Jandakot Notam: MBZ during the day
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Jandakot Notam: MBZ during the day
For those who may not have looked at NOTAMS today:
JANDAKOT (YPJT)
CTR IS RECLASSIFIED CLASS G AIRSPACE
DUE TO SHORTAGE OF AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL STAFF
MBZ PROC APPLY USE PUBLISHED GAAP APPROACH POINTS WHEN INBOUND
FROM 10 130400 TO 10 131000
DAILY 0400/0500 0945/1000
Please people, work out the correct circuit direction before coming into the MBZ...!
JANDAKOT (YPJT)
CTR IS RECLASSIFIED CLASS G AIRSPACE
DUE TO SHORTAGE OF AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL STAFF
MBZ PROC APPLY USE PUBLISHED GAAP APPROACH POINTS WHEN INBOUND
FROM 10 130400 TO 10 131000
DAILY 0400/0500 0945/1000
Please people, work out the correct circuit direction before coming into the MBZ...!
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If this keeps up it's only a matter of time before there is a major collision and spear in. It is going to be totally chaotic, at least Im glad Im not there. Oh well user pays, we are paying but still the service is degrading. Wait a minute? Whats new? 
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Sure enough today as soon as the tower closed, people were turning right after take off on RW24 blissfully ignorant of the fact it is a left circuit when an MBZ.
No sign of a CAGRO service, which would have helped.
(And it would have been very naive to expect anyone to ask the local CFIs what they thought of this)
Lets hope no-one sends students solo in the middle of the day...
[ 13 October 2001: Message edited by: Charlie Foxtrot India ]
No sign of a CAGRO service, which would have helped.
(And it would have been very naive to expect anyone to ask the local CFIs what they thought of this)
Lets hope no-one sends students solo in the middle of the day...
[ 13 October 2001: Message edited by: Charlie Foxtrot India ]
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Does this amount to gross negligence in the event of a major prang? If so then the money saved in cost cutting ATC to a skeleton will be paid out in law suits. JT has been on borrowed time for years. It's only a matter of time before a big bang occurs.
Affordable safety, what a joke. Pull your heads out your bums Noservices and start putting in some money to provide a service.
Affordable safety, what a joke. Pull your heads out your bums Noservices and start putting in some money to provide a service.
short flights long nights
Having learnt to fly at Jandakot, and worked there for many years, and worked in Australian aviation for many years, before I left to go overseas, let me say this.
!
1 JTK needs a tower, without one there WILL be a loss of life.
2 Why is it considered OK not to have a tower now, but 15 years ago you had a almost full time tower, and a FSU down stairs (who could tell you bye the way "Dont go out to Old Charlies Farm because Bert went yesterday and the airstrip is covered in sheep" Those guys in FSU where great, and it is a great loss that they are no longer
!
1 JTK needs a tower, without one there WILL be a loss of life.
2 Why is it considered OK not to have a tower now, but 15 years ago you had a almost full time tower, and a FSU down stairs (who could tell you bye the way "Dont go out to Old Charlies Farm because Bert went yesterday and the airstrip is covered in sheep" Those guys in FSU where great, and it is a great loss that they are no longer
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I thought you pilot types disliked ATC's? 
Now the shut them down and you don't seem happy? 
Tell the media...the pollies may listen for the next couple of weeks (just to get something to say on TV)but don't hold your breath.
The solution...there isn't one, but if you refuse to pay avcharges (as you are not receiving a service) that may sting them a bit.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't the only mid air collisions in OZ happened in controlled (or GAAP) airspace? I'll be happy to be corrected.
Now the shut them down and you don't seem happy? Tell the media...the pollies may listen for the next couple of weeks (just to get something to say on TV)but don't hold your breath.
The solution...there isn't one, but if you refuse to pay avcharges (as you are not receiving a service) that may sting them a bit.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't the only mid air collisions in OZ happened in controlled (or GAAP) airspace? I'll be happy to be corrected.
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No.. I believe Hoxton Park MBZ (NSW) has had a couple over the last few years hit each other. One aircraft landed on one taking off, and two aircraft collided x-wind/upwind.
The CASA?? site has the investigations into them.
Pass-A-Frozo
[ 14 October 2001: Message edited by: Pass-A-Frozo ]
The CASA?? site has the investigations into them.
Pass-A-Frozo
[ 14 October 2001: Message edited by: Pass-A-Frozo ]
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I can't believe it. My mate applied for the ATC training for next year, to be given an interview, and then told a week later that they had postponed all recruitment till end of 2002. Doesn't this seem a bit stupid - already short staffed, and with attrition by the end of next year we're gonna see YSSY going MBZ!!! (ok maybe not, but you get the idea)
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Well it looks like Smith, Munro, Mitchell and their AOPA mates finally won the day.
Heck why don't we start MBZing the Primarys now.
The big kids being all that more professional shouldn't have any trouble at all keeping themselves separated.
Who needs weather and stuff now when you can get it off CNN or Bloomberg before you go.
And heck why don't we just close the whole CASA ASA thing down I mean the only reason they have been there for the last godzillion years is to retard the progress of aviation, isn't that right DICK.
Heck why don't we start MBZing the Primarys now.
The big kids being all that more professional shouldn't have any trouble at all keeping themselves separated.
Who needs weather and stuff now when you can get it off CNN or Bloomberg before you go.
And heck why don't we just close the whole CASA ASA thing down I mean the only reason they have been there for the last godzillion years is to retard the progress of aviation, isn't that right DICK.
