Costs of INST APP
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Costs of INST APP
I know I should know this, but obviously I don't. I was recently told (by a fairly unreliable sozzled source) that an ILS can cost upwards of $1000 in charges. Is that true? If it is, do companies put pressure on not to do them?
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Cost of all is listed in ERSA for each individual aerodrome. Don't have it here so can't look for the steep ones, and i don't pay the cost myself anyway <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> Tamworth is $35 per ILS so i am thinking $1000 is a tad steep unless the main ports charge by the tonne??
The charges in ERSA relate to LANDING fees charged by airport owners/operators.
AsA levy en-route/approach charges. This is their bread and butter, and incidentally why they are pushing the LAMP proposal as they do not wish to provide a service which they cannot charge for as they are a GBE.
Charges are usually calculated on MTOW of the aircraft in question.
Your question as to avoiding doing an ILS is curious, as the decision as to whether one is required is based on prevailling weather conditions.
AsA levy en-route/approach charges. This is their bread and butter, and incidentally why they are pushing the LAMP proposal as they do not wish to provide a service which they cannot charge for as they are a GBE.
Charges are usually calculated on MTOW of the aircraft in question.
Your question as to avoiding doing an ILS is curious, as the decision as to whether one is required is based on prevailling weather conditions.
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I know that at Tamworth if you nominate doing the ILS over the radio, you will be charged for that approach seperate to a landing charge.
There have been numerous accidents where the pilot(s) have elected not to do an ILS in poor conditions with fatal results.
What cost do you balance against that?
There have been numerous accidents where the pilot(s) have elected not to do an ILS in poor conditions with fatal results.
What cost do you balance against that?
So what is the charge for the following approach/radio call?
"All stations Tamworth, ABC 3000' overhead the locator, conducting a 3 degree descent profile over the inner marker for a straight in approach to rwy 20"
(BTW alt & rwy dirI made up as I dont have the plates on hand...)
[ 16 January 2002: Message edited by: compressor stall ]</p>
"All stations Tamworth, ABC 3000' overhead the locator, conducting a 3 degree descent profile over the inner marker for a straight in approach to rwy 20"
(BTW alt & rwy dirI made up as I dont have the plates on hand...)
[ 16 January 2002: Message edited by: compressor stall ]</p>
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I heard the same thing a few months back via one of our companies training Captains.
To avoid paying pilots were requesting to track e.g. via HWS for a visual approach.
Didn't believe it, sounded crazy to me so I checked it out on the ASA web site.
They only charge for a instrument approach if a landing charge is not involved.
In other words if a landing is conducted off a practice instrument approach the landing charge covered the approach.
However if you are training and conduct multiple approaches without landing off each one you will bare the cost which is equivalent to a landing fee. Determined by weight.
If I can find the page I will post it on here later.
Try this
<a href="http://www.airservices.gov.au/services/price/Std.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.airservices.gov.au/services/price/Std.pdf</a>
Section 3.1 above 5700kgs
[ 16 January 2002: Message edited by: Balinda ]
[ 16 January 2002: Message edited by: Balinda ]</p>
To avoid paying pilots were requesting to track e.g. via HWS for a visual approach.
Didn't believe it, sounded crazy to me so I checked it out on the ASA web site.
They only charge for a instrument approach if a landing charge is not involved.
In other words if a landing is conducted off a practice instrument approach the landing charge covered the approach.
However if you are training and conduct multiple approaches without landing off each one you will bare the cost which is equivalent to a landing fee. Determined by weight.
If I can find the page I will post it on here later.
Try this
<a href="http://www.airservices.gov.au/services/price/Std.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.airservices.gov.au/services/price/Std.pdf</a>
Section 3.1 above 5700kgs
[ 16 January 2002: Message edited by: Balinda ]
[ 16 January 2002: Message edited by: Balinda ]</p>
I believe Balinda and don't quote me that the proceeds of the ILS approach fee is paid to the airport operator in this case, the Tamworth City Council. It does say 'practice' ILS's will be charged for, if the weather is poor and ATC nominate the approach does that mean it's free?
When I was at TW 'real' ILS approaches were not charged ie those done due to Wx. Practice ILS approaches were charged.
Coincidently, the VOR/DME approach for that runway has the same alignment, hold etc etc BUT practice VOR approaches weren't charged.
