Ansett workers warned on jobs
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Ansett workers warned on jobs
Tues "Herald Sun":
Ansett workers warned on jobs
By MARK PHILLIPS, industrial reporter
15jan02
ANSETT workers are being urged not to take up new employment offers until future owner Tesna guarantees their entitlements will be secure.
About 2500 staff will begin receiving formal job offers in the mail today, confirming they have been accepted for employment by Tesna, which will relaunch the airline on February 1.
But a dispute between unions and Tesna about how to secure $240 million of entitlements could scuttle the sale, which must be approved by a creditors' meeting on January 29.
Tesna representatives met ACTU lawyers yesterday to discuss entitlements and superannuation. It is believed former ACTU secretary Bill Kelty was there for Tesna.
Under the agreement with unions, security of entitlements and profit-share arrangements must be finalised by Saturday.
The unions could waive the entitlements conditions, but are unlikely to.
Tesna will employ about 3000 full-time and 1000 part-time staff.
Second-round offers for up to 1400 staff will be made after January 22.
Workers who reject first-round offers are likely to be made redundant.
[ 14 January 2002: Message edited by: Wirraway ]</p>
Ansett workers warned on jobs
By MARK PHILLIPS, industrial reporter
15jan02
ANSETT workers are being urged not to take up new employment offers until future owner Tesna guarantees their entitlements will be secure.
About 2500 staff will begin receiving formal job offers in the mail today, confirming they have been accepted for employment by Tesna, which will relaunch the airline on February 1.
But a dispute between unions and Tesna about how to secure $240 million of entitlements could scuttle the sale, which must be approved by a creditors' meeting on January 29.
Tesna representatives met ACTU lawyers yesterday to discuss entitlements and superannuation. It is believed former ACTU secretary Bill Kelty was there for Tesna.
Under the agreement with unions, security of entitlements and profit-share arrangements must be finalised by Saturday.
The unions could waive the entitlements conditions, but are unlikely to.
Tesna will employ about 3000 full-time and 1000 part-time staff.
Second-round offers for up to 1400 staff will be made after January 22.
Workers who reject first-round offers are likely to be made redundant.
[ 14 January 2002: Message edited by: Wirraway ]</p>
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Wirraway:
Bill Kelty representing Tesna, once again proving that there is no better gamekeeper than a reformed poacher. A bit of a mixed metaphor, I know, but who would have a better idea of the ACTU's approach to the problem and how to counter it?
What bothers me is that the ACTU and Tesna meet on 19Jan to talk again, so we workers, who have to respond to Tesna about our job offer by the 22nd, are left with not nearly enough time to consider options if the talks fail. Assuming ACTU advice is made public on 20th, how are we to get replies to Tesna in the specified time? How long is this brinkmanship to go on, with us caught in the middle?
Regards to all,
TheNightOwl.
Bill Kelty representing Tesna, once again proving that there is no better gamekeeper than a reformed poacher. A bit of a mixed metaphor, I know, but who would have a better idea of the ACTU's approach to the problem and how to counter it?
What bothers me is that the ACTU and Tesna meet on 19Jan to talk again, so we workers, who have to respond to Tesna about our job offer by the 22nd, are left with not nearly enough time to consider options if the talks fail. Assuming ACTU advice is made public on 20th, how are we to get replies to Tesna in the specified time? How long is this brinkmanship to go on, with us caught in the middle?
Regards to all,
TheNightOwl.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
An invidious position to be in Night Owl. Those people offered jobs in the "First Round" must be acutely aware that for every ONE of them, THREE have been left jobless with no real prospect for mant of them of gaining employment any time soon - desperate times, made especially more so because of the apparent uncertainty of the payment of their former entitlements.
Perhaps this IS Howard's strategy, knowing that should the ACTU reject TESNA's offer there would be NO shortage of applicants for all positions.
This now clears the (muddy) water somewhat as to the reason for the selection of the 1989 pilots' dispute scabs - TESNA (and Kelty) know for a fact that they will not hesitate to shaft their peers.
So with the ACTU now bringing the job situation to the knife's edge (for those with a job offer), and the threat to NOT allow the deal to proceed due to withdrawal of labour, PM Howard is able to see that the ACTU would easily LOSE this fight and leave Ansett MK3 totally DEUNIONISED.
All the while Bill Kelty - like Hawke in '89 - looks on and ASSISTS!!
Perhaps Kelty's REAL motives have ALWAYS been questionable, as he was a key player/planner in the DEUNIONISATION of the pilots.
For these people it's a type of "game". For the workers involved, it's your livelihood.
Good Luck people, it's not shaping up very well at the moment.
Perhaps this IS Howard's strategy, knowing that should the ACTU reject TESNA's offer there would be NO shortage of applicants for all positions.
