CyberExam Costs CPL / IREX / ATPL

[Advanced Flight Theory]

We have had many calls from pilots requesting information on the CyberExam Fee Structure. Following is information we received last Friday (01/02/02) from ASL. We were advised by ASL that this information is a draft at present and should be checked on the website when it becomes available.

[quote]Introduction

Assessment Services Pty Limited (ASL) has a contract for the nationwide delivery of Flight Crew licensing examinations for the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA). ASL is responsible for the booking and delivery of the examinations through a network of examination sites, while CASA is responsible for the provisions of the examinations through their CyberExams system.

The fees for the examination service is split into two parts -

1 - CASA Examination fee. .2 - ASL Examination delivery fee

All fees quoted are GST inclusive.

1 CASA Examination Fees

The CASA examination fees are for the CyberExam service provided by CASA via their web-based delivery system. The fees are structured to cover a group of examinations for a Commercial Pilots Licence (CPL) and Airline Transport Pilot Lice (ATPL). Fees for other examinations are for a single exam.

CASA CPL Exam Fees

The fee of $50.00 for the CPL Aeroplane exam or the CPL Helicopter exam covers the entire cost for a set of unpassed subject exams. For a candidate who has not passed any CyberExams CPL exam, the set will consist of 7 different subject exams. When a candidate has used this set, or has elected to abandon it for a new set (eg in order to re-sit a failed subject exam), a new fee of $50.00 fee shall be paid for a new set of these exams. Each set has only one of each of the seven different CPL subject exams. In any set of exams, a particular subject exam may not be substituted for another subject exam. Subject exams already passed will not be provided as part of a new set of exams.

Eg. Candidate pays $50.00 to sit CPL exams for the first time. He/she obtains subject exams A, B, C, D, E, F and G. He/she attempts exams A, B, C and D and passes the first three subject parts, but fails D. He/she can proceed with the remaining three subjects (E, F and G) without payment. Alternatively, the candidate can pay $50.00 for a new set and obtain D, E, F and G. This allows the candidate to resit D.

CASA IREX Exam Fee $65.00

CASA ATPL Exam Fees

The fee of $100.00 for the ATPL Aeroplane exam or the ATPL Helicopter exam covers the entire cost for a set of unpassed subject exams. For a candidate who has not passed any CyberExams ATPL exam, the set will consist of 7 different subject exams. When a candidate has used this set, or has elected to abandon it for a new set (eg in order to re-sit a failed subject exam), a new fee of $100.00 fee shall be paid for a new set of these exams. Each set has only one of each of the seven different ATPL subject exams. In any set of exams, a particular subject exam may not be substituted for another subject exam. Subject exams already passed will not be provided as part of a new set of exams.

Eg. Candidate pays $100.00 to sit ATPL exams for the first time. He/she obtains subject exams A, B, C, D, E, F and G. He/she attempts exams A, B, C and D and passes the first three subject parts, but fails D. He/she can proceed with the remaining three subjects (E, F and G) without payment. Alternatively, the candidate can pay $100.00 for a new set and obtain D, E, F and G. This allows the candidate to resit D.

2 ASL Exam Delivery Fees

The ASL exam delivery fees are charged for each examination subject required. The fee structure is based around the length of the examination subject as this determines the amount of computer time used to deliver the subject.

PPL Aeroplane $99.00 3.50 hours. .PPL Helicopter $99.00 3.50 hours

CPL Human Factors $59.00 1.00 hours. .CPL Aerodynamic (A) $69.00 1.50 hours. .CPL Aerodynamic (H) $69.00 1.50 hours. .CPL Aircraft General Knowledge(A)$59.00 1.00 hours. .CPL Aircraft General Knowledge(H)$59.00 1.00 hours. .CPL Meteorology (A & H) $69.00 1.50 hours. .CPL Flight Rules & Air Law (A) $79.00 2.00 hours. .CPL Flight Rules & Air Law (H) $79.00 2.00 hours. .CPL Navigation (A&H) $79.00 2.00 hours. .CPL Ops, Perf & Flt Plan (A) $89.00 2.50 hours. .CPL Ops, Perf & Flt Plan (H) $89.00 2.50 hours

Instrument Rating IREX $99.00 3.50 hours

ATPL Human Factors $59.00 1.00 hours. .ATPL Navigation (A&H) $69.00 1.50 hours. .ATPL Meteorology (A& H) $69.00 1.50 hours. .ATPL Air Law (A&H) $69.00 1.50 hours. .ATPL Performance & Loading (A) $89.00 2.50 hours. .ATPL Performance & Loading (H)) $89.00 2.50 hours. .ATPL Aerodyn & Arcft Syst (A) $89.00 2.50 hours. .ATPL Aerodyn & Arcft Syst (H) $89.00 2.50 hours. .ATPL Flight Planning (A) $95.00 3.00 hours. .ATPL Flight Planning (H) $95.00 3.00 hours

Booking Examinations

The application process on ASL’s web site will automatically calculate the fees for the examinations that you apply for. Alternatively you can apply for exams using their application form (AUS020) and send it to ASL by fax or mail.

