Ardmore/North Shore
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Ardmore/North Shore
G'day folks,. . Could any of you guys give me some advice on going to Ardmore or North Shore for going from PPL to CPL. Any advice would be great.
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My advice would be neither!!! . .. .Ardmore is a pilot trap, usual story is to do training incl. C-Cat and then compete with 10's of other C-Cats for the 1's of jobs that might be available. North Shore not as bad but a similar path.. .. .If you are able to do full time training, look around the country for places where commercial ops may be involved. . .. .Some examples are: BoP Flight Centre / Sunair (TG), Scott Air (WK), Air Gisborne (GS), Feilding Aviation / Air Charter Manawatu (FI), Air Acadmey (HS), Wanganui Aero Club / Air Wanganui (WU), NP Aero Club / Air NP (NP). . .. .Not overly familiar with Sth Island Operators but Whakatipu Aero Club (QN)have a good reputation as does Mainland Air in Dunedin.. .. .Hope this helps and to AR instructors who read this nothing personal, just speaking from experience!. .. .S2K
I'm with you Sqwark 2000. Need to think outside of Auckland. I did some training in Auckland and got out very quickly once I found out what opportunities there where at those airfields ....NONE.. .. .Best bet I believe at the moment would be Air Academy in Hastings. A long way from home but a larger chance for a job afterwards.. .. .Good luck
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hollydog. .. .have to agree with others, northshore and ardmore are the traps in the aviation scene. both proclaim to be good but most of the pilots that come out of there are BIG HEADS who need to be retrained.. .. .as fly real fast said, hasting is a good place along with flight centre in the Bay of Plenty. And there is hope of moving on to a real job. not just instructing. (No offense to those instructors out there). .. .Get out and go to a few of these places, meet the people as you will be living and flying with them for a while.. .. .And remember to slap some ass in doing so....... . . . <small>[ 07 March 2002, 23:50: Message edited by: kavu ]</small>
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I wholeheartedly agree with all the above - lok elsewhere - except maybe "Simulflite" - give them a look - BUT they are all promising more than can deliver, and selling the "pup" that you don't need experience, just a fancy bit of paper - which is C...p in my book.
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Well if leaving Auckland is not an option for you I would really have to recommend NSAC. Instructor quality at the aeroclubs is generally of a higher standard and the atmosphere far more friendly. Also once you've operated on that shoelace wide strip you souldn't have too many problems anywhere else.
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balding eagle. .. .i would have to say to your comment. .. ."Instructor quality at the aeroclubs is generally of a higher standard and the atmosphere far more friendly". .. .Well the second part is true about being friendly but the problem with aeroclubs is that they are not of a higher standard. My association with both flying clubs and professional training organisations is that the aeroclubs cater more for the recreational pilot and not the professional one.. .. .If you want a career in aviation then goto a professional training operation. But not to underdo the good that aeroclubs do provide, they do help with emerging talent but often don't have the resources to go further than PPL level.
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Kavu , One thing that annoys the hell outta me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" /> is people separating pilots into Professional & Recreation. Surely all pilots should aim to be professional, even the ones who don't fly for a living.. .. .Also your comment about aeroclubs not being upto the standards of "professional" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" /> flight schools is a little infactual, there are lots of good Aero Clubs that turn out CPL's of higher calibre than some flight schools I know of. . .. .Holly Dog - My advice to you if you can move away from Auckland, if you can drive around the country - North & South, talk to the Schools / Clubs & there students & find a place you like, But if you do stay in Auckland avoid Ardmore like the plague <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />
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blue line. .. .i don't mean to take the p*&s but you can't be serious about aeroclubs are you?. .. .sure there are a number of professional flight schools out there that don't cut the grade. quite a few in ardmore. but the majority of them have the infrastructure in place to do the job, pity about the instructors.. .. .there's no point in rehashing the debate about prof. schools vs aeroclubs (we could be here for years. . .. .in any case i think the point for the person concerned is to get out there and listen to rumours and the truth from other students, other pilots in the industry (whether recreational flying or career flying) and see who gives the best training.. .. .i've trained at the some aeroclubs and some flight schools. in my opinion the flight schools are the way to go.. . . . <small>[ 11 March 2002, 09:19: Message edited by: kavu ]</small>
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Because it's so difficult to get the whole picture from just a couple of visits to a flight school - could anyone expand on the reasons for avoiding Ardmore so much ? Specifically, Ardmore Flying School and Massey ? They both seem very popular and professional set ups or am I missing something ?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" />
