AN-ANZ-VB thread rebooted
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One person has, in the media, nailed the points some of us have been trying for many a year to get through.
None other than RM's son - Bob.
As he pointed out, the takeover (by Abeles), the mismanagement, the dispute, and the pitiful way the company has been divided, has resulted in the situation of today.
This is commercial vandalism, and it is not for the taxpayer of this country to bail it out.
As for SQ, it being owned 65%(?) by the Singapore Government, whihc has no love for Australia or Australians, taking AN over, then that would be a dark day for this nation.
This is tragic, but only because of the points raised by Bob Ansett, and reiterated in these fora for some time.
None other than RM's son - Bob.
As he pointed out, the takeover (by Abeles), the mismanagement, the dispute, and the pitiful way the company has been divided, has resulted in the situation of today.
This is commercial vandalism, and it is not for the taxpayer of this country to bail it out.
As for SQ, it being owned 65%(?) by the Singapore Government, whihc has no love for Australia or Australians, taking AN over, then that would be a dark day for this nation.
This is tragic, but only because of the points raised by Bob Ansett, and reiterated in these fora for some time.
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Air NZ board scheduled to meet at 0400 GMT
AUCKLAND, Sept 10 (Reuters) - The Air New Zealand board was scheduled to meet at 4 p.m. (0400 GMT), a company spokeswoman said on Monday.
The airline has been involved in negotiations with major shareholders and the Australian and New Zealand governments about a refinancing package.
Prime Minister Helen Clark's cabinet held its regular meeting on Monday, with Clark scheduled to hold a media conference at 3:45 p.m. (0345 GMT).
AUCKLAND, Sept 10 (Reuters) - The Air New Zealand board was scheduled to meet at 4 p.m. (0400 GMT), a company spokeswoman said on Monday.
The airline has been involved in negotiations with major shareholders and the Australian and New Zealand governments about a refinancing package.
Prime Minister Helen Clark's cabinet held its regular meeting on Monday, with Clark scheduled to hold a media conference at 3:45 p.m. (0345 GMT).
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Monday September 10, 12:19 PM (Singapore)
Air NZ talks to continue, maybe into Wed - NZ govt
WELLINGTON, Sept 10 (Reuters) - Talks on a refinancing plan for national carrier Air New Zealand will continue, maybe until Wednesday, Prime Minister Helen Clark said on Monday.
A rescue deal for the airline -- which is badly affected by losses at its Australian unit Ansett -- is under negotiation by the Air NZ board, major shareholders of the airline and the New Zealand and Australian governments.
The refinancing plan has not been finalised, Clark told reporters after her government's regular weekly cabinet meeting.
"We're continuing to work today, probably tomorrow and possibly into Wednesday," she said.
The Air NZ board was scheduled to begin a board meeting at 4 p.m. (0400 GMT) -- the latest in a string of meetings to discuss the situation, as Ansett loses A$1.3 million a day.
The refinancing plan involves Singapore Airlines raising its stake to as much as 49 percent and both major shareholders committing to a further cash investment.
Air NZ board and BIL board member, Sir Selwyn Cushing, told reporters outside the Air NZ headquarters in Auckland that BIL stood behind the airline's rights issue.
"BIL is once again sticking to its responsibilities and obligations," he said.
Asked what the board would consider and the options available Cushing said: "For the group there are a number of initiatives that we will be looking at assiduously, as usual."
Air NZ shares bounced off fresh all-time lows on Monday, with investors reassured by signs that the airline may be near to completing a refinancing plan.
Air NZ's unrestricted B shares last traded up seven cents at NZ$0.88 while the airline's New Zealand resident-only A shares last traded up two cents at NZ$0.72. They had earlier traded at NZ$0.71 and NZ$0.60 respectively.
Air NZ talks to continue, maybe into Wed - NZ govt
WELLINGTON, Sept 10 (Reuters) - Talks on a refinancing plan for national carrier Air New Zealand will continue, maybe until Wednesday, Prime Minister Helen Clark said on Monday.
