dubious about the administrators actions so far.
If I may be so bold as to offer some advice, 'keep separate and very clear in your view your two competing concens',
1. getting what you are owed.
2. finding further employment.
They should be and are mutually exclusive issues and you are entitled to both.
Pinning your hopes on both of them being "solved" in one fell swoop is attractive, but will bring more than double the disappointment and despair when they aren't.
I sincerely wish you luck, but take it from someone who has the T shirt etc and accompanying scars, what you are now seeing is very unlikely to be, what you get.
Oh and in regard to the Union Jack, yup, that was still part of the Oz flag last time I looked and if you look to the left of this post, you might see an emblem that sorta describes my feelings in that regard.
Oh and in regard to the terminals, their leases and the manner in which they were negotiated is one of the great heists of this century, legal yes, but anyone who thinks that just because they are legal they are legitimate has just left school.
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Hey Bulldog.You and I and hundreds of others close to the coal face know what,s coming up, most of the other's posting here have no idea what there talking about.
There's about to be a bloody battle of which there will be one survivor.At the end of this battle the loser will walk away in defeat and no tears will be shed by anyone.The winner then will rightfully then
claim second spot.
GO ANSETT
There's about to be a bloody battle of which there will be one survivor.At the end of this battle the loser will walk away in defeat and no tears will be shed by anyone.The winner then will rightfully then
claim second spot.
GO ANSETT