New Ansett Award
Join Date: Sep 2001
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beerbrewer,
great.F/As get DTA but not pilots etc..
I think that a lot don`t have a choice regards overseas employment,they are blackbanned.Not much choice in Oz either.So that leaves AN and whatever is thrown on the table.
Just the facts,I think.
great.F/As get DTA but not pilots etc..
I think that a lot don`t have a choice regards overseas employment,they are blackbanned.Not much choice in Oz either.So that leaves AN and whatever is thrown on the table.
Just the facts,I think.
Join Date: Dec 1999
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And further to my last post, the APA is so pathetically weak they have given up the DTA allowance of $3.90 per hour for an overnight allowance of $17.25. That might buy four beers. But the flight attendants are still going to get their DTA and it would appear a cabin manager will get paid more than an FO. All the other staff will still get their base pay with productivity trade offs but not the pilots. No. The APA had to negotiate a big pay cut and nobody even knows who negotiated it. Does Fox/Lew know A320 pilots don't grow on trees? They mightn't but the APA certainly does! There's been no comment from the APA about why they have let this come about.
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got a agree with bulldog
a lot of guys will stay at ansett,NOT because they wont to live in Australia, its because of there action in 1989.
i know the sc@b's wont get a look in here
[ 08 December 2001: Message edited by: the lima lima lima club ]
[ 08 December 2001: Message edited by: the lima lima lima club ]
a lot of guys will stay at ansett,NOT because they wont to live in Australia, its because of there action in 1989.
i know the sc@b's wont get a look in here
[ 08 December 2001: Message edited by: the lima lima lima club ]
[ 08 December 2001: Message edited by: the lima lima lima club ]
Join Date: Dec 1999
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I would have thought that the APA would not have been so industrialy niave. If Fox/Lew want this airline up and running on January 31, I feel the APA were in a good bargaining position.
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EPIRB,
I think some maybe bargaining for their own positions,think about it,history and present circumstances.A plausible conspiracy.
Things don`t make sense,the secrecy etc....Kaptain M your thoughts on what`s going on.
I think some maybe bargaining for their own positions,think about it,history and present circumstances.A plausible conspiracy.
Things don`t make sense,the secrecy etc....Kaptain M your thoughts on what`s going on.
Join Date: Mar 1999
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bulldog 69, EPIRB & Home Brew,
Just slow down a moment or two and take some time to read carefully what is there. Rather than a knee jerk reaction THINK about what you read. If the AFAP had heeded the same kind of advice in earlier times a great tragedy would have been avoided.
So: If you commence a duty period at 0730 hrs work through to the evening for an overnight you will pick up $97.90. The only discrepancy I can spot is the additional $18.55 for incidentals. Think it should be $18.85. Most probably a typo.
You will find that the various allowances for Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner are in accordance with Australian Tax Office rulings based on salary level. Take the trouble to get a copy of The Taxpayers' Guide (unintentional plug) which covers the Tax Act in a readable and easily referenced form and it should become clear to you.
I may have missed it but although Superannuation is mentioned I don't think a figure was placed on it and how it would be paid is not clear. By that I mean; does it come from your pay or is it an additional amount direct from the employer and at what percentage of guaranteed pay rate? For instance if it is say 10% of $110000 straight from the employer it is equivalent to a grossed up extra earning of 1.9417 of the amount. So that makes an annual employer contribution of $11000 and to make the same contribution from your own after tax earnings you would have to earn 1.9417 times $11000 or $21358 extra for the year. How do you gross up? Simply divide the 51.5 cents you have left of your tax dollar into 100. Think in an earlier reply to ToolTT I gave a figure of 1.92 to gross up . That was from memory and slightly in error.
Since I am editing typos I will respond to the post below.
EPIRB, if you get a copy of the above publication it will help you to understand the difference. Good idea not to make odious comparisons with other staff. Just look after your own patch. I know there is another angle you may raise but again a little bit of knowlege can fix that. I won't bother going into it now. Anyway all of this is of no direct consequence to me but I do like to keep KapM honest in case he misinterprets the facts.
AND, nearly forgot, as Kap M and his ilk like to say: Sui Generis!!
[ 08 December 2001: Message edited by: Flat Side Up ]
Just slow down a moment or two and take some time to read carefully what is there. Rather than a knee jerk reaction THINK about what you read. If the AFAP had heeded the same kind of advice in earlier times a great tragedy would have been avoided.
So: If you commence a duty period at 0730 hrs work through to the evening for an overnight you will pick up $97.90. The only discrepancy I can spot is the additional $18.55 for incidentals. Think it should be $18.85. Most probably a typo.
You will find that the various allowances for Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner are in accordance with Australian Tax Office rulings based on salary level. Take the trouble to get a copy of The Taxpayers' Guide (unintentional plug) which covers the Tax Act in a readable and easily referenced form and it should become clear to you.
