What do you feel about Ansett?
What are the chances of history repeating itself? Remember back in the fifties when the minnow Ansett swallowed the whale ANA? What therefore are the chances of Virgin Blue swallowing Ansett? Clearly the Aust government cannot justify bailing out what is unfortunately a foreign company when Compass was allowed to fold twice. Leaving aside all the emotional considerations, there is a bottom line logistical consideration in that QF and VB cannot provide sufficient capacity if AN folds. If AN folds they will have to be replaced and this no doubt is the dilemma facing the Aust govt. Having said all that, my heart bleeds for everyone in the AN family, despite my 30 years with the opposition.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Qld Aust
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For AN to survive (and I sure hope it does) It must first get bach to the basics and stop its crazy policy of every new employee must have a degree to have a job. The company is overloaded with JAFA's who know nothing about aviation but have a swag of useless degrees. When AN was a real airline (Reg's days) it consisted of dedicated employees that knew all about aircraft and airlines and were career employees who wanted to be with the airline for their entire working life. Then came the academic's who decided the best thing to inprove the company (that was already doing fine) was to "DE ANSETTISE" it and they completely turned the great culture the airline had into the mess it is today. It has so many managers there are even managers who manage the managers but when it comes to staff at the coalface there are few to be found as they have all been made redundant. Get rid of the multitude of highly paid people in fishbowls who no one seems to have any idea what they do and save yourself something like $70,000 per head. This alone will save millions, then get some workers back to service the people who provide the wages. It will be a long road back but the current path they are taking leads to a dead end and no amount of money injected with the current policies will bring it back to a profit making business. One of the papers said it all in one line "It has management of donkeys leading a staff of lions" If it had not been for the staff AN would have folded years ago. Get off your leather padded chairs boys and do what you are paid to do "MANAGE" Please for the sake of the staff, They deserve better than this mess.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Asia
Posts: 381
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1. Ansett has expired, the only question remaining is whether AirNZ has also expired given the letter of comfort over Ansett debt.
2. The seeds for this Greek Opera were sown years ago and is not unlike most aviation disasters; a combination of a number of significant mistakes, each in isolation non-life threatening, but in combination,nearly always fatal.
Following the deregulation of the Australian aviation industry Ansett continued to be run as a personal fiefdom of the let Sir Peter Abeles of TNT. News Corp took a back seat. Both lived off the cash flow and re-invested nought back into the business. The balance sheet went to hell in a hand basket. In the meantime Qantas and Australian Airlines came
together and put together a decent balance sheet and built the synergy between domestic
and international that today includes the alliance with BA.
In the meantime, Ansett struggled to append a few international routes to its shrinking
domestic business and ever thinning margins.
TNT exited via AirNZ while NewsCorp remained locked in via the foreign ownership regs.
In the late 90's the most sensible option was for NewsCorp to exit by selling their 50% to
SQ. The balance sheet maintenance and investment required to rapidly restore Ansett was beyond the means of AirNZ even as far back as 1997/98.
This position was strongly pushed by Ansett management as the only realistic option that
would guarantee Ansett a future.
Unfortunately pride always comes before a fall.
Over the Tasman, Air NZ in the form of Sir Selwyn Cushing and major shareholders Brierley
Investments were in no mood to write down the value of their 50% of Ansett.This would
surely be required should the other 50% go to SQ at a substantial discount to the cost of
their already held 50% which had been bought from TNT some years earlier.
AirNZ then exercised it's pre-emptive rights over the NewsCorp 50% of Ansett. This was a
classic mistake of biting off more than they could chew to maintain a seat at the big (small) table in the Asia-Pacific aviation market.Pride more than anything else would not let Sir Selwyn and his board do anything else.
They thought they could have their kayak and heat it too.
Even in ideal weather this was never going to work.
Then a number of other circuit breakers all started popping at the same time.
With the addition of Impulse and Virgin Blue
to the domestic main east coast trunk routes and the rapid increase in the price of avgas ,
Ansett's balance sheet was further shredded in a matter of 12 months.
Ansett had no natural hedge against the substantial fall in the AUD since 1997, blowing out lease costs and fuel prices even more.
Then the two grounding episodes.. and it was all over.