The application form for delivery of the examinations should be available on ASL’s website by 11 February 2002.<hr></blockquote>

Some useful links to receive further information -

ASL's Website commencing 11 February 2002. .<a href="http://www.aslexam.com" target="_blank">ASL's Website</a>

CASA CyberExam Website. .<a href="http://www.casa.gov.au/avreg/fcl_lic/fcl_exam/cyber/index.htm" target="_blank">CASA's CyberExam Website</a>

AFT CyberExam Information. .<a href="http://www.aft.com.au/cyberexams" target="_blank">AFT CyberExam Information</a>

[ 05 February 2002: Message edited by: Advanced Flight Theory ]

[ 05 February 2002: Message edited by: Advanced Flight Theory ]

[ 05 February 2002: Message edited by: Advanced Flight Theory ]</p>

[giddy up]

I may be reading into this the wrong way, but what that says is that not only do i have to pay another $100 to sit ATPL Air Law and Systems, (was expecting to pay that anyhow) but because this time i will probably be doing it on a computer, i have to pay another $158 on top of that!. .Just quietly, thats a frikkin ripoff!. . <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[awetzel]

It is a real ripp off! It is cheaper go in and sit it.

<img src="confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[awetzel]

Does anyone know who will be hosting the cyber exams in the Sydney area?

[X-dash8thrasher]

Crikey ! ,

whats going on here ? $100 booking fee for the ATPL and then $600+ at the exam room door ?

worse still , the CPL , 7 subjects , 7 seperate fees and 3 years to do it all , and how much does it cost now ? .......aha aha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa....

what other ICAO member breaks the CPL into 7 individual subjects then allows 3 years to pass them all ?.

more subjects = more fees ?. .more time to pass all subjects = more forklift drivers flying C172's ?

is this part of the "aviation reform program" that a former AOPA president has been warning us about recently ??

<img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[Big Sky Aviation]

Maybe a stupid question fellas but from what I understand you pay you $100 and get all 7 exams, do you have to attempt them all in the one sitting, or can you say using their example, sit ABCD and then next time sit EFG with no further cost (CASA at least!)???

Streuth, at these rates I'm glad I've only got the ATPL's to go! I feel sorry for anyone having to pay that much for a CPL!!

Cheers. .BSB

[ 06 February 2002: Message edited by: Big Sky Base ]</p>

[TwinNDB]

If it wasn't farkin broken then why go out and fix it. The old system was fine - have three to go and now have to pay bucket loads of money.

Absolute load of crap - how many people are going to continue to pay more and more for a job that doesn't even pay enough to live off until you get to an airline. Add to this the cost of the practical side of flying and aviation in this country will be in serious trouble in a few years time.

Go and do law or medicine instead - i love flying but i'm just glad most of my "stuff" is out of the way now things are getting really expensive.

<img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[Icarus2001]

Twin NDB. . [quote]Go and do law or medicine instead <hr></blockquote>

The point is these professions have an academic hurdle to entry. Aviation, it could be argued also has an academic barrier to entry, however it is set somewhat lower than law & medecine.

Now before the soapboxes come out, just go and look at what it takes to get in to University in these faculties!

The main barrier to entry into aviation is a financial one. If exams cost a couple of thousand dollars for entry, then good. The reason most GA jobs are low paid is because of supply and demand. The level of your remuneration is based on the EASE OF REPLACING YOU, pure and simple. If you are a low time SE driver, you are in a large pool, thus low wages.

If increased exam costs mean a smaller pool of pilots good, this will force up wages.

Another point, "some" airline pilots like to think of themselves as in the same league as doctors, lawyers etc.(see "Captain" thread)when the reality is quite different. To be even a GP these days takes SIX YEARS at Uni.(no insult meant by even a GP). That is before undertaking a specialty area which requires further study.

Put all this in perspective, have a look at UK exam fees, have a look at NZ and USA.

I think I need a lie down...

[Deaf]

Icarus,

"To be even a GP these days takes SIX YEARS at Uni.(no insult meant by even a GP)"

Bit worse than that, that gets you a degree. Next is residency, 1 year, 100hrs pw+ for not much more than the basic wage and then another year GP training.

Somewhat OT but the hours worked by residents (who will see you if you go to hospital) are alarming, Fri AM to Mon AM is common and maybe get some sleep during that time. Makes the worst infringements of CAO 48 seem minor.

On the general subject of the exams, I won't be doing the ATPL but have not found the rest difficult and consider that failure to pass any first up should make you look seriously at your preparation.

[shaablamm]

Hey N, nice to c you keeping in touch with the industry, you're a champion, master of the ATP. Too good perhaps. Maybe you could just reduce the pass percentage until the industry can catch up a little. . .Cheers mate, glad I'm through thanks to you.