I may have missed it but although Superannuation is mentioned I don't think a figure was placed on it and how it would be paid is not clear. By that I mean; does it come from your pay or is it an additional amount direct from the employer and at what percentage of guaranteed pay rate? For instance if it is say 10% of $110000 straight from the employer it is equivalent to a grossed up extra earning of 1.9417 of the amount. So that makes an annual employer contribution of $11000 and to make the same contribution from your own after tax earnings you would have to earn 1.9417 times $11000 or $21358 extra for the year. How do you gross up? Simply divide the 51.5 cents you have left of your tax dollar into 100. Think in an earlier reply to ToolTT I gave a figure of 1.92 to gross up . That was from memory and slightly in error.
Since I am editing typos I will respond to the post below.
EPIRB, if you get a copy of the above publication it will help you to understand the difference. Good idea not to make odious comparisons with other staff. Just look after your own patch.
I know there is another angle you may raise but again a little bit of knowlege can fix that. I won't bother going into it now. Anyway all of this is of no direct consequence to me but I do like to keep KapM honest in case he misinterprets the facts.AND, nearly forgot, as Kap M and his ilk like to say: Sui Generis!!
[ 08 December 2001: Message edited by: Flat Side Up ]
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Memo to Fox and Lew. Some Pilots may be desperate enough to accept the deal but expect to pay big bucks to replace the Pilots that shoot through when things pick up offshore. Also I would have thought that a company that says it is spending 3 Billion dollars on new a/c would want to keep its most important employees on side. Don't you agree?
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
In answer to your question, EPIRB, I imagine that whomever drew up the latest pilot pay rates must have come to the SAME conclusion as most others - the pilots' remuneration in return for the (relatively) few hours (55) was not sustainable.
AN Mk2's contract will see pilot productivity increase by some 25%, and as has been pointed out to me on other threads, Ansett carried NO RESERVES - hence the 25% productivity increase must result in fewer pilots required, IF the hours being flown post Jan 31 are the same as pre-Sept 14 - but of course they won't be.
The FLEW AN Mk2 operation is going to be a far cry from the pre-Sept 14th Ansett.
Virgin Blue has taken advantage of Ansett's absence by expanding and strengthening its route structure, and by employing more AUSTRALIAN staff.
QANTAS have surged ahead!
So, EPIRB market conditions have altered dramatically for all players - AN Mk2's BIGGEST battle is going to be winning back PUBLIC CONFIDENCE. Groundings of the 767's twice, and the final, total collapse of Ansett has made the Aussie public very wary, and cleverly, Virgin Blue are using the terminal issues to maintain the "underdog" vs Ansett psyche.
Taking this into account, and Ansett's virtual absence, there is no guaranteed market share for AN Mk2 to pick up, post Jan. 31.
APA was NEVER going to be able to "negotiate" too much - if ANYTHING at all, with FLEW Syn. - much the same as the previous trucking magnate, Abeles, presented a "take-it-or-leave-it" contract.
And looking through the list of APA "heirachy", I see it is compr(om)ised by a more than few number of those who accepted Abeles contract. They know that if they were to try to negotiate, they would be undermined by individuals who would strike their own deal to secure a position at the expense of others
The question shouldn't be "How much are the pilots going to be paid?", but, "WHO are the pilots who are going to score a job?"
AN Mk2's contract will see pilot productivity increase by some 25%, and as has been pointed out to me on other threads, Ansett carried NO RESERVES - hence the 25% productivity increase must result in fewer pilots required, IF the hours being flown post Jan 31 are the same as pre-Sept 14 - but of course they won't be.
The FLEW AN Mk2 operation is going to be a far cry from the pre-Sept 14th Ansett.
Virgin Blue has taken advantage of Ansett's absence by expanding and strengthening its route structure, and by employing more AUSTRALIAN staff.
QANTAS have surged ahead!
So, EPIRB market conditions have altered dramatically for all players - AN Mk2's BIGGEST battle is going to be winning back PUBLIC CONFIDENCE. Groundings of the 767's twice, and the final, total collapse of Ansett has made the Aussie public very wary, and cleverly, Virgin Blue are using the terminal issues to maintain the "underdog" vs Ansett psyche.
Taking this into account, and Ansett's virtual absence, there is no guaranteed market share for AN Mk2 to pick up, post Jan. 31.
APA was NEVER going to be able to "negotiate" too much - if ANYTHING at all, with FLEW Syn. - much the same as the previous trucking magnate, Abeles, presented a "take-it-or-leave-it" contract.
And looking through the list of APA "heirachy", I see it is compr(om)ised by a more than few number of those who accepted Abeles contract. They know that if they were to try to negotiate, they would be undermined by individuals who would strike their own deal to secure a position at the expense of others
The question shouldn't be "How much are the pilots going to be paid?", but, "WHO are the pilots who are going to score a job?"
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Boeing Belly , having read your threads over the last 3 weeks I feel you have a case of Airbus Amnesia! 89 ers never had or will have working holidays overseas , just trying to rebuild and get on with life. So remember dont knock something you obviously know nothing about!!