Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Dunnunda, Godzone and the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Ansett showdown as losses mount and time runs out

Wikiposts
Search
Dunnunda, Godzone and the Pacific An independent family of forums covering all aspects of the Australian/NZ aviation scene.

Ansett showdown as losses mount and time runs out

 
Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 5th Feb 2002, 19:38
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Townsville,Nth Queensland
Posts: 2,717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Post Ansett showdown as losses mount and time runs out

Wed "Sydney Morning Herald"

Ansett showdown as losses mount and time runs out

By Darren Goodsir, Transport Writer

Ansett's administrators are seeking judicial approval today to shield them against potential claims from creditors increasingly concerned at the airline's losses of $6 million a week.

The decision, which may be given this afternoon, should resolve doubts as to whether the administrators, Mark Mentha and Mark Korda, will continue to hold out for the Tesna syndicate to finalise the transfer of the airline's major operations, now delayed by more than a week.

Despite Tesna's principals, Solomon Lew and Lindsay Fox, visiting staff at Sydney and Melbourne yesterday to reaffirm their support, the court's ruling may prove decisive in persuading the administrators to bring forward their 30-day deadline for the deal to be clinched.

If the Federal Court does not give the administrators such protection, it will increase the potential for legal claims from creditors worried about decreasing returns.

The administrators have agreed to absorb the $1-million-a-day losses to run the airline's expanded eight-route network to five cities - only because they believe the sale is still likely.

. .But they revealed to the court they merely have an interim agreement with Tesna, and are reviewing the situation on a week-to-week basis.

The ACTU, representing the biggest single group of creditors, who approved the sale last month despite risks of it foundering, has indicated it wishes to continue its support.

The administrators' counsel, Simon Whelan, QC - who is seeking the declaration that would safeguard accounting firm Andersen from potential losses - agreed with Justice Alan Goldberg in the Federal Court on Monday "that because of the length of the time and what is involved, the administrators are getting nervous".

"It is certainly a big factor that they are mindful of the enormous personal responsibility which they bear," Mr Whelan told the court.

Last night, an affidavit to support the administrators' application had not been filed, even though the hearing is due to take place at 2.30pm.

Apart from their dispute with the Sydney Airports Corporation and the administrators over the assignment of terminal leases there are many other legal and licensing contracts yet to be resolved.

News last week that Tesna had made inquiries with airlines other than United to buy second-hand planes, rather than new aircraft, and sharemarket rumours that the key Tesna backers David Bonderman and Bill Franke had withdrawn their support, have increased doubts over the deal's viability.

The Tesna syndicate has delayed an announcement on frequent flyer plans.

It is understood the Tesna syndicate has still not provided details of the company that intends to operate the terminal leases. But an agreement gives Ansett the right to exclude airlines, such as Virgin Blue and Qantas - but encourages it to let other airlines, such as regional operators, fly to spare gates.
Wirraway is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2002, 04:50
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: LA, Cal, USA
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Post

How much of this article was fed to the SMH from other sources trying to prevent AN from getting up?

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
strobes_on is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2002, 05:55
  #3 (permalink)  

Don Quixote Impersonator
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Australia
Age: 77
Posts: 3,403
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Post

strobes on

That comment is unbecoming of your previously well presented posts.

The question is one that has most of the business world baffled.. .It goes against every principle and rule of administration in the obligation to protect the remaining assets of the company under administration and trading whilst insolvent would put anyone else in gaol.. .Why and if, there is a different rule for these guys is what the Court is going to be asked.

[quote] The administrators have agreed to absorb the $1-million-a-day losses to run the airline's expanded eight-route network to five cities - only because they believe the sale is still likely.

. .But they revealed to the court they merely have an interim agreement with Tesna, and are reviewing the situation on a week-to-week basis.

<hr></blockquote>

Doesn't sound like a very safe position for the creditors to me.
gaunty is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2002, 06:17
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: LA, Cal, USA
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Post

Gaunty

Some examples of the inconsistencies in this article:

"..... and sharemarket rumours that the key Tesna backers David Bonderman and Bill Franke had withdrawn their support, have increased doubts over the deal's viability."......

are untrue.

