Ansett showdown as losses mount and time runs out
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: US
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Arctaurus
Mark Mentha has just described the situation this morning on ABC radio as very positive with an imminent agreement with SACL.
He also said that the Frequent Flyer program will be announced in the next few days.
Fox and Lew were still totally committed to the sale and that it should be signed off within 14 days.
He also described the 3000 jobs as an initial figure, with increases as the operation ramps up.
Responding to Jon Faine's question regarding the publicised 4000 jobs, he indicated that it was always going to be a "movable feast" given the changing aircraft delivery time scale.
On the basis of these comments from Mentha, it does seem likely that the deal will proceed now.
Mark Mentha has just described the situation this morning on ABC radio as very positive with an imminent agreement with SACL.
He also said that the Frequent Flyer program will be announced in the next few days.
Fox and Lew were still totally committed to the sale and that it should be signed off within 14 days.
He also described the 3000 jobs as an initial figure, with increases as the operation ramps up.
Responding to Jon Faine's question regarding the publicised 4000 jobs, he indicated that it was always going to be a "movable feast" given the changing aircraft delivery time scale.
On the basis of these comments from Mentha, it does seem likely that the deal will proceed now.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Brisbane, Aust
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The deal with Virgin/Lang is looking better and better as this whole saga continues. Old planes,fewer staff, what next. All of FLEWs promises are dying a slow death. Maybe the Marks would have been better off at least considering the VB offer for the remaining staff's sake?
[ 07 February 2002: Message edited by: eisle s ]</p>
[ 07 February 2002: Message edited by: eisle s ]</p>
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ansett 'worse off now': unions. . . .From AAP. .07feb02
ANSETT'S operations were worse off now compared to when administrators took over last September, unions have said.
ACTU counsel Michael Beach told the Federal Court today Ansett had operated at a loss of about $4 million in the three months after September 29 when administrators returned the airline to the air.
"Now in February alone (the estimate is) $24 million. That's quite a different position," Mr Beach told the court.
He said the revamped airline's estimated staff numbers had plummeted while operational losses during the interim period had escalated to an estimated $6 million a week.
Under such conditions there were fears employees would miss out, he said.
Ansett administrators are calling on the Federal Court to sanction their decision to trade at a loss while would-be owners Tesna finalised sale documents.
The Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC) opposed the application today, saying it was not in the court's jurisdiction to comment on commercial decisions.
Ansett had operated at a loss since administrators took over operations on September 29, but had only requested court support now that there was a threat the sale may fall through, ASIC barrister Michael Sifris said.
Creditors approved the administrators' decision to trade at a loss when they voted on the Tesna sale at a meeting last week.
But the situation had changed again since then, unions warned the court.
Yesterday, it was revealed the new airline had reduced estimated staff numbers by 25 per cent, from 4,000 to 3,000.
"If we drop down to 2,500 employees and there's a (trading) loss of more than $24 million over February, there may not be enough money to pay employees' entitlements," Mr Beach said.
He called on the Federal Court to closely monitor the administrator's decision, and sanction continued operations until February 15, before reassessing the situation.
The hearing continues this afternoon.
AAP
ANSETT'S operations were worse off now compared to when administrators took over last September, unions have said.
ACTU counsel Michael Beach told the Federal Court today Ansett had operated at a loss of about $4 million in the three months after September 29 when administrators returned the airline to the air.
"Now in February alone (the estimate is) $24 million. That's quite a different position," Mr Beach told the court.
He said the revamped airline's estimated staff numbers had plummeted while operational losses during the interim period had escalated to an estimated $6 million a week.
Under such conditions there were fears employees would miss out, he said.
Ansett administrators are calling on the Federal Court to sanction their decision to trade at a loss while would-be owners Tesna finalised sale documents.
The Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC) opposed the application today, saying it was not in the court's jurisdiction to comment on commercial decisions.
Ansett had operated at a loss since administrators took over operations on September 29, but had only requested court support now that there was a threat the sale may fall through, ASIC barrister Michael Sifris said.