Air NZ has it's own set of very serious problems which precluded them from fixing Ansett two years ago and most certainly at this point in time. Their major shareholder Brierley Investments is cash strapped and has no intention of increasing exposure (this shareholding is more debt dressed up as equity). SQ now in for 25% is looking down the barrel of a write-off in AirNZ and quite sensibly is not interested in buying into the mud-slinging and duck shoving that will now intensify between the unholy set of "stakeholders" that includes the NZ Government, the Australian Government and the major shareholders...and of course our friends the banks.
As surely as pride contributed significantly to the current situation you can be equally sure it will preclude a workable solution.
The dye is cast.The finger pointing has commenced in earnest.
The vultures will have a good dinner. Everyone else will be 4Q'd.
3. Global Rewards member.
2. The seeds for this Greek Opera were sown years ago and is not unlike most aviation disasters; a combination of a number of significant mistakes, each in isolation non-life threatening, but in combination,nearly always fatal.
Following the deregulation of the Australian aviation industry Ansett continued to be run as a personal fiefdom of the let Sir Peter Abeles of TNT. News Corp took a back seat. Both lived off the cash flow and re-invested nought back into the business. The balance sheet went to hell in a hand basket. In the meantime Qantas and Australian Airlines came
together and put together a decent balance sheet and built the synergy between domestic
and international that today includes the alliance with BA.
In the meantime, Ansett struggled to append a few international routes to its shrinking
domestic business and ever thinning margins.
TNT exited via AirNZ while NewsCorp remained locked in via the foreign ownership regs.
In the late 90's the most sensible option was for NewsCorp to exit by selling their 50% to
SQ. The balance sheet maintenance and investment required to rapidly restore Ansett was beyond the means of AirNZ even as far back as 1997/98.
This position was strongly pushed by Ansett management as the only realistic option that
would guarantee Ansett a future.
Unfortunately pride always comes before a fall.
Over the Tasman, Air NZ in the form of Sir Selwyn Cushing and major shareholders Brierley
Investments were in no mood to write down the value of their 50% of Ansett.This would
surely be required should the other 50% go to SQ at a substantial discount to the cost of
their already held 50% which had been bought from TNT some years earlier.
AirNZ then exercised it's pre-emptive rights over the NewsCorp 50% of Ansett. This was a
classic mistake of biting off more than they could chew to maintain a seat at the big (small) table in the Asia-Pacific aviation market.Pride more than anything else would not let Sir Selwyn and his board do anything else.
They thought they could have their kayak and heat it too.
Even in ideal weather this was never going to work.
Then a number of other circuit breakers all started popping at the same time.
With the addition of Impulse and Virgin Blue
to the domestic main east coast trunk routes and the rapid increase in the price of avgas ,
Ansett's balance sheet was further shredded in a matter of 12 months.
Ansett had no natural hedge against the substantial fall in the AUD since 1997, blowing out lease costs and fuel prices even more.
Then the two grounding episodes.. and it was all over.
Air NZ has it's own set of very serious problems which precluded them from fixing Ansett two years ago and most certainly at this point in time. Their major shareholder Brierley Investments is cash strapped and has no intention of increasing exposure (this shareholding is more debt dressed up as equity). SQ now in for 25% is looking down the barrel of a write-off in AirNZ and quite sensibly is not interested in buying into the mud-slinging and duck shoving that will now intensify between the unholy set of "stakeholders" that includes the NZ Government, the Australian Government and the major shareholders...and of course our friends the banks.
As surely as pride contributed significantly to the current situation you can be equally sure it will preclude a workable solution.
The dye is cast.The finger pointing has commenced in earnest.
The vultures will have a good dinner. Everyone else will be 4Q'd.
3. Global Rewards member.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: ex Hong Kong
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1. I hope AN goes broke and disappears. Put it to the sword.
2. Those of us who got hounded out of Australia in 89 will never have to look at the disgraceful entity again. The whole Company was a scab's cabal since 89. The scabs deserve unemployment. The other staff will find alternative employment - probably with a better Company and wonder why they ever felt good about working for AN. Economic rationalism determines the number of jobs in aviation not the number and 'icon value' of the incumbent carriers.
3. I used to work for AN when it was an airline to proud to work for.
2. Those of us who got hounded out of Australia in 89 will never have to look at the disgraceful entity again. The whole Company was a scab's cabal since 89. The scabs deserve unemployment. The other staff will find alternative employment - probably with a better Company and wonder why they ever felt good about working for AN. Economic rationalism determines the number of jobs in aviation not the number and 'icon value' of the incumbent carriers.
