Flight and Duty Times
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Join Date: May 2001
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Flight and Duty Times
G'day People,
everyone I speak to has a different spin on this issue - would appriecate some input.....
Does a commercial pilot have to include private flying in their flight or duty time limitations ???
What about when doing free ICUS time on days off with another operator ??
Any thoughts ??
Thanks :-)
everyone I speak to has a different spin on this issue - would appriecate some input.....
Does a commercial pilot have to include private flying in their flight or duty time limitations ???
What about when doing free ICUS time on days off with another operator ??
Any thoughts ??
Thanks :-)
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Do as much "private" flying as you want AFTER you sign off from your commercial work BUT what you fly and your duty time doing that flying MUST be counted in totals and therefor must be considered with regard to your NEXT commercial requirement. 
Join Date: May 2001
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YES.
Basic rule is anything in your logbook is counted as flight time including ICUS and if you are working for a commercial operation even days when you were on duty but didn't actually fly count toward your flight and duty limitations.
Flight meaning time in the air and
Duty meaning time during briefing,planning,preparing flight administration etc.
****** if you dont fly for days but are doing duty then get the opportunity to fly for 6 days straight but cant because your duty time doesn,t allow it.
Hope this has been explained well enough, almost confused myself there.
Basic rule is anything in your logbook is counted as flight time including ICUS and if you are working for a commercial operation even days when you were on duty but didn't actually fly count toward your flight and duty limitations.
Flight meaning time in the air and
Duty meaning time during briefing,planning,preparing flight administration etc.
****** if you dont fly for days but are doing duty then get the opportunity to fly for 6 days straight but cant because your duty time doesn,t allow it.
Hope this has been explained well enough, almost confused myself there.
Join Date: Aug 2001
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AUST,
There are no specific instructions regarding the situation you mentioned. However as stated above, if you log it and you then engage in Commercial or Airwork operations for hire or reward, you must include the flight and duty time utilised on the PVT op when calculating subsequent 14 day duty and 7,30 & 365 day flying.
Cheers Smithy
There are no specific instructions regarding the situation you mentioned. However as stated above, if you log it and you then engage in Commercial or Airwork operations for hire or reward, you must include the flight and duty time utilised on the PVT op when calculating subsequent 14 day duty and 7,30 & 365 day flying.
Cheers Smithy
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Pantyripper,
If you are now doing commercial/awk ops under an AOC you are required to account for the private flying in your 365 and (if appropriate) 30 days running total. If the operations were for commercial purposes such as parachuting or joyflighting you should cover your butt and have a Flight and Duty time record for the period including all flight time, associated duty time and 7, 30 and 365 day totals. My friendly CASA rep informs me there is no leeway for the "I'm ok on spec" approach. It must be provable on paper. Excell or a similar spreadsheet program is easy enough to set up for this task
Cheers Smithy
[ 25 October 2001: Message edited by: Greg Smithy ]
If you are now doing commercial/awk ops under an AOC you are required to account for the private flying in your 365 and (if appropriate) 30 days running total. If the operations were for commercial purposes such as parachuting or joyflighting you should cover your butt and have a Flight and Duty time record for the period including all flight time, associated duty time and 7, 30 and 365 day totals. My friendly CASA rep informs me there is no leeway for the "I'm ok on spec" approach. It must be provable on paper. Excell or a similar spreadsheet program is easy enough to set up for this task
Cheers Smithy
[ 25 October 2001: Message edited by: Greg Smithy ]
Join Date: Aug 2001
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CAO 48.0 para 1.3 states that the holder of a CPL or ATPL who is engaged in commercial operations must include all private flying when calculating flight and duty limitations.
I take this to mean if you only fly privately on a commercial licence flight and duty is not an issue. But as soon as you conduct a commercial flight al flight time regardless of its nature must be included in flight and duty calculations.
One of the early CAA dispensations to CAO 48 did allow private flying to be kept separate to commercial flying, but the dispensations is not now available.
I take this to mean if you only fly privately on a commercial licence flight and duty is not an issue. But as soon as you conduct a commercial flight al flight time regardless of its nature must be included in flight and duty calculations.
One of the early CAA dispensations to CAO 48 did allow private flying to be kept separate to commercial flying, but the dispensations is not now available.
Join Date: Aug 2001
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T34,
As you correctly quote :
"CAO 48.0 para 1.3 states that the holder of a CPL or ATPL who is engaged in commercial operations must include all private flying when calculating flight and DUTY limitations."
Therefore you must also account for Duty time in order to prove that you have not exceeded 90 hours in any nominated fortnight if you then re-engage in flying for commercial purposes. I think it is also important to note that whilst you may fly a PVT cat aircraft on a nominated PVT cat sortie BUT you recieve renumeration or reward (ie experience) then by definition the only license which you may be utilising is a CPL or higher UNLESS you are contributing to the cost of the flight under the cost sharing provisions of CAR 2 INTERPRETATION, Section 7A. Note for skydiving/joyflighting - Very specifically prohibits any form of advertising for the flight, max POB 6 and all persons on board for the sortie must contribute EQUALLY to the cost. Ergo if operating on a CPL or higher you are then regulated by CAO 48.1 provisions and must be able to produce the appropriate documentation when requested.
Cheers Smithy
As you correctly quote :
"CAO 48.0 para 1.3 states that the holder of a CPL or ATPL who is engaged in commercial operations must include all private flying when calculating flight and DUTY limitations."
Therefore you must also account for Duty time in order to prove that you have not exceeded 90 hours in any nominated fortnight if you then re-engage in flying for commercial purposes. I think it is also important to note that whilst you may fly a PVT cat aircraft on a nominated PVT cat sortie BUT you recieve renumeration or reward (ie experience) then by definition the only license which you may be utilising is a CPL or higher UNLESS you are contributing to the cost of the flight under the cost sharing provisions of CAR 2 INTERPRETATION, Section 7A. Note for skydiving/joyflighting - Very specifically prohibits any form of advertising for the flight, max POB 6 and all persons on board for the sortie must contribute EQUALLY to the cost. Ergo if operating on a CPL or higher you are then regulated by CAO 48.1 provisions and must be able to produce the appropriate documentation when requested.
Cheers Smithy
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Flight and duty limitations are there to protect against fatigue......the silent killer. Do you think private flying does'nt cause fatigue?
How did you pass your CPL FR&P's when you can't even interpret basic CAO's?
How did you pass your CPL FR&P's when you can't even interpret basic CAO's?
