Time to liquidate Ansett??
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Time to liquidate Ansett??
It justs get better and better, just heard Korda on the local radio station saying, "Yes we are losing just under $1,000,000 a day" Must be close to $30 Million a Month!! What the hell are they doing? I am still waiting for my redundancy pay, when am I going to get it?
I have the solution, liquidate Ansett now before it loses anymore of creditors money. Sell the terminals to the Federal Government for $270 million.They can lease them out to any new startups, Virgin etc. Use the lease money, ticket levy, SEESA payments and ANZ $150 million to pay out the staff. The staff have suffered enough under these clowns!
I have the solution, liquidate Ansett now before it loses anymore of creditors money. Sell the terminals to the Federal Government for $270 million.They can lease them out to any new startups, Virgin etc. Use the lease money, ticket levy, SEESA payments and ANZ $150 million to pay out the staff. The staff have suffered enough under these clowns!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: vic
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Z-L
What a great idea !!! Liquidate the airline sell all the assets and then get nothing for your trouble. Remember there will be a $300m shortfall if FLEW does not fly.. .I think $30 mil is not going to make much differance to your final payout and thats if it does take the full 30 day that they have asked for. The press say in their intro "at least 30 days for the sale to go through" then Korda says "upto 30 days". The press love this stuff!!!
What a great idea !!! Liquidate the airline sell all the assets and then get nothing for your trouble. Remember there will be a $300m shortfall if FLEW does not fly.. .I think $30 mil is not going to make much differance to your final payout and thats if it does take the full 30 day that they have asked for. The press say in their intro "at least 30 days for the sale to go through" then Korda says "upto 30 days". The press love this stuff!!!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Foxtrotter, you don't seem to understand the statements from the administrator. Let me help you a bit. Without the Fox/Lew bid, there would have been nothing for the creditors (non-employees) in September, in December, yesterday, or next month. It is therefore really a no brainer about the $30Million. You MAYBE get something or you get nothing. Your choice.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Foxtrotter
Ditto for Okie's comments. There is absolutely (there's that word again) no return for the unsecured creditors and doubt for employee entitlements in full if the show was liquidated now.
Tesna represents the best way forward.
Ditto for Okie's comments. There is absolutely (there's that word again) no return for the unsecured creditors and doubt for employee entitlements in full if the show was liquidated now.
Tesna represents the best way forward.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Townsville,Nth Queensland
Posts: 2,717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NINEMSN
Ansett delays could be extended
The 30-day delay to finalising the Tesna/Ansett sale deal was not definite and could be deferred again, Ansett administrators said.
Administrator Mark Mentha, of Andersen, said the 30-day deferment announced during the second creditors meeting was "prudent" action by administrators and Tesna principals Solomon Lew and Lindsay Fox.
If more time was needed and "if there was a view to commercial certainty we would extend again", he told radio 3AW.
However, the deal was likely to be concluded well before the 30-day delay, he said.
Mr Mentha said administrators would honour tickets sold under the Tesna banner and would fly to the schedule announced by the Fox/Lew syndicate last month.
The delay would cost the Ansett administration $2.5 million a week in trading costs and another $3.5 million to lease computer equipment.
But the extra costs had been written into the administrators' estimates and would not impact on returns to creditors, including employees, Mr Mentha said.
But, unions say the 30-day delay is an absolute limit.
ACTU secretary Greg Combet said if the delay went any longer it would eat into the entitlements of the airline's former employees.
The federal government is expected to intervene to help fast-track the transfer of the Sydney Airports Corporation lease from Ansett administrators to Tesna Holdings.
The lease has been identified as the major hurdle in settling the Tesna/Ansett sale deal.
Meanwhile, Mr Mentha said administrators were continuing to lease aircraft at pre-September 11 prices, more than twice the cost of the deal brokered by Mr Fox and Mr Lew.
The administration was also continuing to pay for airport leases that were no longer used by the airline, at Coolangatta, Townsville and Cairns.
. . ©AAP 2001
Ansett delays could be extended
The 30-day delay to finalising the Tesna/Ansett sale deal was not definite and could be deferred again, Ansett administrators said.
Administrator Mark Mentha, of Andersen, said the 30-day deferment announced during the second creditors meeting was "prudent" action by administrators and Tesna principals Solomon Lew and Lindsay Fox.
If more time was needed and "if there was a view to commercial certainty we would extend again", he told radio 3AW.
However, the deal was likely to be concluded well before the 30-day delay, he said.
Mr Mentha said administrators would honour tickets sold under the Tesna banner and would fly to the schedule announced by the Fox/Lew syndicate last month.
The delay would cost the Ansett administration $2.5 million a week in trading costs and another $3.5 million to lease computer equipment.
But the extra costs had been written into the administrators' estimates and would not impact on returns to creditors, including employees, Mr Mentha said.