A rescue deal for the airline -- which is badly affected by losses at its Australian unit Ansett -- is under negotiation by the Air NZ board, major shareholders of the airline and the New Zealand and Australian governments.
The refinancing plan has not been finalised, Clark told reporters after her government's regular weekly cabinet meeting.
"We're continuing to work today, probably tomorrow and possibly into Wednesday," she said.
The Air NZ board was scheduled to begin a board meeting at 4 p.m. (0400 GMT) -- the latest in a string of meetings to discuss the situation, as Ansett loses A$1.3 million a day.
The refinancing plan involves Singapore Airlines raising its stake to as much as 49 percent and both major shareholders committing to a further cash investment.
Air NZ board and BIL board member, Sir Selwyn Cushing, told reporters outside the Air NZ headquarters in Auckland that BIL stood behind the airline's rights issue.
"BIL is once again sticking to its responsibilities and obligations," he said.
Asked what the board would consider and the options available Cushing said: "For the group there are a number of initiatives that we will be looking at assiduously, as usual."
Air NZ shares bounced off fresh all-time lows on Monday, with investors reassured by signs that the airline may be near to completing a refinancing plan.
Air NZ's unrestricted B shares last traded up seven cents at NZ$0.88 while the airline's New Zealand resident-only A shares last traded up two cents at NZ$0.72. They had earlier traded at NZ$0.71 and NZ$0.60 respectively.
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PM urged to return to tackle Ansett
From AAP
10sep01
OPPOSITION leader Kim Beazley has demanded Prime Minister John Howard return home from Washington immediately to deal with the Ansett crisis.
Mr Howard is in the US for talks with American President George W Bush.
But as the Ansett crisis deepens and the jobs of 16,000 Australians hang in the balance, Mr Beazley said Mr Howard should return home.
"The Prime Minister should come back from Washington at once," Mr Beazley said in Sydney today.
"He should be here. This is a major crisis."
Mr Beazley said the entitlements of workers were at risk if Ansett folded.
"This airline has been operating in Australia for the lifetime of just about all Australians," he said.
Mr Beazley said he would support relaxing competition laws to enable the takeover of Ansett by Qantas if it meant securing jobs.
From AAP
10sep01
OPPOSITION leader Kim Beazley has demanded Prime Minister John Howard return home from Washington immediately to deal with the Ansett crisis.
Mr Howard is in the US for talks with American President George W Bush.
But as the Ansett crisis deepens and the jobs of 16,000 Australians hang in the balance, Mr Beazley said Mr Howard should return home.
"The Prime Minister should come back from Washington at once," Mr Beazley said in Sydney today.
"He should be here. This is a major crisis."
Mr Beazley said the entitlements of workers were at risk if Ansett folded.
"This airline has been operating in Australia for the lifetime of just about all Australians," he said.
Mr Beazley said he would support relaxing competition laws to enable the takeover of Ansett by Qantas if it meant securing jobs.
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If (and i quote) "Air New Zealand today called on the Australian government to take responsibility for Ansett..." it seems to me they are surendering the responsibilities of owership.
If that's the case, they should 'hand over the deeds' to the people they say should take over responsibility. A suggested price to m mind would be $1.00 - and that's $1.00 NZ!
No one yet has mentioned the man who I think was really pulling he strings behind ANZ's ridiculous buyout of AN when SQ made their initial ofer.
My money would be that the scenario went something along these lines (simlpified for brevity). Long before he had to admit it publically, the D.D. was more that aware of what a basket case AN had become thanks to his and the Fat Man's asset-stripping and mismanagement.
He also knew that he SQ board would see through this as well about five minutes after they gained access to the real books.
So he suggests to the right people across the Tasman that it was time they bought his share at the price he nominated. He's then out, money in hand, and as usual, the 'gummints' on both sides of the Tasman will have to pick up the pieces.
I think I said as much on a earlier thread, long before this crisis brewed to its current boiling point - you can rest assured that the Oz Govermnet will come up with some spectacularly half-arsed, convoluted and almost unworkable solution that will end up costing the long-suffering Oz taxpayer a fortune and leave them with nothing in their hands, but plenty of egg on their faces.
