A New Start: Time to Restructure the Aviation Industry
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A New Start: Time to Restructure the Aviation Industry
These are indeed difficult times in aviation, not that there is ever a very easy time in this business. We seem to be at the bottom of the cycle in that roller coaster of an industry we call aviation. From the out set please let me state that I am passionate about aviation, it has been in my family for years and I am a Charter Pilot, though not working at present, and not really sure if I am ever going to make it
back, but here's hoping.
Now bare with me here as I am trying to think a bit outside the circle here. For this indusrty to survive, there has to be some fundamental restructuring of it, from the ground up. I am only going to speak from a pilot's view as I am not a Lame, an
operator or an administrator.
I believe that we need to introduce a quota system into commercial aviation, similar to the way universities use quota systems to control the amount of graduates coming out of Universities. I believe that the level we are all trained at is the same as a degree holding individual and as so we should be treated as such, like professionals.
If a quota system was put in place the number of comm. Lic's coming out each year would be reduced, and reducing the number of pilots on the street, giving the candidate a fair chance of securiing a career in the field of flying. In this time, I think that we should really look closely at options like this. Though a quota system isn't going to protect anyone from having an airline like Ansett go under and potentially have 800 pilots out of work. All the Best for the new Ansett mark II.
Java - Freshly brewed every morning
back, but here's hoping.
Now bare with me here as I am trying to think a bit outside the circle here. For this indusrty to survive, there has to be some fundamental restructuring of it, from the ground up. I am only going to speak from a pilot's view as I am not a Lame, an
operator or an administrator.
I believe that we need to introduce a quota system into commercial aviation, similar to the way universities use quota systems to control the amount of graduates coming out of Universities. I believe that the level we are all trained at is the same as a degree holding individual and as so we should be treated as such, like professionals.
If a quota system was put in place the number of comm. Lic's coming out each year would be reduced, and reducing the number of pilots on the street, giving the candidate a fair chance of securiing a career in the field of flying. In this time, I think that we should really look closely at options like this. Though a quota system isn't going to protect anyone from having an airline like Ansett go under and potentially have 800 pilots out of work. All the Best for the new Ansett mark II.
Java - Freshly brewed every morning
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Its a good idea Java, might hurt the smaller schools though and they'll cry foul, but a good idea none the less.
You would have to exclude foreign students from this quota in order to keep that end of the market moving, also a minimum educational requirement (ter/vce cut of mark) would help sort the wanna be's from the gonna be's.
You would have to exclude foreign students from this quota in order to keep that end of the market moving, also a minimum educational requirement (ter/vce cut of mark) would help sort the wanna be's from the gonna be's.
Time to restructure? - yes
Need to restructure? - imperative
Quota on new entrants? - Sorry, needs much more that this and implementation is problematical. Could become nepotistic as elsewhere and not bring in the best and brightest. (And is shrinking the industry's gene pool desirable in the long term?)
There's a bit of a discussion on industry reform over at "CASA gets Trifecta". Contributions welcome.
Edited for spelling :o
[ 15 November 2001: Message edited by: CoodaShooda ]
Need to restructure? - imperative
Quota on new entrants? - Sorry, needs much more that this and implementation is problematical. Could become nepotistic as elsewhere and not bring in the best and brightest. (And is shrinking the industry's gene pool desirable in the long term?)
There's a bit of a discussion on industry reform over at "CASA gets Trifecta". Contributions welcome.
Edited for spelling :o
[ 15 November 2001: Message edited by: CoodaShooda ]
A nice theory, but sadly the industry ebbs and flows too much for that to be realistic. In the medical world, roughly similar numbers of people get sick every year and any changes tend to be long term and quotas can change.
An aviation student takes a couple of years to do all the training, then a couple of years in what could be classed as an unregulated internship (belting around the bush in a 206). It is only after then that the pilot is suitable for airlines (excepting cadets, but then again we are not talking about them). The industry ebbs and flows too much for quotas to react enough and supply the right amount of pilots.
And after all, we as pilots are a commodity. There are good and bad pilots out there. Just because you have graduated frm a college that has a certain HSC mark, does not mean that you will be a good operator in every circumstance.