But, unions say the 30-day delay is an absolute limit.
ACTU secretary Greg Combet said if the delay went any longer it would eat into the entitlements of the airline's former employees.
The federal government is expected to intervene to help fast-track the transfer of the Sydney Airports Corporation lease from Ansett administrators to Tesna Holdings.
The lease has been identified as the major hurdle in settling the Tesna/Ansett sale deal.
Meanwhile, Mr Mentha said administrators were continuing to lease aircraft at pre-September 11 prices, more than twice the cost of the deal brokered by Mr Fox and Mr Lew.
The administration was also continuing to pay for airport leases that were no longer used by the airline, at Coolangatta, Townsville and Cairns.
. . ©AAP 2001
FT, What do you mean after the vote? The delay was announced before the vote and the resolution amended accordingly. It would have been netter had we known earlier but it is unlikely it would have made any difference to the outcome.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FoxTrotter, can you tell me what creditors are going to lose any money by the administrator operating for another month? Only the government, who have said that they are not going to give any of the money from the "Ansett tax" back anyway. Just want all of you negative posters to have a little sympathy for those whose careers are on the line.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Sydney
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is now and always was a shortfall of 300 million in employee entitlements in liquidation.Nothing for any other creditors!
The clever administrators, unbelievably,managed to bleed 150 million out of AirNZ enabling to sell as a going concern.
Take a risk with Tesna as I will get either an A320 job or a 100g payout.
Channel 10 news stating government to fast track airport deal.
The clever administrators, unbelievably,managed to bleed 150 million out of AirNZ enabling to sell as a going concern.
Take a risk with Tesna as I will get either an A320 job or a 100g payout.
Channel 10 news stating government to fast track airport deal.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry Guys, I have to agree with Zoolander on this one. I am also waiting for my payout. Everday I check my bank balance, and am shocked to see yet again nothing deposited! To me this means that the Administrators have blown the $195 Million SEESA payment for the staff, and also the $150 Million from ANZ I have been given a piece of paper with my payout on it, but "the cheque is in the mail". .I read in todays paper that the best deal that the ACTU has come up with is $100 million to guarantee the employees entitlements. As I have worked for "Ansett" for a long time my entitlements are worth about 3 years service under Tesna. I am not prepared to risk my entitlements working for an Airline that is losing about $7 Million a week.
To all the employees (7000?????) that wish to take their chance, I suppose it depends on how much you stand to lose. For some of you it is very little, but for the long term employees it is a hell of a lot.
Where does the new figure of 7000 employees come from?? I suppose that 6000 of them are working one day in 10. A sceptic would say that if they are employed even one day a month they don't have to be payed out. Remember there are others in line two and three waiting in the wings for your job! Better sign up quick before they do!
Good luck, all the best!
To all the employees (7000?????) that wish to take their chance, I suppose it depends on how much you stand to lose. For some of you it is very little, but for the long term employees it is a hell of a lot.
Where does the new figure of 7000 employees come from?? I suppose that 6000 of them are working one day in 10. A sceptic would say that if they are employed even one day a month they don't have to be payed out. Remember there are others in line two and three waiting in the wings for your job! Better sign up quick before they do!
Good luck, all the best!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: vic
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
G_F. .It must be frustrating Iam sure, It's just as frustrating for us that are working on just a few hours each month, not sure of what's just around the next corner, however you would have to be crazy to wish for liquidation given that you will receive nothing in the way of a payout. You already have nothing so something down the track has got to be better even if it is a while off.
Hang in there, Iam sure it will be for the best.
Hang in there, Iam sure it will be for the best.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: YMML
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It seems the only ones who have swallowed and try and defend the absolute rubbish that the only chance now or before of people seeing any kind of payout is/was to go cap in hand to FLEW, are the few "lucky" ones who have been fast tracked into a job offer with AN3 if it ever gets going.. .A selfish but in someways understandable emotion,. ."Stockholm Syndrome" I think its called.
Evertonian
Perhaps not aiming point. I am a lucky one, as you have quaintly put it, to have accepted an offer with Tesna. However, I don't feel very comfortable in that knowledge at all. If anything, I've probably blown any chance of seeing a payout ever!
I decided, on personal reasons, to stay put and forgo the chance to get my 20 years or so of entitlements. As there is no sight of those payments coming, as previously mentioned, I decided it was best to keep an income coming into the household. I wish everyone who has taken the payout option well & every success. But just remember, if they so desire & are offered a position in the future, they may have had their cake & get to eat it too. Whilst the likes of me, have missed an opportunity for a mid carreer payout! <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
The best we can hope for, is for the deal to work & AN be every success that it should've been. Talking it up on this forum or in the media is as much about rebuilding the employees confidence as the publics.