It's time to start buying back the farm gents.
If that's the case, they should 'hand over the deeds' to the people they say should take over responsibility. A suggested price to m mind would be $1.00 - and that's $1.00 NZ!
No one yet has mentioned the man who I think was really pulling he strings behind ANZ's ridiculous buyout of AN when SQ made their initial ofer.
My money would be that the scenario went something along these lines (simlpified for brevity). Long before he had to admit it publically, the D.D. was more that aware of what a basket case AN had become thanks to his and the Fat Man's asset-stripping and mismanagement.
He also knew that he SQ board would see through this as well about five minutes after they gained access to the real books.
So he suggests to the right people across the Tasman that it was time they bought his share at the price he nominated. He's then out, money in hand, and as usual, the 'gummints' on both sides of the Tasman will have to pick up the pieces.
I think I said as much on a earlier thread, long before this crisis brewed to its current boiling point - you can rest assured that the Oz Govermnet will come up with some spectacularly half-arsed, convoluted and almost unworkable solution that will end up costing the long-suffering Oz taxpayer a fortune and leave them with nothing in their hands, but plenty of egg on their faces.
It's time to start buying back the farm gents.
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I don't know where that BG Lee twerp gets off playing the racist card, given from whence he hails.
Wiley I never did work out why they sold the farm in the first place.
Comes from the Government "Look we have saved you a massive 30 % by only raising the rate by 20% instead of 50%" school of thinking.
Win lose or draw it's game over for the Ansett of yesterday.
Wiley I never did work out why they sold the farm in the first place.
Comes from the Government "Look we have saved you a massive 30 % by only raising the rate by 20% instead of 50%" school of thinking.
Win lose or draw it's game over for the Ansett of yesterday.
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Latest official press release from Air NZ..............
Air NZ and Qantas Start Discussions on Ansett (issued at 1950)
Mon 10 September 2001
The Board of Air New Zealand Limited has offered to sell its Ansett subsidiary businesses to Qantas Airways Limited and has entered into discussions with Qantas, the Acting Chairman of Air New Zealand, Dr Jim Farmer, announced today.
"Ansett is continuing normal operations, and Qantas and Air New Zealand will continue discussions over the next few days on the terms of any acquisition of Ansett by Qantas.
"Any transaction would be subject to due diligence and approvals of the Australian and New Zealand Governments and regulatory approvals, including that of the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission.
"The Board of Air New Zealand expects to be able to make an announcement on the progress of the discussions with Qantas on, or before, Thursday 13 September when the company is due to present its annual results.
"Meantime, Air New Zealand, its major shareholders, Brierley Investment Limited and Singapore Airlines Limited, and the New Zealand Government are continuing to negotiate in good faith to finalise arrangements to provide on-going financial support for the operation of Air New Zealand international and domestic airlines operations," Dr Farmer said.
Air NZ and Qantas Start Discussions on Ansett (issued at 1950)
Mon 10 September 2001
The Board of Air New Zealand Limited has offered to sell its Ansett subsidiary businesses to Qantas Airways Limited and has entered into discussions with Qantas, the Acting Chairman of Air New Zealand, Dr Jim Farmer, announced today.
"Ansett is continuing normal operations, and Qantas and Air New Zealand will continue discussions over the next few days on the terms of any acquisition of Ansett by Qantas.
"Any transaction would be subject to due diligence and approvals of the Australian and New Zealand Governments and regulatory approvals, including that of the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission.
"The Board of Air New Zealand expects to be able to make an announcement on the progress of the discussions with Qantas on, or before, Thursday 13 September when the company is due to present its annual results.
"Meantime, Air New Zealand, its major shareholders, Brierley Investment Limited and Singapore Airlines Limited, and the New Zealand Government are continuing to negotiate in good faith to finalise arrangements to provide on-going financial support for the operation of Air New Zealand international and domestic airlines operations," Dr Farmer said.