Creditors approved the administrators' decision to trade at a loss when they voted on the Tesna sale at a meeting last week.
But the situation had changed again since then, unions warned the court.
Yesterday, it was revealed the new airline had reduced estimated staff numbers by 25 per cent, from 4,000 to 3,000.
"If we drop down to 2,500 employees and there's a (trading) loss of more than $24 million over February, there may not be enough money to pay employees' entitlements," Mr Beach said.
He called on the Federal Court to closely monitor the administrator's decision, and sanction continued operations until February 15, before reassessing the situation.
The hearing continues this afternoon.
AAP
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: US
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank god this is just a rumour forum. If what the press and others are saying was totally true, Ansett should not be here.
Somehow, I think the truth lies elswhere.
What will all the critics say if TESNA does get up. Probably not much.
Somehow, I think the truth lies elswhere.
What will all the critics say if TESNA does get up. Probably not much.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Townsville,Nth Queensland
Posts: 2,717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Court ruling now expected late Monday or. .early Tuesday next week,AN staff memo issued. .today:
AN Update . .A news report for Ansett employees . .AN Update 022 . .7 February 2002 . .AN UPDATE FROM JAMES HOGAN CEO:
It seems timely to provide all employees with another update on the progress of the sale, a process I can assure you the principals of Tesna Holdings Pty Ltd are determined to complete as soon as possible. . .Tesna - Solomon Lew, Lindsay Fox, David Bonderman and Bill Franke - remain as committed as ever to this aim, we are making strong forward progress and expect to reach a sale settlement well before the end of the 30-day extension granted for the sale completion date. . .Lindsay Fox told some of you in addresses to staff this week that only three significant issues were to be finalised in order to complete the sale. The emphasis here should be on the word "finalised". We have not to date reached any impasses on the road to finalising what all must understand is an incredibly complex transaction. We are making strong progress on: . .finalising the transfer of airport leases to Tesna, . .finalising leasing arrangements for existing Ansett aircraft pending delivery of our brand new aircraft (which are now coming directly from Airbus Industrie, configured to our specifications) . .finalising licensing for a number of information technology services.
I would also like to say how pleased I am to see the attitude of many staff who are unconcerned at the many speculative media reports circulating us at present. . .It is important for all to understand that we are, as a group, extremely newsworthy. However, we will complete this deal and together create a great airline. . .The combination of our major investors, our Administrators 'Andersens', our high profile brand and our yet to be revealed commercial plans are of significant news interest to many stakeholders, and hence to many members of the media. Nevertheless we do not feel compelled to reveal details regarding the investor's activities nor our future commercial and resourcing plans, at this stage. . .I am pleased to see so many of you disregarding the speculation and at the same time are forging ahead on the operations and customer service projects which are progressing so well. . .Obviously we are all focused completing the deal and to delivering Australian air travellers an unmatched standard of in-flight service. In the meantime you should all take pride in the fact that your continued outstanding service augurs extremely well for our competitive future moving forward.
James Hogan
AN Update . .A news report for Ansett employees . .AN Update 022 . .7 February 2002 . .AN UPDATE FROM JAMES HOGAN CEO:
It seems timely to provide all employees with another update on the progress of the sale, a process I can assure you the principals of Tesna Holdings Pty Ltd are determined to complete as soon as possible. . .Tesna - Solomon Lew, Lindsay Fox, David Bonderman and Bill Franke - remain as committed as ever to this aim, we are making strong forward progress and expect to reach a sale settlement well before the end of the 30-day extension granted for the sale completion date. . .Lindsay Fox told some of you in addresses to staff this week that only three significant issues were to be finalised in order to complete the sale. The emphasis here should be on the word "finalised". We have not to date reached any impasses on the road to finalising what all must understand is an incredibly complex transaction. We are making strong progress on: . .finalising the transfer of airport leases to Tesna, . .finalising leasing arrangements for existing Ansett aircraft pending delivery of our brand new aircraft (which are now coming directly from Airbus Industrie, configured to our specifications) . .finalising licensing for a number of information technology services.
