SAFETY
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SAFETY
I fear a looming safety crisis. Most AN piots haven't flown for months. Whatever airline emerges should employ current international pilots as was done in '89 to save the australian economy. What a cross to bear!
Join Date: Aug 2001
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NADS,
I dont believe I read your post properly???
What did I miss?
Since when can any jet driver fire up the engines with being recerted in the SIM?
Do you think a pilots loses all skill and acumen because he hasnt flown for a few weeks??? If that was the case we couldnt and shouldnt let drivers take holidays!!!!!!!!!!!
Regards
100_above
PS... Perhaps I am being stupid in biting your cherry!
I dont believe I read your post properly???
What did I miss?
Since when can any jet driver fire up the engines with being recerted in the SIM?
Do you think a pilots loses all skill and acumen because he hasnt flown for a few weeks??? If that was the case we couldnt and shouldnt let drivers take holidays!!!!!!!!!!!
Regards
100_above
PS... Perhaps I am being stupid in biting your cherry!
PPRuNette
Join Date: Sep 1999
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I personally think the current and future Ansett Safety is inferior.
For instance, the question has to be raised as to the need to implement safety systems following the Christmas 2000 and Easter 2001 767 debacle.
A few months ago, it was a requirement of Casa, and a direct result of negotiations of the 'Show Cause' notice that Ansett tried so desperately, and succesfully, to avoid.
Safety Systems and Compliance was the result. Not restricted to the 767 fleet, however, an entire overview of Ansett's Safety Systems.
And now?
Well, in the words of the leader of the team...
'Safety Systems, as we know it, no longer exists'...
As I said, the question needs to be asked.
I've remained fairly quiet in the last couple of months, and have not really kept up to speed with PPRuNe as regularly as I once used to, entirely due to personal reasons.
However, this is a subject close to home for me, and the feeling of unease that I've had, is just growing and growing.
I'm not going to try and do this article justice by quoting, but I'll try to keep it vaguely close to the truth!
It was an article a few months back in Australian Aviation, I think, and it was titled 'Risky Business' , and basically outlined the 'Safety Versus Dollar' issue.
How easily compromised an Airline becomes when managed for the bottom line first, and safety second, and sometimes even further down the chain of 'priorities'.
Ansett is currently in the hands of Administrators, who step in and run companies, in a fate similars to An's, as their business. They do not know how to run an airline, as their business.
You also only have to look at the majority of 'Management' that has been retained, to know that the same lunatics are still running the assylum.
Personally, I don't think An should have gone into Voluntary Admin, they should have gone into liquidation.
Yeah, as I said, it's just my personal opinion, so please don't beat me up for it
Now, as for these pilots who've not worked for months.....sheesh!! How do you think MOST of them got there in the first place
Cheers
GG
For instance, the question has to be raised as to the need to implement safety systems following the Christmas 2000 and Easter 2001 767 debacle.
A few months ago, it was a requirement of Casa, and a direct result of negotiations of the 'Show Cause' notice that Ansett tried so desperately, and succesfully, to avoid.
Safety Systems and Compliance was the result. Not restricted to the 767 fleet, however, an entire overview of Ansett's Safety Systems.
And now?
Well, in the words of the leader of the team...
'Safety Systems, as we know it, no longer exists'...
As I said, the question needs to be asked.
I've remained fairly quiet in the last couple of months, and have not really kept up to speed with PPRuNe as regularly as I once used to, entirely due to personal reasons.
However, this is a subject close to home for me, and the feeling of unease that I've had, is just growing and growing.
I'm not going to try and do this article justice by quoting, but I'll try to keep it vaguely close to the truth!
It was an article a few months back in Australian Aviation, I think, and it was titled 'Risky Business' , and basically outlined the 'Safety Versus Dollar' issue.
How easily compromised an Airline becomes when managed for the bottom line first, and safety second, and sometimes even further down the chain of 'priorities'.
Ansett is currently in the hands of Administrators, who step in and run companies, in a fate similars to An's, as their business. They do not know how to run an airline, as their business.
You also only have to look at the majority of 'Management' that has been retained, to know that the same lunatics are still running the assylum.