"...It is understood the Tesna syndicate has still not provided details of the company that intends to operate the terminal leases. "

Clearly opinion on the journo's part.

"...Apart from their dispute with the Sydney Airports Corporation and the administrators over the assignment of terminal leases there are many other legal and licensing contracts yet to be resolved."

I hardly think Tesna are likely to confide in Mr. Goodsir regarding the state of negotiations.

Now who in the market could be suggesting that Bonderman and Franke have withdrawn? I wonder.

Could it be that their are some rats at work here. <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
strobes_on is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2002, 06:21
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Post

To balance the usual negative posters. From The Australian, Feb. 6.

<a href="http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,3723367%255E2702,00.html" target="_blank">www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,3723367%255E2702,00.html</a>
Okie is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2002, 06:30
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Brighton le sands
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Post

$6M a week losses

was Ansett losing this amount of money ie..approx $1M a day when they were in "full scale operation"....14000 employees and all routes active ??

does this mean that it is still costing the same to operate the scaled back route and frequency structure as it did before sept 14 ?

or is this all just "manufactured" information cunningly passed on to the print media to be fed to Joe Bloggs on the street ?

Hmm...I wonder..
X-dash8thrasher is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2002, 06:32
  #7 (permalink)  
bgt
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The Sandpit
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thumbs up

Strobes on dont know where you get your info ,but you have just hit the nail fair on the head. Well done...! <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
bgt is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2002, 06:37
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Sydney,NSW, Australia
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Arrow

"The administrators have agreed to absorb the $1-million-a-day losses to run the airline's expanded eight-route network to five cities - only because they believe the sale is still likely"

Does this mean that the Administrators are going to pay this out of there huge fee for Administrating !!!!!!!! I think not. So who's to pay ? The good old tax payer will no doubt help out again
airbornespanner2 is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2002, 06:54
  #9 (permalink)  

Don Quixote Impersonator
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Australia
Age: 77
Posts: 3,403
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Post

Strobes

Fair comment.

But Lindsay would say that wouldn't he. I just hear that Jerry McGuires clients phrase, ringing. "Show me the money".

I personally don't have any issue as to whether they do or do not get up, just seen it all before, with the "staff" usually having to adopt the BOHICA position. . .Remember I come from WA where we have perfected the art of turning BS into diamonds long enough to sell them and get the money out before they turn back into BS again.

The odour of dead fish is certainly in the air but whether it is coming from the media or FLEWsett is yet to be determined. . .Personally, I reckon we are seeing the exit strategy in full cry with the staff and public being prepared by the Administrators and FLEW, the same that way George Dubya and his predessors do, for bad news that they can then put on whoever they wish, but themselves.

Am I getting too old and cynical, probably. But then, having seen some "Masters of the Universe" in action up close and personal I have learned to trust my instincts, public memory is all too short and the lessons of history rarely remembered if indeed they were ever learned. Masters of the Universe rely on this.
gaunty is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2002, 06:58
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Queensland
Posts: 2,422
Received 8 Likes on 4 Posts
Cool

"Doesn't sound like a very safe position for the creditors to me."

Nor the Administrators, Gaunty, unless there is one law for Ansett/Andersons and another for the rest of Corporate Australia! <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
Torres is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2002, 07:25
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: LA, Cal, USA
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thumbs down

What I am saying here is that the media is a very powerful tool to those uninitiated in the way they can influence the 'hoi polloi'.

Reading Goodsir's article without any background knowledge would draw a reader to the false conclusions reached in this and other posts.

As Okie has highlighted above, have a look at the Australian article for the opposite position and contradiction of the author's comments.

Readers of this forum may also legitimately ask about the more sinister aspects of the government's role in the Australian Aviation industry over the last 12 months.

Just how separate is the function of government from the commercial influences of large Australian aviation companies. The term 'lobbyist' applied in this context takes on a totally new meaning.

Is Goodsir's article the result of some indirect lobbying and maybe the odd telephone call from the 'right' source?

The personalities at work here are extremely powerful and reach into the inner sanctum of cabinet.

Did anyone see the interview when Anderson was asked about the appointment of Dick Smith? He almost gave the game away with the not so hidden anger on his face.

Will we ever know what government decisions are made on the basis of undue commercial influence rather than the real needs of the industry as a whole.