I would also like to say how pleased I am to see the attitude of many staff who are unconcerned at the many speculative media reports circulating us at present. . .It is important for all to understand that we are, as a group, extremely newsworthy. However, we will complete this deal and together create a great airline. . .The combination of our major investors, our Administrators 'Andersens', our high profile brand and our yet to be revealed commercial plans are of significant news interest to many stakeholders, and hence to many members of the media. Nevertheless we do not feel compelled to reveal details regarding the investor's activities nor our future commercial and resourcing plans, at this stage. . .I am pleased to see so many of you disregarding the speculation and at the same time are forging ahead on the operations and customer service projects which are progressing so well. . .Obviously we are all focused completing the deal and to delivering Australian air travellers an unmatched standard of in-flight service. In the meantime you should all take pride in the fact that your continued outstanding service augurs extremely well for our competitive future moving forward.
James Hogan
CASA is prohibited from issuing an AOC to ‘Tesna’, unless CASA is satisfied that Tesna has among other things “a sufficient number of suitably qualified and competent employees to conduct or carry out the AOC operations safely”. (see section 28 of the CAAct; bolding added)
How can CASA have already reached the requisite satisfaction in relation to that criterion, when ‘Tesna’ is yet to decide how many people it can and will employ?
And keep a close eye on those corporate peas and thimbles folks: the ‘Tesna’ that wants to be assigned the SACL terminal leases is not the ‘Tesna’ that CASA’s already decided is going to get an AOC.
Statorblade: I think you’ll find that at least the reports of what is being said in the court are very accurate. By the way, did you intend the exquisite ambiguity in your oxymoron: the truth lies elsewhere?
How can CASA have already reached the requisite satisfaction in relation to that criterion, when ‘Tesna’ is yet to decide how many people it can and will employ?
And keep a close eye on those corporate peas and thimbles folks: the ‘Tesna’ that wants to be assigned the SACL terminal leases is not the ‘Tesna’ that CASA’s already decided is going to get an AOC.
Statorblade: I think you’ll find that at least the reports of what is being said in the court are very accurate. By the way, did you intend the exquisite ambiguity in your oxymoron: the truth lies elsewhere?
Evertonian
[quote] I would also like to say how pleased I am to see the attitude of many staff who are unconcerned at the many speculative media reports circulating us at present. . . <hr></blockquote>
Dear Jim.
As I can't reply to the AN Update, I shall use Pprune. Many thanks for your platitudes with regard to my attitude. Unfortunately, this is not the case. For the last four months, the information vacuum that has come from AN management (yourself excluded) has had many people beating their FARKIN head against a FARKIN brick wall. The only news we get that has any substance is from the media, & whilst we know it's tripe, we remain glued to our sets because the BULLSHlT AN updates are nothing in comparison.
Spare a thought for those that could not find a way out of their despair and are no longer with us. This is not a case of bugga the media, were in it together, it's a matter of survival and a healthier flow of counter propagander would be most welcome.
Regards, Buster. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
Dear Jim.
As I can't reply to the AN Update, I shall use Pprune. Many thanks for your platitudes with regard to my attitude. Unfortunately, this is not the case. For the last four months, the information vacuum that has come from AN management (yourself excluded) has had many people beating their FARKIN head against a FARKIN brick wall. The only news we get that has any substance is from the media, & whilst we know it's tripe, we remain glued to our sets because the BULLSHlT AN updates are nothing in comparison.
Spare a thought for those that could not find a way out of their despair and are no longer with us. This is not a case of bugga the media, were in it together, it's a matter of survival and a healthier flow of counter propagander would be most welcome.
Regards, Buster. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Townsville,Nth Queensland
Posts: 2,717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fri "Sydney Morning Herald"
Last-ditch mission to save Ansett
By Darren Goodsir
Ansett's prospective owners, Solomon Lew and Lindsay Fox, are in Europe on a last-ditch mission to lock in key investors, secure aircraft and finalise a deal with the Star Alliance network of carriers.