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So it looks as though Ansett will be owned by Aussies again (forgetting about BA at the moment).
I bet the competition watchdogs in Aus will be hopping mad.
Not to mention RB!!
I bet the competition watchdogs in Aus will be hopping mad.
Not to mention RB!!
Air NZ offers Qantas Ansett
Sep 10 18:49
AAP
Air New Zealand Ltd on Monday confirmed it has offered to sell its Ansett subsidiary businesses to Qantas Airways Limited and has entered into discussions.
"The Board of Air NZ Ltd has offered to sell its Ansett subsidiary businesses to Qantas Airways Ltd and has entered into discussions with Qantas," Air NZ acting chairman Mr Jim Farmer said.
"Ansett is continuing normal operations - and Qantas and Air New Zealand will continue discussions over the next few days on the terms of any acquisition of Ansett by Qantas.
"Any transaction would be subject to due diligence and approvals of the Australian and New Zealand Governments and regulatory approvals, including that of the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission," Mr Farmer said.
"Meantime, Air New Zealand, its major shareholders, Brierley Investment Ltd and Singapore Airlines Limited, and the New Zealand Government are continuing to negotiate in good faith to finalise arrangements to provide on-going financial support for the operation of Air New Zealand international and domestic airlines operations," Dr Farmer said.
Qantas said it was also in discussions with discounter Virgin Blue regarding the Ansett businesses.
Qantas chief executive Mr Geoff Dixon said Qantas was mindful of the need for a robust and competitive aviation industry in Australasia.
But he added that it was a capital intensive, high cost and highly regulated industry that was experiencing extremely difficult conditions throughout the world.
"While we will do whatever we can to assist Ansett, our principal responsibility must be to our own customers, our shareholders and to our staff. We will not take any action that would put in jeopardy Qantas' interests," he said.
Mr Dixon said that the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission was not opposed to Qantas entering negotiations with Air NZ.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sep 10 18:49
AAP
Air New Zealand Ltd on Monday confirmed it has offered to sell its Ansett subsidiary businesses to Qantas Airways Limited and has entered into discussions.
"The Board of Air NZ Ltd has offered to sell its Ansett subsidiary businesses to Qantas Airways Ltd and has entered into discussions with Qantas," Air NZ acting chairman Mr Jim Farmer said.
"Ansett is continuing normal operations - and Qantas and Air New Zealand will continue discussions over the next few days on the terms of any acquisition of Ansett by Qantas.
"Any transaction would be subject to due diligence and approvals of the Australian and New Zealand Governments and regulatory approvals, including that of the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission," Mr Farmer said.
"Meantime, Air New Zealand, its major shareholders, Brierley Investment Ltd and Singapore Airlines Limited, and the New Zealand Government are continuing to negotiate in good faith to finalise arrangements to provide on-going financial support for the operation of Air New Zealand international and domestic airlines operations," Dr Farmer said.
Qantas said it was also in discussions with discounter Virgin Blue regarding the Ansett businesses.
Qantas chief executive Mr Geoff Dixon said Qantas was mindful of the need for a robust and competitive aviation industry in Australasia.
But he added that it was a capital intensive, high cost and highly regulated industry that was experiencing extremely difficult conditions throughout the world.
"While we will do whatever we can to assist Ansett, our principal responsibility must be to our own customers, our shareholders and to our staff. We will not take any action that would put in jeopardy Qantas' interests," he said.
Mr Dixon said that the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission was not opposed to Qantas entering negotiations with Air NZ.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Any discussion between Qantas and Air NZ is simply about keeping Ansett in the air until the banks can work out who gets the assets.In blunt terms who inherits how much brown smelly stuff.
Be under no delusion that Ansett will still be flying.
Qantas is willing to play along to ensure it can move it's domestic market share to 65%-70% with ACCC blessing. The boost to its share price will give it the courage to exercise some largesse.
Be under no delusion that Ansett will still be flying.
Qantas is willing to play along to ensure it can move it's domestic market share to 65%-70% with ACCC blessing. The boost to its share price will give it the courage to exercise some largesse.