Not happy Jan.. . <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
strobes_on is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2002, 07:31
  #12 (permalink)  

Evertonian
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: #3117# Ppruner of the Year Nominee 2005
Posts: 12,495
Received 105 Likes on 59 Posts
Angry

Good grief! Justice "and what about my little mates" Goldberg is presiding?? <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

Lets cut to the quick here. I want the deal to go through 'coz I'm out on the street if it doesn't now, but. Why are Andersens doing this now? Wouldn't determining legal action like this be done prior to assuming control? Why are they suddenly so worried as to get a decision now?

At the end of the day, we might as well let them get the protection because after Enron, if the AN deal falls through, there'll be no Andersens left to claim against! <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

At least chinless & shorty will have had their 15 minutes of fame.
Buster Hyman is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2002, 08:49
  #13 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Townsville,Nth Queensland
Posts: 2,717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Post

AAP

Ansett creditors could turn on administration

Ansett administrators may reconsider their decision to operate the airline at a $6 million a week loss if the Federal Court refuses to support the arrangement.

The costly decision to keep Ansett flying was announced last week after it was revealed the much-vaunted sale to the Tesna syndicate had been delayed.

Administrators agreed to honour Tesna's flying schedule for 30 days or risk losing the sale altogether.

But a Federal Court hearing this week was told there was still no guarantee the sale would come off.

If the sale failed, and without Federal Court support, administrators could find themselves the subject of legal action by disgruntled creditors who, with "the benefit of hindsight", could accuse them of failing in their duty to maximise creditors' returns.

In an affidavit placed before the Federal Court this week, administrator Mark Korda said there were "serious concerns" that third parties, who were causing the delay in the finalising of the deal, could take advantage of the airline's commercial predicament and derail the sale.

"Presently we believe that by continuing to trade we are complying ... to keep as much of the Ansett business in existence and maximise return to creditors," Mr Korda said.

"However in doing so we may be jeopardising the return to creditors if the sale does not complete."

If the Tesna sale fell through administrators could be accused of losing creditors more than $24 million.

The decision will be handed down at 2.30pm (AEDT).

Meanwhile Ansett staff have been reassured the sale was back on track.

In morale-boosting pep-talks at Sydney and Melbourne airports, Tesna co-owner Lindsay Fox and administrator Mark Mentha with former ACTU secretary Bill Kelty told Ansett employees the main hurdle to the sale deal, the signing of the Sydney airport lease, was expected to be overcome with a deal likely to be signed within the fortnight.

Mr Fox put paid to rumours United States backers David Bonderman and Bill Franke from Air Partners were considering pulling out of the Tesna syndicate.

Other third party issues involving aircraft and information technology leases were also being addressed, he said.

. . İAAP 2002
Wirraway is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2002, 09:52
  #14 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Townsville,Nth Queensland
Posts: 2,717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Post

Further News ABC News Net:

Posted: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 16:35 AEDT

1,000 Ansett workers may be made redundant under Tesna consortium

Ansett administrators have revealed up to 1,000 workers could be made redundant when the airline is sold to the Tesna consortium.

Ansett administrators are seeking a sanction in the Federal Court to keep the airline operating until its sale is finalised at the end of the month.

The sale process has been delayed by almost 30 days.

During the hearing, concerns were raised about expected job losses.

Ansett administrator Mark Korda admitted to the court that about 1,000 employees are likely to be made redundant, but there would be sufficient funds in the order of $61 million to meet their entitlements.

Mr Korda says another $30 million would be made available if a further 500 jobs were lost.

He says the airline is facing losses of up to $6 million a week and admits those losses could be greater over the next month.
Wirraway is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2002, 10:29
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Post

The projected loss of $ 6m a week is made up of two components (i) the loss on flying operations and, (ii) a multi million dollar sum for the computer operations charge each week. . .Heard the ABC Radio News report at 1700 and it appears that losses may be more than $ 6m a week, and that the 1000 to go on settlement date could be higher . Are these 1000 job losses to pay for the $ 6m a week interim loss till handover to Fox/Lew ? Every day the Administrators let a little more info out of the bag, what will be tomorrows shock ? As Sir Humphrey would say " Oh but what a tangled web we weave." Again very sad for the dedicated people who have been through hell since 12/09. May this sad saga not drag on much longer, lets have an end to it one way or other so people can get on with their lives.
kuldalai is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2002, 10:39
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Post