3. I used to work for AN when it was an airline to proud to work for.
Guest
Posts: n/a
farrari,
Looks like you may have been right.......
Latest press release from Air NZ follows...
Air NZ and Qantas Start Discussions on Ansett (issued at 1950)
Mon 10 September 2001
The Board of Air New Zealand Limited has offered to sell its Ansett subsidiary businesses to Qantas Airways Limited and has entered into discussions with Qantas, the Acting Chairman of Air New Zealand, Dr Jim Farmer, announced today.
"Ansett is continuing normal operations, and Qantas and Air New Zealand will continue discussions over the next few days on the terms of any acquisition of Ansett by Qantas.
"Any transaction would be subject to due diligence and approvals of the Australian and New Zealand Governments and regulatory approvals, including that of the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission.
"The Board of Air New Zealand expects to be able to make an announcement on the progress of the discussions with Qantas on, or before, Thursday 13 September when the company is due to present its annual results.
"Meantime, Air New Zealand, its major shareholders, Brierley Investment Limited and Singapore Airlines Limited, and the New Zealand Government are continuing to negotiate in good faith to finalise arrangements to provide on-going financial support for the operation of Air New Zealand international and domestic airlines operations," Dr Farmer said.
Best regards,
"lame"
Looks like you may have been right.......
Latest press release from Air NZ follows...
Air NZ and Qantas Start Discussions on Ansett (issued at 1950)
Mon 10 September 2001
The Board of Air New Zealand Limited has offered to sell its Ansett subsidiary businesses to Qantas Airways Limited and has entered into discussions with Qantas, the Acting Chairman of Air New Zealand, Dr Jim Farmer, announced today.
"Ansett is continuing normal operations, and Qantas and Air New Zealand will continue discussions over the next few days on the terms of any acquisition of Ansett by Qantas.
"Any transaction would be subject to due diligence and approvals of the Australian and New Zealand Governments and regulatory approvals, including that of the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission.
"The Board of Air New Zealand expects to be able to make an announcement on the progress of the discussions with Qantas on, or before, Thursday 13 September when the company is due to present its annual results.
"Meantime, Air New Zealand, its major shareholders, Brierley Investment Limited and Singapore Airlines Limited, and the New Zealand Government are continuing to negotiate in good faith to finalise arrangements to provide on-going financial support for the operation of Air New Zealand international and domestic airlines operations," Dr Farmer said.
Best regards,
"lame"
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: N.S.W.
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1. Ambivalent about mainline, even though I have just had my AN stage 1 testing and was actually treated like a human (Yes, I missed out on being a Qantas Automaton and yes, I am bitter).
I would be greatly saddened to see KDs, ZL and the Duck disappear or become part of the QF group. An Aeroconnex-type arrangement would be, I suppose, the best solution of a bad lot.
3. As a wannabe that has just watched half his potential career path get washed into the ocean, I would like to see at least a career goat-track remain. And I am sooooo sick of GA.
Cheers.
I would be greatly saddened to see KDs, ZL and the Duck disappear or become part of the QF group. An Aeroconnex-type arrangement would be, I suppose, the best solution of a bad lot.
3. As a wannabe that has just watched half his potential career path get washed into the ocean, I would like to see at least a career goat-track remain. And I am sooooo sick of GA.
Cheers.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sydney
Posts: 731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The ACCC is sure to get involved in that one. Hard to see what QF would get out of buying AN apart from demoralised staff, clapped out aeroplanes and a mountain of debt.
Even if the ACCC did allow it, it would have to be a great deal form QF's perspective to make it worthwhile.
Even if the ACCC did allow it, it would have to be a great deal form QF's perspective to make it worthwhile.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: NSW
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It may provide the beginnings of their new low cost/budget domestic arm?
Aero Pelican (QANTAS LINK) worth keeping, Hazo's and KD's QF already have what they do.
Flight west staff have had a bad run that will unfortunately probably get worse very soon.
Air North well they don't have much to do with it, privately owned, they will keep flying to Bathurst island and back.
[ 10 September 2001: Message edited by: airbrake42 ]
Aero Pelican (QANTAS LINK) worth keeping, Hazo's and KD's QF already have what they do.