I decided, on personal reasons, to stay put and forgo the chance to get my 20 years or so of entitlements. As there is no sight of those payments coming, as previously mentioned, I decided it was best to keep an income coming into the household. I wish everyone who has taken the payout option well & every success. But just remember, if they so desire & are offered a position in the future, they may have had their cake & get to eat it too. Whilst the likes of me, have missed an opportunity for a mid carreer payout! <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
The best we can hope for, is for the deal to work & AN be every success that it should've been. Talking it up on this forum or in the media is as much about rebuilding the employees confidence as the publics.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: YMML
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So if my understanding of what you say "BUSTER" is correct, by signing on with TESNA you and your colleagues have categorically relinquished for now and forever any and all of your accrued entitlements, and should AN3 become bankrupt you will have no recourse and make no claim on the Australian government, ie taxpayer, for any of those previously accrued entitlements should TESNA walk away pleading poor and unable to pay up?. .Further more should you subsequently decide to resign from AN3/TESNA in 12 months time you will NOT recieve one cent of your previous Ansett accrued entitlements?. .Nothing carries over to TESNA/AN3?. .Is this really true? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
[ 30 January 2002: Message edited by: aiming point ]</p>
[ 30 January 2002: Message edited by: aiming point ]</p>
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My understanding is that the ACTU have been looking after their members by seeking to guarantee their entitlements with real assets (the terminals). The Pilots are not in the ACTU but the APA which is not a union but a very weak association with no industrial power. The Pilots probably stampeeded in to sign up without any guarantee of their entitlements. I may be wrong, I sure someone out there knows the truth!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: vic
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A little off the subject but this guy wants it all!! The payout, a contract overseas untill the outcome is clear and his job back as a captain over the fo's that cant get work even if they want it.
Gentlemen. .I am writtimg this from Miyazaki in southern Japan. I have a three year contract with a startup airline. We are optimistic, the company is treating us well, and we have high hopes for a bright future. We are, of course, faced with the uncertainties of life as contract crew .
I have not seen my wife and kids for three weeks and will not for another four. When I do it will be when they arrive in a foreign country where they do not speak the languade. My four-year-old will be faced with attending a pre-school where no-one will understand him or be understood by him. I`m sure he`ll adjust, but as a father it is heartwrenching to know you are putting your children through a difficult transition.
After the Ansett collapse my carreer choices came down to this or joining Qantas as a second officer. If I had taken the latter I MAY have seen a command again some time in my 50s. It was a VERY tough choice, but I made it and am living with it.
I did not ask Ansett to collapse. I did not ask to be made redundant. I didn`t want the money, I wanted a carreer in my homeland and would have gladly traded.
I agree that the first officers DESERVE a carreer path. Many are well over-due for a command. But a huge tragedy beyond the control of any of us has had a devestating effect on ALL of us.
I take the suggestion that it is more just for an FO to get a seat change in the new company than it is for me to get my JOB back with disbelief and repugnence. If you honsetly put your own asspirations in front of my and my families right to live in our homeland, I consider you utterly selfish.
I challenge any of you to e-mail me directly, with your real name, and explain why I should never be considered for the new Ansett.
Gentlemen. .I am writtimg this from Miyazaki in southern Japan. I have a three year contract with a startup airline. We are optimistic, the company is treating us well, and we have high hopes for a bright future. We are, of course, faced with the uncertainties of life as contract crew .
I have not seen my wife and kids for three weeks and will not for another four. When I do it will be when they arrive in a foreign country where they do not speak the languade. My four-year-old will be faced with attending a pre-school where no-one will understand him or be understood by him. I`m sure he`ll adjust, but as a father it is heartwrenching to know you are putting your children through a difficult transition.
After the Ansett collapse my carreer choices came down to this or joining Qantas as a second officer. If I had taken the latter I MAY have seen a command again some time in my 50s. It was a VERY tough choice, but I made it and am living with it.
I did not ask Ansett to collapse. I did not ask to be made redundant. I didn`t want the money, I wanted a carreer in my homeland and would have gladly traded.
I agree that the first officers DESERVE a carreer path. Many are well over-due for a command. But a huge tragedy beyond the control of any of us has had a devestating effect on ALL of us.
I take the suggestion that it is more just for an FO to get a seat change in the new company than it is for me to get my JOB back with disbelief and repugnence. If you honsetly put your own asspirations in front of my and my families right to live in our homeland, I consider you utterly selfish.
I challenge any of you to e-mail me directly, with your real name, and explain why I should never be considered for the new Ansett.
Nunc est bibendum
Niceone, I assume this was a quote or is it your words? It could read like it was from you and I wasn't sure.
If it was you, email to follow in the next couple of days. If not, give me the guys contact details and I'll email him myself!
Regards
If it was you, email to follow in the next couple of days. If not, give me the guys contact details and I'll email him myself!
Regards