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They are both mass production centres. Ardmore Aerodrome is busy. In addition to local training, they also get foreign pilots (usually Asian cadets) training with Massey, and this can cause problems with traffic and airmanship, etc.. .. .Flying schools are okay, as was said sometimes they lack mature and dedicated (dedicated to the student, not to their logbook as sometimes happens) staff to do the job properly. But don't expect to hire an aircraft from either of these places if you want to hour-build once you have your licence. If they say they do hire aircraft to people after the PPL, make sure you know what the minimum hours of flying time they expect from each outing are.. .. .Aero Clubs on the other hand will not only provide good training to a high standard, but also encourage you to develop your flying after you have achieved your licences. They have no problem with hiring aircraft for casual flying to their members, who are entitled to use all club facilities (including aircraft). I recommend you have a read of this website: <a href="http://www.rnzac.org.nz" target="_blank">Royal New Zealand Aero Club</a> . Aero Clubs regularly provide competitions, trips, and lots of other activities for you to take part in, all of which no normal flying school can offer. However, as a warning, please avoid establishments that claim to be aero clubs that do not appear on the current RNZAC list. For more personalised training and encouragement, try either Auckland Aero Club <a href="http://www.aac.org.nz" target="_blank">Auckland Aero Club</a> or North Shore Aero Club <a href="http://www.nsac.co.nz" target="_blank">North Shore Aero Club</a> (but only if you really, really have to stay in Auckland).. .. .Drop me an email if you want any further info or ideas.. .. .Kermie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
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I did all my training at North Shore and Ardmore 12 years ago, at the time it seemed like a bad move,it was a highly competitive enviroment, there where only a few jobs to go around so getting hours was a slow and arduous process.. .. .However I met alot of people from all sorts of different aviation backgrounds and made some good friends and contacts, which helped later on getting jobs.. .All of my mates from N.S and Ardmore have done well, all have good jobs.. .. .As for having "big heads" and "requiring extra training" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" /> well I guess Kavu is the person to ask, he knows all of the thousands of people trained in the Auckland region personally and is in a position to make an intelligent judgement based on his vast aviation experience <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .I note that Kavu posted on the Fragrant harbour forum recently, inquiring about the hiring ban. . .Still got alot of work to do I see, comments like this won't help your cause mate.. .. .My advice is look outside of Auckland if you can, you'll more than likely get hours quicker.
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HollyDog... .. .As someone who originally grew up in Auckland, then moved away to do flight training, can't say I've regretted it... .. .I won't get into a p#ssing contest over who is better, Aeroclubs or Flight Schools. . .. .Having now hung around some aeroclubs, I'd have to say that their approach is more friendlier and open.. but I don't see how they're less professional than the instructors at Flight Schools. They just wear less gold bars.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .And where do you think that places like Massey often get their instructors from??. .. .But in saying that, going to a 'Professional Flight School' will allow you to gain qualifications that might not be otherwise available from a Aeroclub. . .. .I think if I were to have to start over again, I'd goto a commercial operator like Squawk said, somewhere like Air Napier, or Air Gisborne. Drive down there and SEE THEM. Shows your keen. Front up and say I want to get into flying for a career, where do I go from there? . .Getting in with a commercial operator allows you the chance of getting commercial work with them afterwards, especially good when some of the outfits have twin engine aircraft. And finding twin time in New Zealand is like trying to find a virgin in a wh*re house...
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Thank you all for your words of wisdom - it's greatly appreciated and has given me plenty of food for thought.. .Now where did I put that road map ........ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />
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I would have to echo the comments about leaning to fly in a commercial environment. I have been involved with bringing pilots up to speed on commercial ops on a number of occasions and I must say that guys (and girls) that have been in a commercial enviroment definatly require less work. After a while trying to "Beat" the aeroclub habits out of people can get a little tiring.. .However going back to the original question I would say that NSAC looks after their own a little more than ardmore operations AND THEY HAVE A BAR FOR CHRI$T'S SAKE WHAT MORE ENCOURAGMENT DO YOU NEED!!!
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As much as I have appreciated (and taken on board) all the info everyone has given, I'm still intrigued to know why AFS or North Shore (or the Auckland region in general)is such a bad choice ?. .What do you mean by a "pilot trap" folks ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" />
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Holly Dog, AKL is a pilot trap because of the glut of instructors in the region. All they are doing is intruction, no difference between any of them, no commercial experience and most are being led down the garden path by some senior CFI's who say do a B cat before an Instrument rating. Whatever you do, get that Single Pilot MEIR, even if you don't need it right away, at least you have it and can get it current. Ask yourself this, what airline in the world, starting from the operators Duff mentioned, require a Bcat over a MEIR? Thats right, none!!!! You WILL need a MEIR so get that asap. Get down to Hawkes Bay, Gisborne or Tauranga, Bay of Plenty flight centre and get talking to them, as they have associated Commercial ops, and that kind of experience is outstanding, far away and above grinding around instructing. . .. .Duff: Mountain Air like min 500hrs total with Single Pilot MEIR, commercial experience, and a good work history, preferably dealing with the public in customer service roles. GBA can do your MEIR for you, but expect to do office work and baggage handling for awhile. When you do post your CV, follow up with a phone call and try and meet with the staff. Keep updating on a regular basis and if called for an interview be professional and competent.. .Good luck!. . . . <small>[ 13 March 2002, 21:10: Message edited by: NoseGear ]</small>