"lets have an end to it one way or other so people can get on with their lives."

probably the most sensible thing said to date.
Arctaurus is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2002, 19:00
  #17 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Townsville,Nth Queensland
Posts: 2,717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Post

Thurs "Melbourne Age"

Airport offers Tesna a push

By LEONIE WOOD. .Thursday 7 February 2002

Sydney Airport Corporation Ltd has offered to assign the lease over Ansett's domestic terminal at Mascot to the airline's new owners, Tesna, in what it claims is an effort to speed up completion of the $514 million deal.

SACL, however, believes its offer, apparently made in a phone call to Ansett administrator Mark Korda on Tuesday evening, was rejected "out of hand".

In a letter from SACL to Mr Korda, obtained by The Age, SACL claimed it would put aside concerns about Tesna's proposal to deliver the lease to its subsidiary, Tesna Terminals Pty Ltd, for now and deal with them after settlement.

It also offered to defer demands for documentation about unions taking a second-ranking charge over the lease to secure about $200 million of outstanding entitlements.

"May we remind you that this is the third time we have made an offer to you in order to expedite this transaction and get Tesna flying," the letter said.

SACL has reacted angrily this week to claims that it was responsible for delays in finalising the Ansett sale, and bristled yesterday at suggestions that it may have a vested interest in liquidating Ansett.

In an affidavit filed in Federal Court proceedings yesterday, Mr Korda noted that SACL had the right to buy back the terminal lease for "market valuation" if the sale collapsed and Ansett were liquidated.

"The market value will probably be significantly lower if an airline does not operate from the Sydney DTL (domestic terminal lease)," Mr Korda told the court.

Ansett spent about $280 million on improvements at the terminal.

But under cross-examination by Will Houghton, QC, for SACL, Mr Korda said that if the lease reverted to SACL, it would be expected to pay "fair market value".

Mr Korda's affidavit noted that before the administration began on September 12, Ansett had negotiated, but not executed, a deal to simplify the terminal lease.

Mr Korda said he set up a group of accountants and lawyers in November who were dedicated to finalising the Sydney terminal lease, although he noted difficulties had emerged because the lease was "extremely complicated".

"The discussions with SACL are progressing and there now appear to be only a few issues that remain outstanding, but they are important issues," Mr Korda said.

"I believe that once the SACL assignment is resolved, it will lead to the resolution of all other assignments of key domestic terminal leases to Tesna."

While Tesna, the administrators and SACL have refused to discuss their negotiations, it is believed SACL last week threatened Tesna with claims that it potentially would breach the Trade Practices Act if it refused to allow other airlines to use its terminal.

Sources claim Tesna is trying to reduce the terms of the original deal and lay off all liabilities attached to the lease.
Wirraway is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2002, 20:58
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: YMML
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Question

From above:. . [quote] In a letter from SACL to Mr Korda, obtained by The Age, SACL claimed it would put aside concerns about Tesna's proposal to deliver the lease to its subsidiary, Tesna Terminals Pty Ltd, for now and deal with them after settlement <hr></blockquote>. .How an earth can SACL expect to deal with all its concerns re: TESNA AFTER settlement? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
aiming point is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2002, 03:19
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Post

Federal Treasurer Peter Costello told Jon Faine on ABC Local radio in Melbourne this morning that Federal Government has no intention of getting involved in lease of Sydney airport terminal to Tesna . He feels it is up to Sydney Airport and Tesna to sort out their commercial arrangements.
kuldalai is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2002, 03:30
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thumbs down

There are voluminous posts with various press articles on the sale of Ansett.

Making a decision about which way this is all going based purely on what the press say is like borrowing money from a bank without checking out other lender's rates.

In this instance, I do not believe that SACL or TESNA would release any definitive information on the progress of tying up airport leases until the deal is done. Fox has never negotiated in public and is not about to start now.

This is frustrating the press, who have resorted to half truths and supposition to their readership.

It will only be announced as a "done" deal when FLEW have everything together.
Arctaurus is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.