Fellow professional australian pilots
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Fellow professional australian pilots
As I write this I am currently enduring the ramifications of the Ansett collapse.
It saddens me to read the recent posts which can best be described as a slanging match between supposedly, members of the same profession. If this bickering was about issues that effected safety, or the professional developement of our industry, I would not mind, however it is in relation to organisations for whom we, as a profession, should hold no direct financial interest, other than to supply a service and subsequently derive an income.
As a professional pilot whom does not agree with the VB recruitment process in principle. That is to say, the requirement of one of our colleagues to buy an aircraft endorsement. (God knows we have all spent a lot of money to attain our ATPL). And futhermore, someone who does not bear the battle scares of the '89 pilot strike. I think the time has come for all of us to start focussing on our profession and its members.
As I see it, any event (such as a merger between AN and VB) which stabilises the industry within which we all work, is long overdue. I for one, am looking forward to the day when I can go back to work and operate aircraft with fellow professional pilots , not for a particular operator.
It saddens me to read the recent posts which can best be described as a slanging match between supposedly, members of the same profession. If this bickering was about issues that effected safety, or the professional developement of our industry, I would not mind, however it is in relation to organisations for whom we, as a profession, should hold no direct financial interest, other than to supply a service and subsequently derive an income.
As a professional pilot whom does not agree with the VB recruitment process in principle. That is to say, the requirement of one of our colleagues to buy an aircraft endorsement. (God knows we have all spent a lot of money to attain our ATPL). And futhermore, someone who does not bear the battle scares of the '89 pilot strike. I think the time has come for all of us to start focussing on our profession and its members.
As I see it, any event (such as a merger between AN and VB) which stabilises the industry within which we all work, is long overdue. I for one, am looking forward to the day when I can go back to work and operate aircraft with fellow professional pilots , not for a particular operator.
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T Bone what was that all about <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> Are you saying that you are above and beyond us at VB because Ansett paid for your endorsement? Do you think it is only VB who require you to be endorsed before getting the job? I dont quite follow your post. I wouldnt hold your breath on waiting for Ansett to be rescued by VB though, it isnt a merger that theyre talking about, they made that quite clear. I
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You are missing my point. Furthermore, it's that type of post that is pissing me off. I dont care whether you work for VB, AN, QF or any of the other great airlines in Australia, you are a professional pilot, as I. What I was trying to say is, I think it is time we gave each other a little more respect than what I have seen from the posts of recent topics.
Anyway,. .I was using that as an example of the current state of our profession. It's not that VB or Impulse or anyone else in particular, make us pay for endorsements....it's that WE ARE paying.
Anyway,. .I was using that as an example of the current state of our profession. It's not that VB or Impulse or anyone else in particular, make us pay for endorsements....it's that WE ARE paying.
Well I', sorry to be so negative T-BONE, but from my point of view the need for some in our profession to have to purchase an endorsement in order to obtain relatively low salaried employment is a direct result of what happened to them in '89. No way around it. And those people know why they are in such a predicament. What do you expect?
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Flying Fox,
Don't kid yourself, if an endorsement was required pre '89, then people would have gone out and got them, that's for sure.
The behaviour of many during '89 proved that.
Don't kid yourself, if an endorsement was required pre '89, then people would have gone out and got them, that's for sure.
The behaviour of many during '89 proved that.
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Its funny how everyone refers to VB as a provider of relatively low income. When you've been stood down for the last 5 to 6 months without any income,whilst seeking ones entitlements, VB is a light at the end of the tunnel. 
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If you have thousands of hours and jet time. WHAT IT THE PROBLEM? Job prospects? - I think not. Thanks to Sept 11, Ansett and the aviation down turn poor scrubbers in GA have been set back about two years in there career. In GA we have always had to, and it looks like we now will always have to, pay huge sums for endorsements on the gamble of getting yet another low paying job.
If it wasn't for the love of flying no-one would do this job. What I think T-Bone is trying to say, and I agree, is that the situation is not our fault and running each other down does not help. If you are a professional aviator then you should be professional to aviators. Maybe then we will be able to restore the industry (and the professional pilot) to it's former glory.
. .VneII
[ 12 February 2002: Message edited by: VneII ]</p>
If it wasn't for the love of flying no-one would do this job. What I think T-Bone is trying to say, and I agree, is that the situation is not our fault and running each other down does not help. If you are a professional aviator then you should be professional to aviators. Maybe then we will be able to restore the industry (and the professional pilot) to it's former glory.
. .VneII
[ 12 February 2002: Message edited by: VneII ]</p>
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I like a number of others on this thread don't get your point T-bone, what is wrong with buying a type rating to secure a job? I think it is about time you and a number of others including Aust. aviation in general grew up and got with the rest of the world.