A nice thought in the sheltered world of job protectionism (somewhat like the UK Johnny foreigner syndrome) but the reality is waaaaay different.
An aviation student takes a couple of years to do all the training, then a couple of years in what could be classed as an unregulated internship (belting around the bush in a 206). It is only after then that the pilot is suitable for airlines (excepting cadets, but then again we are not talking about them). The industry ebbs and flows too much for quotas to react enough and supply the right amount of pilots.
And after all, we as pilots are a commodity. There are good and bad pilots out there. Just because you have graduated frm a college that has a certain HSC mark, does not mean that you will be a good operator in every circumstance.
A nice thought in the sheltered world of job protectionism (somewhat like the UK Johnny foreigner syndrome) but the reality is waaaaay different.
Grandpa Aerotart
Evidence is out there that less young people are taking up aviation as a career anyway so that should cause some sort of self correction over time.
If CASA would enforce a suitable standard among aspirants and FAIL those who don't make the grade that would help the long term viability of our industry as well. Hell might even save a few lives!!!
But CASA is more interested in giving the correctly functioning sector the $hits with stupid nit picking and cries 'helpless' when pointed towards pilots who have pitifull standards, in my experience.
Chuck.
If CASA would enforce a suitable standard among aspirants and FAIL those who don't make the grade that would help the long term viability of our industry as well. Hell might even save a few lives!!!
But CASA is more interested in giving the correctly functioning sector the $hits with stupid nit picking and cries 'helpless' when pointed towards pilots who have pitifull standards, in my experience.
Chuck.
As CC has said, fewer young people are taking up avition. This is across many levels. A shortage of engineers is definitely on the horizon, and is probably starting to bear its teeth now as anyone who is after decent engineering (especially avionics) in Darwin or elsewhere similar can attest 
The glory days and status of the pilot are over. No longer are they highly paid, and after all look at all the hard work that is required to even get halfway there.
Do an IT course at TAFE, get a job in the industry and you will most likely be earning more than just about every senior GA pilot after a couple of years, and any non QF pilot after 10.
Flying aeroplanes is fast joining the ranks of being considered a low skilled profession.
I look at the friends with whom I went to Uni (non aviation course) and the money they take home and the structured fun life they seem to lead and I feel pangs of jealousy. I look at my award piston twin pilot's pay cheque (mid30'sK) and the feelings of jealousy are magnified.
Then I start to think of what I have done this month. Trips to PNG, cruising out low across the Reef watching rays and sharks and turtles, out into the Western Deserts, weekend fishing trips to the Cape, tropical island charters, and many things unmentionable here. It's then I realise that I would not want to do anything else.
The glory days and status of the pilot are over. No longer are they highly paid, and after all look at all the hard work that is required to even get halfway there.
Do an IT course at TAFE, get a job in the industry and you will most likely be earning more than just about every senior GA pilot after a couple of years, and any non QF pilot after 10.
Flying aeroplanes is fast joining the ranks of being considered a low skilled profession.
I look at the friends with whom I went to Uni (non aviation course) and the money they take home and the structured fun life they seem to lead and I feel pangs of jealousy. I look at my award piston twin pilot's pay cheque (mid30'sK) and the feelings of jealousy are magnified.
Then I start to think of what I have done this month. Trips to PNG, cruising out low across the Reef watching rays and sharks and turtles, out into the Western Deserts, weekend fishing trips to the Cape, tropical island charters, and many things unmentionable here. It's then I realise that I would not want to do anything else.
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well said Ace
If anything needs regulation - it is the flying schools and their "advertising".
"Airline Preparation, Airline Training, Full Airline Entry Program,..."
is just some of the CR@P these flying schools are advertising.
They shouldnt "falsely advertise" and train so many pilots - many who got no hope. (as Ace said)
The above slogans would make a young 17 year old believe he/she will actually get into an airline by doing such an "airline" course.
Other flying schools have glossy brochures of students sitting in simulators (not flying them) instead of the actual 5hitbox little Cessna/Piper they will actually be learning to fly on.
If only the flying schools were more honest then there wouldn't be such a large oversupply of pilots.