Flight west staff have had a bad run that will unfortunately probably get worse very soon.
Air North well they don't have much to do with it, privately owned, they will keep flying to Bathurst island and back.
[ 10 September 2001: Message edited by: airbrake42 ]
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: australia
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1. Call in the liquidator.
2. Pay out ALL the staff.
3. Rehire only enough staff to get the basic airline going. Salary would be dramatically cut with individual contract hire.
4. As revenue improves hire more staff & increase services.
5. In other words start the airline again from square one.
2. Pay out ALL the staff.
3. Rehire only enough staff to get the basic airline going. Salary would be dramatically cut with individual contract hire.
4. As revenue improves hire more staff & increase services.
5. In other words start the airline again from square one.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: MiddleEast
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Would be a shame to see such an Aussie icon gone but I think the hole they are in might be just to deep.
Just heard that Qantas & Virgin are in discussions with regards to each taking parts of the operation. It was stated that this was the LAST CHANCE for the Ansett's survival. The Australian Government recommended that ANZ take the offer/offers????
Have a nice day
Just heard that Qantas & Virgin are in discussions with regards to each taking parts of the operation. It was stated that this was the LAST CHANCE for the Ansett's survival. The Australian Government recommended that ANZ take the offer/offers????
Have a nice day
Evertonian
Surely if QF/DJ took on part or all of AN, then they'd have to take it "as is". To break all the awards, they'd have to shut it down right??? 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: perth
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would be more concerned about Ansett going into administration, the secured creditors (generally the banks/leasing companies) get 1st bite of the cherry if the administrator has to wind the company up.
In the Ansett case we now see it is probable the employees will come sticky seconds and there won't be any cash left to pay them out.
This will be worse than One Tel or HIH, lots more highly paid people involved.
In any event if the company goes into administration this could be a long drawn out affaire. Inevitably it will be the employees who suffer the most.
In the Ansett case we now see it is probable the employees will come sticky seconds and there won't be any cash left to pay them out.
This will be worse than One Tel or HIH, lots more highly paid people involved.
In any event if the company goes into administration this could be a long drawn out affaire. Inevitably it will be the employees who suffer the most.
Join Date: Jun 1997
Location: auckland, new zealand
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As I understand the history of it, Abels (in collusion with the Silver Bodgie and other mates,) then Rupert, then Selwyn ******ed up a fairly reasonable airline.
It does appear though that the non-operational tail of Ansett makes the Indian civil service look like a keen,lean, mean ass-kicking machine.There also seems to be a fair bit of gold-plating in aircrew conditions.(More power to you all, and I wish you well).
There has been, though, a good bit of feeling out there in other parts of the Group that we should be rid of the financial black hole ASAP.Now, because of Helen and her tree-hugging ideologues, there is no alternative.Sad.
It does appear though that the non-operational tail of Ansett makes the Indian civil service look like a keen,lean, mean ass-kicking machine.There also seems to be a fair bit of gold-plating in aircrew conditions.(More power to you all, and I wish you well).
There has been, though, a good bit of feeling out there in other parts of the Group that we should be rid of the financial black hole ASAP.Now, because of Helen and her tree-hugging ideologues, there is no alternative.Sad.
Join Date: Jun 1997
Location: auckland, new zealand
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As I understand the history of it, Abels (in collusion with the Silver Bodgie and other mates,) then Rupert, then Selwyn ******ed up a fairly reasonable airline.
It does appear though that the non-operational tail of Ansett makes the Indian civil service look like a keen,lean, mean ass-kicking machine.There also seems to be a fair bit of gold-plating in aircrew conditions.(More power to you all, and I wish you well).
There has been, though, a good bit of feeling out there in other parts of the Group that we should be rid of the financial black hole ASAP.Now, because of Helen and her tree-hugging ideologues, there is no alternative.Sad.
It does appear though that the non-operational tail of Ansett makes the Indian civil service look like a keen,lean, mean ass-kicking machine.There also seems to be a fair bit of gold-plating in aircrew conditions.(More power to you all, and I wish you well).
There has been, though, a good bit of feeling out there in other parts of the Group that we should be rid of the financial black hole ASAP.Now, because of Helen and her tree-hugging ideologues, there is no alternative.Sad.