Personally, I don't think An should have gone into Voluntary Admin, they should have gone into liquidation.
Yeah, as I said, it's just my personal opinion, so please don't beat me up for it
Now, as for these pilots who've not worked for months.....sheesh!! How do you think MOST of them got there in the first place
Cheers
GG
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Nice to see you're still around, Go Girl, and in the "midst of it all" to see an unbiased opinion - even tho' you (and Disco) have been directly affected!
That ANY Ansett staff would want to see McMahon back in there, is WAY, WAY beyond MY comprehension. if you want to employ a head-kicker (which is all McMahon is), I'll come and do it for FREE!! And do a BETTER JOB!!
That ANY Ansett staff would want to see McMahon back in there, is WAY, WAY beyond MY comprehension. if you want to employ a head-kicker (which is all McMahon is), I'll come and do it for FREE!! And do a BETTER JOB!!
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Isn't it 35 days?
Big deal.
I've "simulated" with quite a few out of work guys in the last couple of months.
It doesn't take them long to get back in the groove AND in something they've never flown before.
So save that train of thought, nads...
Big deal.
I've "simulated" with quite a few out of work guys in the last couple of months.
It doesn't take them long to get back in the groove AND in something they've never flown before.
So save that train of thought, nads...
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Go Girl
Interesting post. However, enlighten me as to how "most" of us got in, like you would know, I seem to recall you don't even work in aviation (or just are not a pilot?) Entry into AN was the hardest thing I've ever done, not to mention the most rewarding.
Also, in your opinion, AN should have gone into liquidation, not administration. What, are you a big business lawyer? The decision what to place a failing company into isn't entered into lightly and to do the wrong think can carry heavy penalties, including imprisionment. Sure, you can air your opinion like anyone eles and in our free country that is encouraged. But liquidation would have meant the instant loss of my job and that of ALL my collegues. Want to hear my opinion of that?
Interesting post. However, enlighten me as to how "most" of us got in, like you would know, I seem to recall you don't even work in aviation (or just are not a pilot?) Entry into AN was the hardest thing I've ever done, not to mention the most rewarding.
Also, in your opinion, AN should have gone into liquidation, not administration. What, are you a big business lawyer? The decision what to place a failing company into isn't entered into lightly and to do the wrong think can carry heavy penalties, including imprisionment. Sure, you can air your opinion like anyone eles and in our free country that is encouraged. But liquidation would have meant the instant loss of my job and that of ALL my collegues. Want to hear my opinion of that?
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Speaking of safety,when Ansett had all its aircraft on the ground many walking freight said they would never fly on Ansett aircraft because they were not safe.
I wonder if they realise that now when they fly Qantas they can be on ex Ansett aircraft!
I wonder if they realise that now when they fly Qantas they can be on ex Ansett aircraft!
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Ansett has definitely dropped the safety bundle. The first thing to go in hard times is safety and AN has proven this by failing to send the appropriate personnel to recent industry safety forums. Trevor Jenson's speech was read by a lackey at Safeskies and put everyone to sleep. AN people have been noticably absent from all recent safety events and have dropped their support for others.If safety is not being driven from the top it won't happen. I'll still fly on AN but I know things have changed.
PPRuNette
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Bronte, obviously you are someone who thinks they know me.
Well, methinks, if you did, you would have realised that the last para in my previous post was actually very tongue in cheek, and to perhaps spell it out to someone like yourself, it was a direct hit at the amount of time struggling pilots unfortunately DO spend out of work.
Don't even dare give me your bleeding heart story of being fortunate to have a job. For christs sake, my own bloody partner worked for Ansett, as did quite a few friends and family members. Some still have jobs, some don't. And if you think that this was somehow even remotely related to my post, then that is your problem, and dare I say, lack of better understanding of what I actually was getting at.
It seems I'm certainly not the only person who has expressed a safety concern, for the reasons I mentioned in my post, and, others I suspect.
Next time, perhaps don't place such a nasty tone in a post, when there is just absolutely NO need for it.
GoGirl
Well, methinks, if you did, you would have realised that the last para in my previous post was actually very tongue in cheek, and to perhaps spell it out to someone like yourself, it was a direct hit at the amount of time struggling pilots unfortunately DO spend out of work.