Despite recurring doubts about the deal's likelihood - and concerns over the shedding of 1000 further jobs - the Tesna syndicate's trip is seen as a big boost to its survival chances.
"It is the final act in overcoming nearly six months of uncertainty," said a source close to the $3.6 billion deal. "Of course, there are nerves, but it is too much to say this deal is unravelling.
"It is just in the last stages of being completed."
It is understood Mr Fox and Mr Lew, who assured staff on Tuesday that the deal would be completed by February 17, are meeting with Airbus executives about securing 29 A320 planes, after talks broke down with United to gain some of its surplus new fleet.
. .They are also updating Star Alliance, which represents 14 airlines, on their frequent flyer program for Global Rewards members who together lost 70 billion points.
Additionally, they are holding talks with the Air Partners syndicate, whose principals David Bonderman and Bill Franke have pledged support to Tesna's bid to resume full-service flights to 11 cities.
Air Partners's other investment vehicle, Texas Pacific, is believed to be close to buying Ansett's former caterers, Gate Gourmet, .
Last night, the talks between the Sydney Airports Corporation and Ansett's administrators - which appeared irretrievable on Tuesday - had again improved and a deal was again being talked up by both camps.
A spokesman for the corporation said: "We have had productive talks, which leads us to believe that some of the oustanding issues should be resolved shortly."
Ending the dispute in assigning Ansett's Sydney terminal lease should lead to more deals with the other domestic terminals.
"Once the Sydney Airport is done, the rest should fall into place relatively smoothly," the source said.
Ansett's administrators, Mark Mentha and Mark Korda, spent much of yesterday reassuring wary industry analysts that the deal was still on track, despite admitting in the Federal Court that they are nervous about losses of $1 million a day and the prospect of future legal claims.
Their attempt to get Justice Alan Goldberg's approval to shield them from litigation from creditors continued yesterday.
Counsel for the Australian Securities and Investments Commission and the ACTU, the largest creditor, have opposed the administrators' application.
ASIC's barrister, Michael Sifris, SC, said it was not the judge's role to sanction the administrators' conduct in continuing to absorb losses - while the ACTU's counsel, Jonathan Beach, QC, believes continuing operations should only be sanctioned until February 15. The administrators want to keep going until the end of the month.
A decision has been reserved until early next week.
Meanwhile, the Federal Opposition urged the Prime Minister to intervene and bring the parties together to save jobs and preserve aviation competition.
But the Treasurer, Peter Costello, said the matter was purely commercial and enough support had already been given to the airline.
"It would be best for everyone concerned if the deal goes ahead," he said.
"I hope the private sector consortium can put some more money in and operate a good airline."
Last-ditch mission to save Ansett
By Darren Goodsir
Ansett's prospective owners, Solomon Lew and Lindsay Fox, are in Europe on a last-ditch mission to lock in key investors, secure aircraft and finalise a deal with the Star Alliance network of carriers.
Despite recurring doubts about the deal's likelihood - and concerns over the shedding of 1000 further jobs - the Tesna syndicate's trip is seen as a big boost to its survival chances.
"It is the final act in overcoming nearly six months of uncertainty," said a source close to the $3.6 billion deal. "Of course, there are nerves, but it is too much to say this deal is unravelling.
"It is just in the last stages of being completed."
It is understood Mr Fox and Mr Lew, who assured staff on Tuesday that the deal would be completed by February 17, are meeting with Airbus executives about securing 29 A320 planes, after talks broke down with United to gain some of its surplus new fleet.
. .They are also updating Star Alliance, which represents 14 airlines, on their frequent flyer program for Global Rewards members who together lost 70 billion points.
Additionally, they are holding talks with the Air Partners syndicate, whose principals David Bonderman and Bill Franke have pledged support to Tesna's bid to resume full-service flights to 11 cities.