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PaF, YHOX is a CTAF, ie; carriage and use of radio not mandatory. It still doesn't change the fact that those accidents have happened (with the resultant loss of life and hulls), but with the visual approach point of 2RN (into BK) about a mile and a half to the south of the upwind threshold for RWY16 at HOX, then the perpensity for something to happen one day is there, and it wont look pretty if it does. Two a/c on different freq, one descending, one climbing, and houses around everywhere.
When going into BK it can be a little disconcerting to look out of the left window to see and aircraft extending upwind because the circuit at Hoxton Park is getting full is the point I suppose I'm trying to make. If we all want it to work, we all have to work together to keep safe.
When going into BK it can be a little disconcerting to look out of the left window to see and aircraft extending upwind because the circuit at Hoxton Park is getting full is the point I suppose I'm trying to make. If we all want it to work, we all have to work together to keep safe.
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Notam not there today, (phew!) and for the first time in a few days we are not getting "expect delays and restrictions" on the ATIS.
Quite apart from the safety aspect this is costing us money, having to cancel lessons because we can't get a slot in the circuit.
Diving duck, the professional operators never wanted the tower closed, we were dead against the cutbacks in staff and hours, but nobody listened to us. The empty vessels making the most noise were the amateur types most of whom had never been to Jandakot.
Quite apart from the safety aspect this is costing us money, having to cancel lessons because we can't get a slot in the circuit.
Diving duck, the professional operators never wanted the tower closed, we were dead against the cutbacks in staff and hours, but nobody listened to us. The empty vessels making the most noise were the amateur types most of whom had never been to Jandakot.
Good points 429 CJ.
How many times can you think of where the circuit has been packed at BK so you head out to HOX, only to find the situation even worse? So often HOX has 6 or 7 planes going round, and the guys at BK are restricting it to 4 or 5. Dangerous stuff indeed.
On another note, a similar NOTAM to those at JT and PF has been active at BK on and off over the past couple of months, i.e. ATS Availability down, restrictions may be placed on circuit training etc.
Pull your finger out AsA, and do something about it! These are the same people who just cancelled a recruitment drive for new ATCOs.
Cheers,
TL
How many times can you think of where the circuit has been packed at BK so you head out to HOX, only to find the situation even worse? So often HOX has 6 or 7 planes going round, and the guys at BK are restricting it to 4 or 5. Dangerous stuff indeed.
On another note, a similar NOTAM to those at JT and PF has been active at BK on and off over the past couple of months, i.e. ATS Availability down, restrictions may be placed on circuit training etc.
Pull your finger out AsA, and do something about it! These are the same people who just cancelled a recruitment drive for new ATCOs.
Cheers,
TL
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Makes you wonder. Are staff not available, or have ASA management just decided not to pay overtime rates to call someone out?
Brave decision if this is the case and something goes wrong.
Brave decision if this is the case and something goes wrong.
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I was flying at that time yesterday, circuit was full and inexperienced pilots flying all over the place. Ridiculous that they stop for lunch and morning tea. Someone dies due to someones hunger, LUDICRAS!!
Also I reckon the landing fees should be reduced like they are for night flights.
This practice of shutdowns is dangerous and non productive for schools.
Wake up ASA and get pull your head outta the sand!
Also I reckon the landing fees should be reduced like they are for night flights.
This practice of shutdowns is dangerous and non productive for schools.
Wake up ASA and get pull your head outta the sand!
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There used to be plenty of staff in the tower, and longer tower hours, until we were told that the controllers cost too much, $200 grand a year EACH was the price tag as I recall. This was around the same time we were hit with ASA charges, and half of our local controllers were given redundancy packages most of us could only imagine in our wildest dreams. ASA ignored the safety concerns of the local operators, including the aiport owners, and not long after CASA closed their office at Jandakot and moved to Perth to look after the "fare paying passengers", showing how concerned they were for safety at one of the busiest airports in the country. Not.
It would help if all local pilots read the ERSA and were familiar with MBZ procedures. I suppose many of them never imagined they would suddenly find themselves in the MBZ in the middle of the day, and perhaps would have made more effort to check them out if they had known this sort of thing could happen.
Let's not forget to give credit to the remaining "talking traffic lights" who do an excellent job.
If this is affordable safety then does that mean there is such a thing as an affordable accident?
[ 15 October 2001: Message edited by: Charlie Foxtrot India ]
It would help if all local pilots read the ERSA and were familiar with MBZ procedures. I suppose many of them never imagined they would suddenly find themselves in the MBZ in the middle of the day, and perhaps would have made more effort to check them out if they had known this sort of thing could happen.
Let's not forget to give credit to the remaining "talking traffic lights" who do an excellent job.
If this is affordable safety then does that mean there is such a thing as an affordable accident?
[ 15 October 2001: Message edited by: Charlie Foxtrot India ]
CFI - the CASA safety forum is on Saturday 27 October at the Hyatt. The concern as to the lunch breaks and making it an MBZ should be raised as should the need for pilots ( all categories ) to understand MBZ procedures, particularly circuit entry, departures etc. CASA have a role in this and that is to ensure a very busy GA airport can operate to optimum safety. Mind you MBZ ops and how the average pilot handles them has been a concern for as long as I can remember. Agree with Gaunty, there are those who think that the dollar overrides basic safety, even in an environment where the learners are mixing with the pros and the amateurs - scary stuff!