If anything needs regulation - it is the flying schools and their "advertising".
"Airline Preparation, Airline Training, Full Airline Entry Program,..."
is just some of the CR@P these flying schools are advertising.
They shouldnt "falsely advertise" and train so many pilots - many who got no hope. (as Ace said)
The above slogans would make a young 17 year old believe he/she will actually get into an airline by doing such an "airline" course.
Other flying schools have glossy brochures of students sitting in simulators (not flying them) instead of the actual 5hitbox little Cessna/Piper they will actually be learning to fly on.
If only the flying schools were more honest then there wouldn't be such a large oversupply of pilots.
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Interesting thread and some valid points made, however unlikely their implementation may be.
I know from a friends recent experiences that the schools certainly do the spin, but like most industries you gotta talk the jive to survive.
Joe Blow's 50k goes into the industry, and at the end of the day provides much needed employment and hour building for those who take the instructors route, thus taking some pressure off the other GA options. Rather a paradox isn't it.
Without trying to hijack the thread, I would be interested in your opinions on just what does sort the wannabes from the gonnabes, or the wheat from the chaff.
I know from a friends recent experiences that the schools certainly do the spin, but like most industries you gotta talk the jive to survive.
Joe Blow's 50k goes into the industry, and at the end of the day provides much needed employment and hour building for those who take the instructors route, thus taking some pressure off the other GA options. Rather a paradox isn't it.
Without trying to hijack the thread, I would be interested in your opinions on just what does sort the wannabes from the gonnabes, or the wheat from the chaff.
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Easy BB, all you need is a crazy one eyed,blinkered,to hell with everything else ambition to fly aircraft for a living and as there are so many of us it also explains why a quota system won't work and the lousy conditions in most of GA. ******!
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The rights or wrongs of what some flying schools might do isn't an issue that can be resolved easily. Ever think about the stuff that some car sales yards do?
In any event, I can't see a quota system working. Sure, some people WILL get a CPL when they shouldn't. But, in my modest experience, the industry often sorts that out before any real damage is done. This is, IMHO, one of the major advantages of a robust GA industry, as it's well placed to sort the wheat from the chaff.
I'm not saying this is the ideal solution, but it also works that way in many non-aviation industries.
In any event, I can't see a quota system working. Sure, some people WILL get a CPL when they shouldn't. But, in my modest experience, the industry often sorts that out before any real damage is done. This is, IMHO, one of the major advantages of a robust GA industry, as it's well placed to sort the wheat from the chaff.
I'm not saying this is the ideal solution, but it also works that way in many non-aviation industries.
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I am Puzzled! While the idea of a Quota System is a novel idea, it should remain just that. Who should have a right to tell me or the guy next to me, what they should and shouldn't be able to do? If I want to fly because it has been my lifelong passion, then I should be allowed to spend the copious amounts of money required and get my licences. If I want to compete for a position in the industry, just like every other commercial pilot, I should be able to.
Universities have Quota's to limit the number of students that can get into a subject or degree program, not to limit the number who actually graduate and are out there in the work-force, but to limit the number of students in a class (because they don't have the resources to teach everyone). It is almost impossible to predict what people will do with their degree when they leave university, how many law graduates become lawyers, etc, etc...
What the Aviation Industry in Australia needs is reform of CASA. CASA needs to be taken down a notch and work for the Aviation Industry, fostering it and helping it grow. Not to make it too competitive and costly for anyone to operate in.
Universities have Quota's to limit the number of students that can get into a subject or degree program, not to limit the number who actually graduate and are out there in the work-force, but to limit the number of students in a class (because they don't have the resources to teach everyone). It is almost impossible to predict what people will do with their degree when they leave university, how many law graduates become lawyers, etc, etc...
What the Aviation Industry in Australia needs is reform of CASA. CASA needs to be taken down a notch and work for the Aviation Industry, fostering it and helping it grow. Not to make it too competitive and costly for anyone to operate in.
Chuck
Close but one major flaw.
Don't separate the regulators. Bring them into the fold and teach 'em what its all about.
You need them on side to give you sensible regs and to fight the battles when a decision in an unrelated area threatens to spill over into aviation law.