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So Traffic,
you think this is a cunning plan by QF to swallow a larger share of the market in a semi endorsed fashion?
What about the people? Where will they be in 6 months??
you think this is a cunning plan by QF to swallow a larger share of the market in a semi endorsed fashion?
What about the people? Where will they be in 6 months??
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Hardly cunning.Pretty elementary really.
QF could eventually get there with the demise of Ansett but why not put a few sheckles on the table and look like the good guy in the process.The QF share price surge gives them left hand seat seat.
As to all the people. Many will lose their jobs in the shakeout and many of the many will probably stay in the industry on a lower pay scale either working for a subsidiary of Qantas or one of the "created" competitors.
We always talk about face being the preserve of us folk in the Orient. It is at least as relevant a factor for the rest of humanity, especially Antipodean management.
The banks are lodging the flight plan. You either take it in the face as a shareholder in Air NZ or a shareholder in the main banks. If some of the agony can be flick passed to Qantas and buffered by a turnup in the Qantas share price then that is what will happen.
Noone wants Ansett, therefore it is dead.The bigger question is will Air NZ survive this pique of pride and the surgery to follow?
QF could eventually get there with the demise of Ansett but why not put a few sheckles on the table and look like the good guy in the process.The QF share price surge gives them left hand seat seat.
As to all the people. Many will lose their jobs in the shakeout and many of the many will probably stay in the industry on a lower pay scale either working for a subsidiary of Qantas or one of the "created" competitors.
We always talk about face being the preserve of us folk in the Orient. It is at least as relevant a factor for the rest of humanity, especially Antipodean management.
The banks are lodging the flight plan. You either take it in the face as a shareholder in Air NZ or a shareholder in the main banks. If some of the agony can be flick passed to Qantas and buffered by a turnup in the Qantas share price then that is what will happen.
Noone wants Ansett, therefore it is dead.The bigger question is will Air NZ survive this pique of pride and the surgery to follow?
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Which ever way it goes Qantas is going to get a very large chunk of the market.
I still say that the hole Ansett is in is too deep and any offer for Qantas and/or Virgin to buy AN would require a very considerable capital injection by someone. The over-staffing, mostly unwanted old multi-type fleet and debt could be too big a hurdle. Maybe parts of the Company will be purchased by Qantas and Virgin and save some jobs.
I just heard on BBC that the current discussions underway between ANZ, Qantas and Virgin have been described as Ansetts last chance and the Australian Government has recommended ANZ accept any offer/offers???? I believe the key will be how the debt is handled.
On the other hand Qantas may decide not to spend anything and just take the windfall increase in market share.
have a nice day
I still say that the hole Ansett is in is too deep and any offer for Qantas and/or Virgin to buy AN would require a very considerable capital injection by someone. The over-staffing, mostly unwanted old multi-type fleet and debt could be too big a hurdle. Maybe parts of the Company will be purchased by Qantas and Virgin and save some jobs.
I just heard on BBC that the current discussions underway between ANZ, Qantas and Virgin have been described as Ansetts last chance and the Australian Government has recommended ANZ accept any offer/offers???? I believe the key will be how the debt is handled.
On the other hand Qantas may decide not to spend anything and just take the windfall increase in market share.
have a nice day
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One other thing while I am here, if Qantas and Virgin are the last option then I'm afraid whichever way it goes staff numbers will suffer. I say this because look what happened when Impulse was taken over by Qantas - the staff got the flick.
Have a nice day
Have a nice day
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SYDNEY (Dow Jones)--The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission said Monday it had allowed Qantas Airways Ltd. (A.QAN) to enter into talks about the future of domestic market rival Ansett partly due to concerns that Ansett may cease trading.
ACCC chairman Allan Fels said the commission it expects parties other than Qantas to also engage in talks with Ansett and its parent company, Air New Zealand Ltd. (A.AIZ).
Qantas said earlier Monday it will examine Ansett's businesses and will also hold talks with Virgin Blue, a no-frills carrier in the Australian market.