Don't even dare give me your bleeding heart story of being fortunate to have a job. For christs sake, my own bloody partner worked for Ansett, as did quite a few friends and family members. Some still have jobs, some don't. And if you think that this was somehow even remotely related to my post, then that is your problem, and dare I say, lack of better understanding of what I actually was getting at.
It seems I'm certainly not the only person who has expressed a safety concern, for the reasons I mentioned in my post, and, others I suspect.
Next time, perhaps don't place such a nasty tone in a post, when there is just absolutely NO need for it.
GoGirl
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Guy's and Girl's,
I cannot believe what I am reading. The very essence of safety relies on us, yes you read right us. It is no good pointing the finger at maintainence, CASA, the CEO, the CFI, the Prime Minister. Do you think ATPL systems is just some fancy subject we can tell our friends about, no it arms us with knowledge so as we, yes we can make the descision whether to fly the thing or not. Our descision! The main point I would like to stress is that of communication, sure you know that subject you may have studied at UNI or year 12 English. If we cannot communicate to each other on a free public forum, so admirably provided by those at PPRUNE, then what hope have we got on the flight deck. What hope have we got of us as Pilots, to communicate breakdowns in the safety department before they reach a News Headline. To stay alive in this game, be honest, communicate, do not push the boundries and keep reading.
As for AN, well it comes down to buisness descisions, CEO>CP>DCP>Pilots, know the chain and know how to gain.
A sound buisness these days relies on honest staff comunicating honest information while the executive structure keep route sectors profitable.
When I first learnt to fly the wife of the CFI, told me this"do not think that this industry owes you a living", how true. Following these guidelines I have never looked back, except to check on the PAX. Have we mentioned them yet, there are an awful lot of angry people who did not receive there goods for the exchange of hard earned cash. They are the ones who really keep all aviation personnell employed, do not ever forget that. We all enjoy providing that service, so next time you see something not right, even if it is the overrun of maintainence release items, communicate this to the chain and get it rectified, do not wait till the buisness collapses.
I cannot believe what I am reading. The very essence of safety relies on us, yes you read right us. It is no good pointing the finger at maintainence, CASA, the CEO, the CFI, the Prime Minister. Do you think ATPL systems is just some fancy subject we can tell our friends about, no it arms us with knowledge so as we, yes we can make the descision whether to fly the thing or not. Our descision! The main point I would like to stress is that of communication, sure you know that subject you may have studied at UNI or year 12 English. If we cannot communicate to each other on a free public forum, so admirably provided by those at PPRUNE, then what hope have we got on the flight deck. What hope have we got of us as Pilots, to communicate breakdowns in the safety department before they reach a News Headline. To stay alive in this game, be honest, communicate, do not push the boundries and keep reading.
As for AN, well it comes down to buisness descisions, CEO>CP>DCP>Pilots, know the chain and know how to gain.
A sound buisness these days relies on honest staff comunicating honest information while the executive structure keep route sectors profitable.
When I first learnt to fly the wife of the CFI, told me this"do not think that this industry owes you a living", how true. Following these guidelines I have never looked back, except to check on the PAX. Have we mentioned them yet, there are an awful lot of angry people who did not receive there goods for the exchange of hard earned cash. They are the ones who really keep all aviation personnell employed, do not ever forget that. We all enjoy providing that service, so next time you see something not right, even if it is the overrun of maintainence release items, communicate this to the chain and get it rectified, do not wait till the buisness collapses.
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Of course safety was being compromised at AN (the groundings!!). But these things are insidious- no-one flicks a switch. It's what happens when disciples of the 'profit culture' move in ie; when a 'safety culture' is viewed as fat and ripe for trimming, or increasingly desperate managers (on performance-linked bonuses) look around for intangibles (safety) to sell before anyone notices vis Aiservices or the State Rail Auth. It seems like a good idea to get rid of the guys who check the tracks, up until the trains start falling off. By then you have had 5 years of 'profit culture' and indoctrination, and those responsible have moved on (where is Chainsaw Dunlap now?).