I invested in Compass II back in '92 which gave me an MD-80 rating, yes indirectly I paid for it, and I'd do it again, but after the demise of C II (at the hands of Keating and co) my rating took me to Europe where I was employable, what is wrong with that?
And if I hadn't done that I wouldn't be in the position I am today.
Who gives you a god given right to demand a rating just because your a jet jockey with "x" no. of hours.
Talk about professionalism there's been "****** all" in Australia since '89, all the professionals left because they were about to get shafted.
I'm right with VB. I don't have a B737 rating and have been asked twice to join them but I still would have to get my own rating, so what! If I decided to join in I'd do it.
Get real guys if you want the job get the rating, anyway it's rebated to you over 2 years. . . <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
I invested in Compass II back in '92 which gave me an MD-80 rating, yes indirectly I paid for it, and I'd do it again, but after the demise of C II (at the hands of Keating and co) my rating took me to Europe where I was employable, what is wrong with that?
And if I hadn't done that I wouldn't be in the position I am today.
Who gives you a god given right to demand a rating just because your a jet jockey with "x" no. of hours.
Talk about professionalism there's been "****** all" in Australia since '89, all the professionals left because they were about to get shafted.
I'm right with VB. I don't have a B737 rating and have been asked twice to join them but I still would have to get my own rating, so what! If I decided to join in I'd do it.
Get real guys if you want the job get the rating, anyway it's rebated to you over 2 years. . . <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
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FarQ2 - you forget, as do most of the 89 slangers that about 850 [now 2100!] professional pilots in Australia worked for the rat and were not part of the dispute despite many trying to drag us in! Qantas bashing is an artform on this forum sometimes!. .And we didn't have to pay for our endorsement!
Oh, Dear.
I think I have some idea of what T-Bone was trying to say about pilot professionalism (until he had to express a personal opinion about VB and it's pilots), but the tone of this thread has certainly degenerating since the first post.........
I wonder if the "Whinge Syndrome" is a compulsory factor in the gene make up of a professional airline pilot?
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
I think I have some idea of what T-Bone was trying to say about pilot professionalism (until he had to express a personal opinion about VB and it's pilots), but the tone of this thread has certainly degenerating since the first post.........
I wonder if the "Whinge Syndrome" is a compulsory factor in the gene make up of a professional airline pilot?
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
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Sincere apologies Tankengine my "dig" was not directed at others than the greedy domestic group. .who exploited an oportunity for personal gain at the expense of others.
As Kaptin M has said in another thread "F#@k Y*&" I'm looking after me first, that certainly is NOT PROFESSIONAL.
As Kaptin M has said in another thread "F#@k Y*&" I'm looking after me first, that certainly is NOT PROFESSIONAL.
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Sorry T-Bone but you are living in a dream world.. .I am sorry you cannot get hired and if someone else pays for their endorsement to secure employent then these are the times we live in and what do you expect them to do. Not pay for it and stay employed within some clapped out GA circus or worse unemployed.
I personally would not pay for the endorsement due the cost and the unpredictability of the present aviation environment. Get over Impulse you don't pay for your jet endorsement unless you decide to leave within 2 years, which is bloody fair enough.
I think you really are trying to have a dig at the VB guys. This industry like any other is full of little pricks shafting each other and having a go at others.
Paying for endorsents sucks. But what choice do you have when some other prick is going to pay for the endorsement instead of you. The brotherly pack you speak of. I don't think so.
Who are the other great Australian Airlines you speak off?
I personally would not pay for the endorsement due the cost and the unpredictability of the present aviation environment. Get over Impulse you don't pay for your jet endorsement unless you decide to leave within 2 years, which is bloody fair enough.
I think you really are trying to have a dig at the VB guys. This industry like any other is full of little pricks shafting each other and having a go at others.
Paying for endorsents sucks. But what choice do you have when some other prick is going to pay for the endorsement instead of you. The brotherly pack you speak of. I don't think so.
Who are the other great Australian Airlines you speak off?
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God, I wish I had never brought up the endorsement thing...it was just an example.
VNE11 seams to be the only one who has caught my drift.
And for all who care I DO NOT have jet time, and am currently employed back in GA.
And BTW the AN regionals were a great place to work
VNE11 seams to be the only one who has caught my drift.
And for all who care I DO NOT have jet time, and am currently employed back in GA.
And BTW the AN regionals were a great place to work
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T-bone it appears you have fallen into the grizzly's den at the Dunnunda Zoo. If you need a rescue just email Woomera we can close the thread and start again.. .Woomera
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
My interpretation of T-Bone's post is that he wishes to see some "mutual respect" shown each other, and some recognition of the "grit, grind" and $$'s it has taken for pilots to achieve their positions. That he considers it unfair for "lesser experienced" pilots to gain an advantage ("queue-jumping") by, for example, buying a 737 rating to get a job with an airline (eg. Virgin) rather than allowing the "natural progression" factor to be the factor.. .Right or wrong, T-Bone?