[DESCEND WHEN READY]

Once again my faith in the world we live in has stood me up. Everything revolves around money and I am fed up with it. If things weren't so bad with bank fees, house fees, insurance fees, pet fees, fishing fees and no doubt a bog fee I, like alot of people are becoming very synical about the way things are heading. I can not watch a commercial on tv without seeing through the hair gel or silicone which is used to hook those who are stupid enough to fall for products/housing plans/'once in a lifetime offer' only to realise there stupidity just before appearing on A Current Affair.

I can not understand the mentality of wrecking a perfectly good/fair system with the CASA exams and it seems obvious that money hungry sloths have seen the opportunity to scam money out of those people, young pilots as the case is now, so that they can sit back and watch those busting their guts in GA and working to realise their ambitions get stuffed at every corner possible. I speak for alot of people who save all their money to further themselves only to have additional unwarranted FEES thrown at them.

I will now get of the soapbox.

Good luck to everyone out there currently swearing and hitting things after finding another revenue raising stunt in the way.

[cath]

I agree the cost is rather steep (especially because of the seven ATPL's i still need to do...) but not particularly steep compared to university. HECS fees, union fees, textbooks, beer (oops) etc all add up to mean that law or medicine is still FAR more expensive than aviation (sorry twinndb) and the recompense at first is fairly shabby. As stated earlier, it is now a comparable rate with other countries worldwide, especially if you factor our flagging currency prices...i would still rather do it here. Although i cant quite see how they can justify the cost, i mean the things cant be that expensive to prepare!!

[druglord]

Nathan,. .Can't sing your praises enough! I've never had such a professional, well-taught course in my life. I'd recommend to all potential ATPL students.. . I'll quit there lest this thread gets closed for what may look like advertising.

[TwinNDB]

LET ME CLARIFY:

University may in some cases be more expensive to attend but on the whole I would put it at an average with flying. No problems so far, but when you take into account being able to put associated costs onto the Governments ledger in the form of HECS, the ability to get forms of AUSTUDY and the such, then to many people university is a far better option. You can imagine the outcry if the Government suddenly axed the HECS scheme and made all degree's to be paid upfront and then slap everyone with two seperate fees to sit exams at the end of the year!!

I'm not trying to say that everything in life is perfect, but if you were able to have Government run schools or academy's put it all on a system like HECS then you may find less complaints. We'd pay for it all but not upfront, which is what hits most people.

Perhaps people missed the point.

Twin

[bboy]

I nearly fell of the chair when I read this.

Where these people get off charging an extra,say 600% for a set of exams, and hope to get away with it. . .Note scanty reference to the ASL costs from CASA prior to recently, otherwise i would have sat a few more this month, along with probably a few thousand others.. .Prevoius posts suggest that this is in line with HECS Uni etc: These exams have been running for years. The Poor exam lady today is out of a job, and now we are expected to pay some spare prick over $50.00 an hour to punch a password ,hit connect and sit there.. .This is a pure ripoff and should not be tolerated. Similar to when Airservices brought out the Phoneaway thing. A call to briefing voice was to cost $2.20.Did'nt that last long after everyone kicked up a stink.. .I could maybe be forced to pay $20 or so, but $95. for someone to be making money out of exams IN ADDITION to the CASA fees is outright outrageous.. .Maybe you all should send CASA a little note, and tell them what you think. If people simply do not put up with this crap being thrown at them, maybe they may listen. mailto:[email protected]

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

The PPL cyberexams are good, in that you get the results quickly, but bad in that you have to wait a week for a re-sit, which can cause havoc for people with limited time to finish the course, who may have only missed it by a couple of marks.

With these ASL mark ups, you could charge the PPL exam at $183.00. Plus the opportunity cost for the CFI not flying for four hours while it is going on, say another $280.00. Total $463.00. Still, it would then be a matter of weeks rather than years before the new computer equipment we had to buy paid for itself...

Can we buy shares in ASL? Sounds like money for old rope to me.. . <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[cath]

I wrote an email to CASA cyberexams but it was returned undeliverable. Oh well.

Now twinndb i agree that the costs of flying are high, but so are the rewards (eventually). The government will only subsidise learning if it needs more people qualified in a certain area. As there are so many people willing to pay up front to learn to fly, and this is supplying plenty of pilots, the government has no need to subsidise training. If people could take HECS type loans, imagine what the competition for jobs would be like then....it's hard enough for us beginners to start with!! Once again our love of flying suckers us into not only paying for our training but also taking cr*ppy underpaid GA jobs!!

[SuperSonicCruizer]

CFI I think they make you wait a week before the next sitting so you don't remember all the answers to the questoins

I read the cyber exam ATPL sitting rules and it seems that you have to pay $100 to resit 7 subjects. So if you keep failing one of them then you keep having to pay $100 till you pass.

Where previously it was $100 to sit all 7 or one 7 times or whatever.

Boy am I glad I got all my ATPL's done just before this mess!