This now clears the (muddy) water somewhat as to the reason for the selection of the 1989 pilots' dispute scabs - TESNA (and Kelty) know for a fact that they will not hesitate to shaft their peers.
So with the ACTU now bringing the job situation to the knife's edge (for those with a job offer), and the threat to NOT allow the deal to proceed due to withdrawal of labour, PM Howard is able to see that the ACTU would easily LOSE this fight and leave Ansett MK3 totally DEUNIONISED.
All the while Bill Kelty - like Hawke in '89 - looks on and ASSISTS!!
Perhaps Kelty's REAL motives have ALWAYS been questionable, as he was a key player/planner in the DEUNIONISATION of the pilots.
For these people it's a type of "game". For the workers involved, it's your livelihood.
Good Luck people, it's not shaping up very well at the moment.
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My point exactly, Kaptin, how are any of them to be trusted? Every time I see Kelty's face, the term "smiling assassin" springs to mind. At the same time, I am not convinced that the ACTU has members' interests at heart, more that they are intent on pursuing their own ideological agenda. Not for a moment do I trust my new potential employer to look after my interests, experience with AN's and ANZ's management techniques were ample indicators of the responsibility that collective managements feel toward employees. Not one of them can be trusted, management or union, so I guess we have to look after our own interest, which is exactly what I intend to do. If that means resigning from my union, so be it. It makes me incredibly sad to have come to this attitude, but experience is a hard taskmaster and I have a family to look after. If this sounds selfish, I'd be happy to explain my attitude in detail, by e-mail, to anyone who is interested. I've already spoken to EWL, and taken his advice, but I am so disillusioned with AN staff at present it just isn't funny any more.
Enough ranting, back to work.
Regards,
TheNightOwl.
Enough ranting, back to work.
Regards,
TheNightOwl.
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Really????? I thought the sale of AN hung on the decision of the creditors. Didin't realise that they were already sold. Geez ya off the prune for a few hours and look what happens....
Onya <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
Onya <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
Evertonian
Night Owl...and any other interested AN staff...Union meeting for staff at the Astrojet centre from midday tomorrow, Friday the 18th.
See you there...(I'm not sure if it's for all Unions as the FAAA had theirs on Wednesday, but I know the ASU are there...turn up if you widh, even if not an ASU member.)
I'll see you there perhaps?
See you there...(I'm not sure if it's for all Unions as the FAAA had theirs on Wednesday, but I know the ASU are there...turn up if you widh, even if not an ASU member.)
I'll see you there perhaps?
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Kap:- I, and MOST of my colleagues, are acutely aware of the out-of-work 75%, why do you think we have been suffering "the guilts" since Sep14? There is no way we will ever forget how fortunate we are to be still in employment.
Report Further:- I don't know where your info camr from re extended deadline for acceptance, can you advise as my letter of offer is unequivocal that Jan22 is the final date.
Buster:- I'm aware of the meeting, thanks, I'm on duty at the Sim Centre but will attend if possible.
Maintain the rage!!!
Regards,
TheNightOwl.
Report Further:- I don't know where your info camr from re extended deadline for acceptance, can you advise as my letter of offer is unequivocal that Jan22 is the final date.
Buster:- I'm aware of the meeting, thanks, I'm on duty at the Sim Centre but will attend if possible.
Maintain the rage!!!
Regards,
TheNightOwl.
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Night Owl
greetings.SIM available for personal use with TESNA?
With your job/promotion riding on your sim scores,regular practice prudent.Don`t want to fall into the next bottom 5%(sic 20%).
greetings.SIM available for personal use with TESNA?
With your job/promotion riding on your sim scores,regular practice prudent.Don`t want to fall into the next bottom 5%(sic 20%).
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onya , you are 100% correct. Now let's wait and see if two gentlemen from Andersons and their union buddies can sell to the creditors one of the greatest stings of the century!
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What an interesting little game we have here.
The little cherub, as his mate had done in past years, now launches on the side of the - let's say - employer.
He played not an insignificant role in 1989, olive branches, as he read from a prepared speech, rectally located notwithstanding.
Now here he pops up at the table of LinSol. Sounds like an oil, doesn't it.
It seems he likes feeding at the trough, as he did that often at Kirrabili, along with his now winged mate Abeles. (It is rumoured Abeles has offered the pilots of Angel Air a non-negotiable contract.)
The little cherub is a mate, and that's what will count. He is still basking in the light of his 1989 role, which he regards as a triumph. He managed to get pilots to scab, and therefore control them in a way he was unable to do through the AFAP.
However, let us be realistic here.
Ansett is dead.
If anything comes out of the ashes, it sure isn't Ansett, and if Reg could sit up and talk he'd second the motion. <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
The little cherub, as his mate had done in past years, now launches on the side of the - let's say - employer.
He played not an insignificant role in 1989, olive branches, as he read from a prepared speech, rectally located notwithstanding.
