Hand Job at Parafield
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Living next door to Alan
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Centaurus, I have to disagree that something has to be "stuffed" to cause someone to hand swing a prop.
What about the early solo student, who on a cold winter's day (batteries aren't so good, then) for whatever reason (let's call it 'poor technique') runs the battery flat while attempting to start the engine. This happens quite regularly and has nothing to do with maintenance.
Instructor goes out and hand swings the prop, and the student is on their way. Thank God for magnetoes!
Now, some of you might say the alternator won't charge. NOT NECESSARILY. An alternator requires significantly less current to excite than what is needed to turn over a starter-motor.
I've swung a few props in my time (never had the guts to do a big 6 however), and the alternator came on line everytime.
Hell, that's how I got my nickname
But that's another story 
You just need to use commonsense and good judgement in deciding whether to swing a prop...
NB I've never swung a prop without someone on the A/C AND with the park brake on AND feet on the brakes AND most importantly a thorough briefing beforehand.
It's as safe or dangerous as you like to make it.......
What about the early solo student, who on a cold winter's day (batteries aren't so good, then) for whatever reason (let's call it 'poor technique') runs the battery flat while attempting to start the engine. This happens quite regularly and has nothing to do with maintenance.
Instructor goes out and hand swings the prop, and the student is on their way. Thank God for magnetoes!
Now, some of you might say the alternator won't charge. NOT NECESSARILY. An alternator requires significantly less current to excite than what is needed to turn over a starter-motor.
I've swung a few props in my time (never had the guts to do a big 6 however), and the alternator came on line everytime.
Hell, that's how I got my nickname
But that's another story You just need to use commonsense and good judgement in deciding whether to swing a prop...
NB I've never swung a prop without someone on the A/C AND with the park brake on AND feet on the brakes AND most importantly a thorough briefing beforehand.
It's as safe or dangerous as you like to make it.......
Interesting points all around. My local friendly airworthiness inspector advises that if the engine will not start due stuffed battery or a technical fault, then by definition this is a "Defect" and as such should be entered into the MR. Then an LAME will investigate and rectify the defect and will sign off the MR clearing the 'defect".
This may involve re-charging or changing the battery or whatever it takes to rectify the defect. It is that simple..
I just shake my head in disbelief at the crass stupidity of those who merrily hand-prop aircraft, unqualified. Does the POH for the Saratoga have a section on hand-propping the aircraft? Same with a C150/C172/Warrior etc? No bloody way it doesn't. Because it is dangerous and reckless practice. -Which is why these aircraft come certified with a starter motor.
It is a brave but foolish CFI that sticks his neck out to sign a pilots log book to the effect that the pilot is certified and found competent to hand-swing aircraft type "X" when the practice is not sanctioned by the manufacturer.
But of course that is neatly side-stepped by ignoring the CASA requirement for a log book entry. Then only the pilot will take the rap, leaving the CFI clean and innocent because he hasn't put his signature to anything, has he?
A lawyer would then ask the question of the CFI at the subsequent coronial inquiry "Where did you get your expertise at hand-swinging a prop on aircraft type"X" when the technique is not covered in the aircraft flight manual or manufacturer's POH?
And if the technique is NOT covered in the POH, how can you certify someone else competent when you are not "qualified" yourself to hand-swing that type?".
Let's not be coy, here. It is all about money and costs, isn't it? Aircraft grounded due crook starter or battery? No problem, men....****** the legalities, stuff the risks involved, CASA will never know etc....just swing that prop and lets get the show on the road and make bucks.
This may involve re-charging or changing the battery or whatever it takes to rectify the defect. It is that simple..
I just shake my head in disbelief at the crass stupidity of those who merrily hand-prop aircraft, unqualified. Does the POH for the Saratoga have a section on hand-propping the aircraft? Same with a C150/C172/Warrior etc? No bloody way it doesn't. Because it is dangerous and reckless practice. -Which is why these aircraft come certified with a starter motor.
It is a brave but foolish CFI that sticks his neck out to sign a pilots log book to the effect that the pilot is certified and found competent to hand-swing aircraft type "X" when the practice is not sanctioned by the manufacturer.
But of course that is neatly side-stepped by ignoring the CASA requirement for a log book entry. Then only the pilot will take the rap, leaving the CFI clean and innocent because he hasn't put his signature to anything, has he?
A lawyer would then ask the question of the CFI at the subsequent coronial inquiry "Where did you get your expertise at hand-swinging a prop on aircraft type"X" when the technique is not covered in the aircraft flight manual or manufacturer's POH?
And if the technique is NOT covered in the POH, how can you certify someone else competent when you are not "qualified" yourself to hand-swing that type?".
Let's not be coy, here. It is all about money and costs, isn't it? Aircraft grounded due crook starter or battery? No problem, men....****** the legalities, stuff the risks involved, CASA will never know etc....just swing that prop and lets get the show on the road and make bucks.
Join Date: Jul 1999
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I have a couple of photos, but cannot copy to here. How do I put htem somewhere to link them, if you want to see them desperatley, email me and I will forward them on
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Ray Dar - if you have the pics hosted on a website, just post the URL here (not as an image link as I did). If you only have the pics in your personal possession then unfortunately email will be the best bet - unless someone hosts them on a website for you...
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Careful McTavish......where do u get your info from buddy??
The Arrow in question (VH-KGP) was being operated by the uni at the time (although they don't own it), and I KNOW for a FACT that the pilot did not wheelbarrow it as you suggested.
Get your facts right first mate.
The Arrow in question (VH-KGP) was being operated by the uni at the time (although they don't own it), and I KNOW for a FACT that the pilot did not wheelbarrow it as you suggested.
Get your facts right first mate.
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Don Quixote Impersonator
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Eeeerk that looks exactly how I ask my butcher to "french" the rack lamb for me. "now is that with mint sauce or gravy sir" 
edited to remove unkind and thoughtless remarks to Lear 23
[ 01 September 2001: Message edited by: gaunty ]
edited to remove unkind and thoughtless remarks to Lear 23
[ 01 September 2001: Message edited by: gaunty ]
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Doh!!
Lucky he didn't aim at BAe, now that would have made a VERY expensive mess!! 25+ machines sitting not very far away.
Poor old U SA, feel sorry for the students, but as has already been said, KARMA. :o
Lucky he didn't aim at BAe, now that would have made a VERY expensive mess!! 25+ machines sitting not very far away.
Poor old U SA, feel sorry for the students, but as has already been said, KARMA. :o
Don Quixote Impersonator
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Interesting pics.
Looking at pattern the prop appeared to be doing precisely what it was designed to do except instead of the medium being air it was aluminium.
ie. pull itself through the medium as a result of the pitch. That is the "pattern" it should/would make.
Looking at pattern the prop appeared to be doing precisely what it was designed to do except instead of the medium being air it was aluminium.
ie. pull itself through the medium as a result of the pitch. That is the "pattern" it should/would make.
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And Gaunty, looking at the spacing of the "incisions", methinks the prop was about 10 deg off the fine pitch stops.
Another 2 deg, and it would have been 'New York' cut, rather than 'French'.
Another 2 deg, and it would have been 'New York' cut, rather than 'French'.