If one were smart one could request a practice VOR/DME but follow the ILS indications...
[ 16 January 2002: Message edited by: Tinstaafl ]</p>
Coincidently, the VOR/DME approach for that runway has the same alignment, hold etc etc BUT practice VOR approaches weren't charged.
If one were smart one could request a practice VOR/DME but follow the ILS indications...
[ 16 January 2002: Message edited by: Tinstaafl ]</p>
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Typical ass backwards Oz insanity.
Any bigish town, not a Capital City, who doesn't build or upgrade a strip suitable for at least bizjet/regional FAR25 ops with stand by lights, PAPI and Minimum VOR/DME approach and operates it for free is nuts.
It's the best way I know how to get people to avoid coming to your burg to buy fuel, spend money, stay the night, eat at the restaurants and generally contemplate maybe transferring the Head Office to a bucolic atmosphere.
The whole aviation user pays routine was and still is nuts. It is, in this country, as stupid as charging for the air we breathe, for looking at the Sydney Harbour Bridge, or singing Waltzing Matilda.
But that doesn't mean that I support the would be Scoutmasters, me no speakum, hearum or try to seeum routine.
Any bigish town, not a Capital City, who doesn't build or upgrade a strip suitable for at least bizjet/regional FAR25 ops with stand by lights, PAPI and Minimum VOR/DME approach and operates it for free is nuts.
It's the best way I know how to get people to avoid coming to your burg to buy fuel, spend money, stay the night, eat at the restaurants and generally contemplate maybe transferring the Head Office to a bucolic atmosphere.
The whole aviation user pays routine was and still is nuts. It is, in this country, as stupid as charging for the air we breathe, for looking at the Sydney Harbour Bridge, or singing Waltzing Matilda.
But that doesn't mean that I support the would be Scoutmasters, me no speakum, hearum or try to seeum routine.
Bit of a wild concept, really - the ILS sits there radiating no matter what, so it's academic whether anyone's flying down it or not.
This whole user pays stuff gets a bit stupid sometimes.
The navaids are there as a safety feature, and should just be provided out of our taxes as one of those things you just have to have.
It's like having to pay a charge for having a traffic light at an intersection, and doing so on the basis of how many times you drive through there.
This whole user pays stuff gets a bit stupid sometimes.
The navaids are there as a safety feature, and should just be provided out of our taxes as one of those things you just have to have.
It's like having to pay a charge for having a traffic light at an intersection, and doing so on the basis of how many times you drive through there.
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Puff,
which document says that??
My reading of asa charges indicates that
the only people who should be concerned about this are the training organisations.
if you conduct a practice approach of any type on return from a flight, say for currency, there is NO extra charge.
You will only be charged extra if you carry out more than one "practice" approach.
As I said if you land after the approach then you are charged for the landing fee only.
In other words there are no supprises as we all know we are harged for landing fees so do not stop carrying out you practice approaches if you have to land anyway, it makes absolutely no difference.
At least thats my interpretation.
[ 16 January 2002: Message edited by: Balinda ]</p>
which document says that??
My reading of asa charges indicates that
the only people who should be concerned about this are the training organisations.
if you conduct a practice approach of any type on return from a flight, say for currency, there is NO extra charge.
You will only be charged extra if you carry out more than one "practice" approach.
As I said if you land after the approach then you are charged for the landing fee only.
In other words there are no supprises as we all know we are harged for landing fees so do not stop carrying out you practice approaches if you have to land anyway, it makes absolutely no difference.
At least thats my interpretation.
[ 16 January 2002: Message edited by: Balinda ]</p>
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When I lived in the UK a few years ago, I decided to hire a bugsmasher with the intention of doing a couple of instrument approaches to keep current at a time when I was not employed as a pilot.
The closest place to do instrument approaches from Cranfield (where I hired the aircraft) was Stansted. I was surprised to discover that I had to call approach control on the phone and give them my a/c rego and credit card number <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> , afterwards I would be billed for the number of approaches I did. I think it was 10 quid per ILS.
<img src="eek.gif" border="0">
The closest place to do instrument approaches from Cranfield (where I hired the aircraft) was Stansted. I was surprised to discover that I had to call approach control on the phone and give them my a/c rego and credit card number <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> , afterwards I would be billed for the number of approaches I did. I think it was 10 quid per ILS.
<img src="eek.gif" border="0">