"To dream the impossible dream.....da da etc"
Gaunty
According to Ita the Unquenchable, middle age now runs from 60 to 80. Old age doesn't kick in until about 90.
Wisdom and experience will always conquer youth and exuberance....so why are we so keen to put everything in the hands of the young
Close but one major flaw.
Don't separate the regulators. Bring them into the fold and teach 'em what its all about.
You need them on side to give you sensible regs and to fight the battles when a decision in an unrelated area threatens to spill over into aviation law.
"To dream the impossible dream.....da da etc"
Gaunty
According to Ita the Unquenchable, middle age now runs from 60 to 80. Old age doesn't kick in until about 90.
Wisdom and experience will always conquer youth and exuberance....so why are we so keen to put everything in the hands of the young
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Cooda
Grooooooaaaan 90 
geez I don't think my liver will get that far
I just want a little rest, just for a moment.
I don't actually recall 'giving' or 'putting' anything in the hands of the young, one moment they were just 'there' and I was 'here'. I knew the jig was up when I started to hear "but things were different then".
However, I hold fondly in my memory the following scene from a former life.
I had completed Part 1 of a 2 year consulting assignment for a Top 50 company and sitting in their Boardroom (fantastic Sydney Harbour views) with the Board committee, finishing off the presentation and from the results adjusting the brief for Part 2. We came to the final bit where I would outline an approximation of my further fees and costs (same rate as before) for approval, when a young chap sitting down the end of the table who had been silent for most of the proceedings piped up with the comment, "that's a bit rich, your fees are higher than mine and I'm a lawyer".
Silence.........a long one........first to speak loses.......deep rumble from BOSS (himself a lawyer) at the other end of the table........then "that may be so, but what gaunty is doing here, saves us from having to employ several more of you and then getting him to come clean up afterwards anyway. In fact I'm going to assign you as our direct contact from our side"
We all had a laugh about it at lunch afterwards and the youngster eventually became a good friend, but it was hard going for a while.
They have the energy and enthusiasm and education, if only they knew how to effectively utilise the hard won collective wisdom...........
Grooooooaaaan
90 geez I don't think my liver will get that far I just want a little rest, just for a moment.
Wisdom and experience will always conquer youth and exuberance....so why are we so keen to put everything in the hands of the young
However, I hold fondly in my memory the following scene from a former life.
I had completed Part 1 of a 2 year consulting assignment for a Top 50 company and sitting in their Boardroom (fantastic Sydney Harbour views) with the Board committee, finishing off the presentation and from the results adjusting the brief for Part 2. We came to the final bit where I would outline an approximation of my further fees and costs (same rate as before) for approval, when a young chap sitting down the end of the table who had been silent for most of the proceedings piped up with the comment, "that's a bit rich, your fees are higher than mine and I'm a lawyer".
Silence.........a long one........first to speak loses.......deep rumble from BOSS (himself a lawyer) at the other end of the table........then "that may be so, but what gaunty is doing here, saves us from having to employ several more of you and then getting him to come clean up afterwards anyway. In fact I'm going to assign you as our direct contact from our side"
We all had a laugh about it at lunch afterwards and the youngster eventually became a good friend, but it was hard going for a while.
They have the energy and enthusiasm and education, if only they knew how to effectively utilise the hard won collective wisdom...........
Gaunty
(Just picking up from a radio interview with a Nationals pollie this morning where she was claiming that not enough young candidates were being pre-selected.)
Sounds like a good argument for developing closer relations between the generations .
They can push the wheelchairs and we can direct 'em. Works for me!
Energy and Enthusiasm I agree with. I'm starting to think that formal education is of less value than experience.
Buggrit Gaunty, when you look at it we've got everything we need....so why can't we make it work??
(Just picking up from a radio interview with a Nationals pollie this morning where she was claiming that not enough young candidates were being pre-selected.)
Sounds like a good argument for developing closer relations between the generations
.They can push the wheelchairs and we can direct 'em. Works for me!
Energy and Enthusiasm I agree with. I'm starting to think that formal education is of less value than experience.
Buggrit Gaunty, when you look at it we've got everything we need....so why can't we make it work??