Now here he pops up at the table of LinSol. Sounds like an oil, doesn't it.
It seems he likes feeding at the trough, as he did that often at Kirrabili, along with his now winged mate Abeles. (It is rumoured Abeles has offered the pilots of Angel Air a non-negotiable contract.)
The little cherub is a mate, and that's what will count. He is still basking in the light of his 1989 role, which he regards as a triumph. He managed to get pilots to scab, and therefore control them in a way he was unable to do through the AFAP.
However, let us be realistic here.
Ansett is dead.
If anything comes out of the ashes, it sure isn't Ansett, and if Reg could sit up and talk he'd second the motion. <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Reportfurther,"...acknowledged the importance of the entitlements", means Sweet Fanny Adams. EVERYONE acknowledges the IMPORTANCE of the entitlements - it's the GUARANTEE of the money that is important.
Sorry to disagree with your description of Ansett as being "ashes", Tool Time.
The further this whole thing goes, the more it appears that Ansett is now a rotting, flyblown corpse with maggotts emerging in ever increasing numbers!
Sorry to disagree with your description of Ansett as being "ashes", Tool Time.
The further this whole thing goes, the more it appears that Ansett is now a rotting, flyblown corpse with maggotts emerging in ever increasing numbers!
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Talking about flies and maggotts, I wouldn't mind betting the little Silver Budgie is buzzing somewhere around the deal as well....to make sure he gets his slice of the offal!
The Ansett workers are just the fodder!!
The Ansett workers are just the fodder!!
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With the fear of being padlocked,where do the unions fit in with VB?Why the compromise?
Did VB pilots negotiate their contract with union assistance?If they didn`t,should they have?
Did VB pilots negotiate their contract with union assistance?If they didn`t,should they have?
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Duck Muck
No fear of the padlock for legitimate questions hopefully you will get a rational answer.
The other thread was locked not because of anything you said, but because it had gone off course.
No fear of the padlock for legitimate questions hopefully you will get a rational answer.
The other thread was locked not because of anything you said, but because it had gone off course.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
I understand that the Virgin pilots' contract was negotiated by the AFAP (the Federation) - the organisation that has historically represented ALL Australian pilots in General Aviation and ALL 3 domestic Australian airlines until the 1989 dispute.
There is a wealth of experience and knowledge within the AFAP for all matters (contractual, legal, etc) concerning Australian pilots, and devoid of any self-interest as evidenced by the Ansett "in-house" APA - which in itself was something of a conundrum, as it was established by, and had as its principal office bearers, scabs (mean low fellow, person who refuses to join strike or trade union, or acts against trade union members, or breaks rules of his trade or group. Source: The Concise Oxford Dictionary of current English) from the dispute. Their self-serving actions in the "grab for jobs" over the past month or so is proof that pilots need a strong, national, independent representative body.
[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: Kaptin M ]</p>
There is a wealth of experience and knowledge within the AFAP for all matters (contractual, legal, etc) concerning Australian pilots, and devoid of any self-interest as evidenced by the Ansett "in-house" APA - which in itself was something of a conundrum, as it was established by, and had as its principal office bearers, scabs (mean low fellow, person who refuses to join strike or trade union, or acts against trade union members, or breaks rules of his trade or group. Source: The Concise Oxford Dictionary of current English) from the dispute. Their self-serving actions in the "grab for jobs" over the past month or so is proof that pilots need a strong, national, independent representative body.
[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: Kaptin M ]</p>
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Thanks Kapt M
agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments regarding the need for effective pilot representation.
Regarding APA,there is much dissatisfaction amongst the members as to the lack of transparency of its` recent actions,or action by one person.
APA is a lame duck,one aircraft type now,no longer the company ignored bickerings about the pilots dispute reference seniority(laughable).
agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments regarding the need for effective pilot representation.
Regarding APA,there is much dissatisfaction amongst the members as to the lack of transparency of its` recent actions,or action by one person.
APA is a lame duck,one aircraft type now,no longer the company ignored bickerings about the pilots dispute reference seniority(laughable).
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KAPTIN M, thanks for the AFAP advertisment. The VB guys who came home to start the airline have destroyed pilot wages in this country for ever.(having already made a nice pile OS while taking someone elses job) My sympathies are with all the new hires who have been forced to shell out $25 grand for a 737 endorsement. As for your mates they should have done us all a favour and stayed out of Australian aviation for good.
[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: Woomera ]</p>
[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: Woomera ]</p>
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Alpha41, by your definition, anyone with a job is taking someone else's job. Do you actually believe what you're saying?
Who "forced" anyone to pay $25,000 for an endorsement? How much did you pay for your training?
[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: knackered ]
[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: knackered ]</p>
Who "forced" anyone to pay $25,000 for an endorsement? How much did you pay for your training?
[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: knackered ]
[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: knackered ]</p>