"The ACCC has had discussions with the parties and considered that there was a risk that Ansett may cease trading," Fels said.
"The ACCC has not given Qantas the go-ahead to acquire any of Ansett's assets but the ACCC will consider any proposals, from any parties, that are brought forward. No such formal proposals have been submitted," he said.
Fels later said on Australian Broadcasting Corp. television that his reference to other parties meant beyond Qantas and Virgin Blue.
ACCC chairman Allan Fels said the commission it expects parties other than Qantas to also engage in talks with Ansett and its parent company, Air New Zealand Ltd. (A.AIZ).
Qantas said earlier Monday it will examine Ansett's businesses and will also hold talks with Virgin Blue, a no-frills carrier in the Australian market.
"The ACCC has had discussions with the parties and considered that there was a risk that Ansett may cease trading," Fels said.
"The ACCC has not given Qantas the go-ahead to acquire any of Ansett's assets but the ACCC will consider any proposals, from any parties, that are brought forward. No such formal proposals have been submitted," he said.
Fels later said on Australian Broadcasting Corp. television that his reference to other parties meant beyond Qantas and Virgin Blue.
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Dow Jones Newswires 10-09-01
0907GMT Few Airlines Interested
Qantas said earlier it had been asked by the government and Air New Zealand to look at Ansett.
"Qantas' involvement isn't so much a bid as a willingness to look closely at the business, to do a sort of pre-due diligence," Anderson said.
Qantas's agreement is the best option available because few airlines are in a good enough shape or would have the desire to look at Ansett, he added.
"The reality that we face is that not many airlines around the world will have the sort of synergies with Ansett and its infrastructure...that would make it attractive to take on Ansett in its current situation," he said.
Still, Anderson said competition issues must be addressed if any purchase by Qantas is to go ahead.
"It is obvious there will be real competition issues that have to be addressed," he said. "Our objective here is to produce the most competitive outcome."
Qantas and Air New Zealand said earlier they will hold discussions over the next two days to explore whether a Qantas purchase of Ansett, Air New Zealand's subsidiary, is feasible.
The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission is allowing the two airlines to talk but hasn't yet agreed to any sale of assets to Qantas.
Qantas expects to have "an initial indication of the feasibility of the plan by the evening of Wednesday Sept. 12," Anderson said.
Air New Zealand is due to issue its financial results Thursday "so the timing is tight and I don't underestimate the gravity of the situation at all," he said.
No-one had any idea until last week that "we were seriously talking about a complete collapse" of Ansett, said Anderson, who is Acting Prime Minister while John Howard is visiting the United States. - - 10/09/01 09-17G
0907GMT Few Airlines Interested
Qantas said earlier it had been asked by the government and Air New Zealand to look at Ansett.
"Qantas' involvement isn't so much a bid as a willingness to look closely at the business, to do a sort of pre-due diligence," Anderson said.
Qantas's agreement is the best option available because few airlines are in a good enough shape or would have the desire to look at Ansett, he added.
"The reality that we face is that not many airlines around the world will have the sort of synergies with Ansett and its infrastructure...that would make it attractive to take on Ansett in its current situation," he said.
Still, Anderson said competition issues must be addressed if any purchase by Qantas is to go ahead.
"It is obvious there will be real competition issues that have to be addressed," he said. "Our objective here is to produce the most competitive outcome."
Qantas and Air New Zealand said earlier they will hold discussions over the next two days to explore whether a Qantas purchase of Ansett, Air New Zealand's subsidiary, is feasible.
The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission is allowing the two airlines to talk but hasn't yet agreed to any sale of assets to Qantas.
Qantas expects to have "an initial indication of the feasibility of the plan by the evening of Wednesday Sept. 12," Anderson said.
Air New Zealand is due to issue its financial results Thursday "so the timing is tight and I don't underestimate the gravity of the situation at all," he said.
No-one had any idea until last week that "we were seriously talking about a complete collapse" of Ansett, said Anderson, who is Acting Prime Minister while John Howard is visiting the United States. - - 10/09/01 09-17G