Air Partners's other investment vehicle, Texas Pacific, is believed to be close to buying Ansett's former caterers, Gate Gourmet, .
Last night, the talks between the Sydney Airports Corporation and Ansett's administrators - which appeared irretrievable on Tuesday - had again improved and a deal was again being talked up by both camps.
A spokesman for the corporation said: "We have had productive talks, which leads us to believe that some of the oustanding issues should be resolved shortly."
Ending the dispute in assigning Ansett's Sydney terminal lease should lead to more deals with the other domestic terminals.
"Once the Sydney Airport is done, the rest should fall into place relatively smoothly," the source said.
Ansett's administrators, Mark Mentha and Mark Korda, spent much of yesterday reassuring wary industry analysts that the deal was still on track, despite admitting in the Federal Court that they are nervous about losses of $1 million a day and the prospect of future legal claims.
Their attempt to get Justice Alan Goldberg's approval to shield them from litigation from creditors continued yesterday.
Counsel for the Australian Securities and Investments Commission and the ACTU, the largest creditor, have opposed the administrators' application.
ASIC's barrister, Michael Sifris, SC, said it was not the judge's role to sanction the administrators' conduct in continuing to absorb losses - while the ACTU's counsel, Jonathan Beach, QC, believes continuing operations should only be sanctioned until February 15. The administrators want to keep going until the end of the month.
A decision has been reserved until early next week.
Meanwhile, the Federal Opposition urged the Prime Minister to intervene and bring the parties together to save jobs and preserve aviation competition.
But the Treasurer, Peter Costello, said the matter was purely commercial and enough support had already been given to the airline.
"It would be best for everyone concerned if the deal goes ahead," he said.
"I hope the private sector consortium can put some more money in and operate a good airline."
Don Quixote Impersonator
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Australia
Age: 77
Posts: 3,403
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And this, the tail of an article in todays Fin Review "Ansett woes snowball" says it all
".......Meanwhile, a key aircraft leasing company yesterday expressed doubts that Tesna would be ready to relaunch the airline by the end of the month after negotiations between the syndicate and lessors broke down.. .Tesna plans to lease A320 jets initially before taking delivery of a fleet of new planes from Airbus.. .However, it is refusing to to agree to the terms that leasing companies are demanding, which include security deposits, maintenance provisions and risk premiums because the new airline is a start-up operation and therefore more risky than Ansett was previously." my bold.
That is the real reason they are having trouble every where. Ansett ain't Ansett.
The big kids in the airline business have seen em all come and go and have learn't their lessons the hard way. Froth and bubble and all the enthusiasm in the world don't make the payments, it's cheaper to leave them parked than than run em down AND not get paid for it.
One wonders if Labour had got in whether the Govt would not have provided the comfort the lessors quite rightly need.
They take the attitude that they need to be lessors not shareholders, two completely different positions.
Mr Costello got it right too. "We manage the terminal, and we actually manage it on behalf of the public. we've got to know, who is operating it? Who is leasing it ? You know- what the terms and conditions are," he said. AFR today.
Mr Combet even is starting to feel really uncomfortable. The rush to the lifeboats and rewriting of the ships log is already under way. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
".......Meanwhile, a key aircraft leasing company yesterday expressed doubts that Tesna would be ready to relaunch the airline by the end of the month after negotiations between the syndicate and lessors broke down.. .Tesna plans to lease A320 jets initially before taking delivery of a fleet of new planes from Airbus.. .However, it is refusing to to agree to the terms that leasing companies are demanding, which include security deposits, maintenance provisions and risk premiums because the new airline is a start-up operation and therefore more risky than Ansett was previously." my bold.
That is the real reason they are having trouble every where. Ansett ain't Ansett.
The big kids in the airline business have seen em all come and go and have learn't their lessons the hard way. Froth and bubble and all the enthusiasm in the world don't make the payments, it's cheaper to leave them parked than than run em down AND not get paid for it.
One wonders if Labour had got in whether the Govt would not have provided the comfort the lessors quite rightly need.
They take the attitude that they need to be lessors not shareholders, two completely different positions.
Mr Costello got it right too. "We manage the terminal, and we actually manage it on behalf of the public. we've got to know, who is operating it? Who is leasing it ? You know- what the terms and conditions are," he said. AFR today.
Mr Combet even is starting to feel really uncomfortable. The rush to the lifeboats and rewriting of the ships log is already under way. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Sydney
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How's this for lawyerspeak. . Ansett's lawyers admitted in court yesterday the airline's struggle to return to the air was in "considerable potential controversy".. . Being the layman that i am,i interpret this to mean they are F@#$%d.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: US
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How's this for plainspeak.
Ansett will restart under FLEW. Nothing the negative brigade say in this forum can change the inevitability of this.
Virgin might have flown under blue skies since September, but the storm clouds are gathering rapidly.
. .
Ansett will restart under FLEW. Nothing the negative brigade say in this forum can change the inevitability of this.
Virgin might have flown under blue skies since September, but the storm clouds are gathering rapidly.
. .
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Earth
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had exactly the same reaction as Loco's Smoko when I read 'considerable potential controversy'. I also read that as Barrister code for "They're f@!#$d".
[ 10 February 2002: Message edited by: Mr McGoo ]</p>
[ 10 February 2002: Message edited by: Mr McGoo ]</p>
statorblade and buster hymen sound like the spoiled sons/brats of foxy and lew.. .as someone said earlier, the airline unions have seen NOTHING YET if foxy/lew get up and fly.. .imho ANSETT as we knew it, is ****@d
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wrong Wrong Wrong........AN still strong with Tesna.
T Mc has pedalled the same barrow since the beginning - as for the Sunday show this morning...his info source has let him down one more time.....as we know from other posts the deal is finalised with the Airbus boys.......and the meeting with Sir R was requested by the gent himself.... not from FLEW, Sir R had his bankers there to work forward with a plan for the Tesna people to look at VBlue.
This week will be fanfare.......roll out the bands and party on Ansett....Wednesday may well be the day but, for great news for AN!
The media have had a feeding frenzy on nothing because the cat is still in the bag - they (the Media-read T Mc) can speculate all they like, lets just wait & see as this week unfolds and see who is smiling then.
As for the losses - the terminals leases from all the previous operational AN airports have been maintained, this I would imagine would be an expensive exercise.....and might just be where quite a bit of the loss is hidden - and the reason for maintaining the leases is self explainatory!!!
So after seeing T Mc's disgraceful display of ......"Don't let a good Bull@#%t story get in the way of the truth awaiting in the wings"......all I can say is T Mc your bedtime fantasy stories regarding AN are more ficticious than "Harry Potter" unfortunately not any where near as clever!!!!
T Mc has pedalled the same barrow since the beginning - as for the Sunday show this morning...his info source has let him down one more time.....as we know from other posts the deal is finalised with the Airbus boys.......and the meeting with Sir R was requested by the gent himself.... not from FLEW, Sir R had his bankers there to work forward with a plan for the Tesna people to look at VBlue.
This week will be fanfare.......roll out the bands and party on Ansett....Wednesday may well be the day but, for great news for AN!
The media have had a feeding frenzy on nothing because the cat is still in the bag - they (the Media-read T Mc) can speculate all they like, lets just wait & see as this week unfolds and see who is smiling then.
As for the losses - the terminals leases from all the previous operational AN airports have been maintained, this I would imagine would be an expensive exercise.....and might just be where quite a bit of the loss is hidden - and the reason for maintaining the leases is self explainatory!!!
So after seeing T Mc's disgraceful display of ......"Don't let a good Bull@#%t story get in the way of the truth awaiting in the wings"......all I can say is T Mc your bedtime fantasy stories regarding AN are more ficticious than "Harry Potter" unfortunately not any where near as clever!!!!
