CRJ's to Ride Again????????????
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CRJ's to Ride Again????????????
Hi all.
"Deepest Throat" <tm> has surfaced again.
In between some almost incoherent mumblings I managed to glean the following rumour..
It appears that some 5-6 CRJ's may be redeployed by Ansett Mark II for MEL-CBR-MEL duties.
In fact I believe I heard him say the TJ was arranging fro them to be added to Ansets's AOC in April!!!!!!!!!!
Let us hope this rumour from Deepest Throat <tm> is true as it would be great to see this wonderful aircraft back in Australian skies with at least some of the Ex Kendall Drivers abck in the cockpit.
HOWEVER, what are implications for Kendall crews given the arrangements for redeploying ex CRJ drivers back to the ranks.........
More updates will follow if Deepest throat does his job!! I only hope that I have interpreted his almost incoherent ramblings correctly.. :-) :-)
Regards to all
100_above
"Deepest Throat" <tm> has surfaced again.
In between some almost incoherent mumblings I managed to glean the following rumour..
It appears that some 5-6 CRJ's may be redeployed by Ansett Mark II for MEL-CBR-MEL duties.
In fact I believe I heard him say the TJ was arranging fro them to be added to Ansets's AOC in April!!!!!!!!!!
Let us hope this rumour from Deepest Throat <tm> is true as it would be great to see this wonderful aircraft back in Australian skies with at least some of the Ex Kendall Drivers abck in the cockpit.
HOWEVER, what are implications for Kendall crews given the arrangements for redeploying ex CRJ drivers back to the ranks.........
More updates will follow if Deepest throat does his job!! I only hope that I have interpreted his almost incoherent ramblings correctly.. :-) :-)
Regards to all
100_above
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Strange too, as there is another thread where Tesna are banning Kendell (and Virgin) from using their Canberra terminal....... <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Why would they be planning on banning Kendell, IF Kendell are to operate flights for them to Canberra...... <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Why would they be planning on banning Kendell, IF Kendell are to operate flights for them to Canberra...... <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
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Greetings and salutations LAME.
BUT I never said that Kendall was going to operate these CRJ's.
I said that about 5-6 CRJ's were going to be added to the Ansett AOC.
Given that Ansett maintains the CRJ simulator in Melbourne on behalf of Flight SAfety International, training is NOT a problem...
Thats why I also pondered wistfully about flight saff at Kendalls with the down training of existing Kendall CRj drivers with the full agreement of the pilots federation...
Regards
!00_above
BUT I never said that Kendall was going to operate these CRJ's.
I said that about 5-6 CRJ's were going to be added to the Ansett AOC.
Given that Ansett maintains the CRJ simulator in Melbourne on behalf of Flight SAfety International, training is NOT a problem...
Thats why I also pondered wistfully about flight saff at Kendalls with the down training of existing Kendall CRj drivers with the full agreement of the pilots federation...
Regards
!00_above
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777,
thanks for your input, BUT am I stupid?????? )Please Please dont answer this!!!!!!!!!! )
When did AN get CRJ Drivers from overseas????
Does this mean you are confirming the rumour?????
Regards
100_above
(Questions....Questions....Always more bloody Questions.. :-) )
[ 22 December 2001: Message edited by: 100_above ]</p>
thanks for your input, BUT am I stupid?????? )Please Please dont answer this!!!!!!!!!! )
When did AN get CRJ Drivers from overseas????
Does this mean you are confirming the rumour?????
Regards
100_above
(Questions....Questions....Always more bloody Questions.. :-) )
[ 22 December 2001: Message edited by: 100_above ]</p>
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AN CRJ pilots quickly showed their allegiances when it all went under-some were seen at APA office and some in the FLT DEPT.
Don`t think they will come back to Kendells.
TJ you may find useful on secondment.
Don`t think they will come back to Kendells.
TJ you may find useful on secondment.
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AN got its 1st CRJ drivers around August/September 1999. i'm not so sure about the date but i know that AN contracted pilots from o/s. well AN wouldn't put a Saab340 driver straight into the left seat of a CRJ.
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100_above,
My apologies, seems I read too much into your original post..... <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
When you said something about it would be good to see some Kendell drivers back in the cockpit, I thought you meant in Kendell aircraft.... <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
IF Ansett (Tesna) will operate these flights, okay, hence the move to ban Kendells from the terminal..... <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
Best regards,
"lame"
My apologies, seems I read too much into your original post..... <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
When you said something about it would be good to see some Kendell drivers back in the cockpit, I thought you meant in Kendell aircraft.... <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
IF Ansett (Tesna) will operate these flights, okay, hence the move to ban Kendells from the terminal..... <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
Best regards,
"lame"
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100_Above:- I believe there may be an answer to your question, in that I know some AN B737/A320 people went across to KD to get them up to speed into the jet age, and I also believe that some CRJ crews were CONTRACTED to KD from, I believe, South Africa for the same duration of time.
In case any KD drivers are reading this, please do not read anything derogatory into my terminology, I just didn't know any other way to describe the situation as I believed it.
If your post about AN returning to the MEL-CBR-MEL route with CRJs is correct, then the sim may be back in useful operation sooner than we thought. I sincerely hope so, it's been sat there too long without a crew!
I know nothing about denial of terminal access, sorry.
Regards to all,
TheNightOwl.
In case any KD drivers are reading this, please do not read anything derogatory into my terminology, I just didn't know any other way to describe the situation as I believed it.
If your post about AN returning to the MEL-CBR-MEL route with CRJs is correct, then the sim may be back in useful operation sooner than we thought. I sincerely hope so, it's been sat there too long without a crew!
I know nothing about denial of terminal access, sorry.
Regards to all,
TheNightOwl.
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surely a logical progression would be CBR-BNE and CBR-SYD on the CRJs as well? Maybe even Tassie ops like in "the good old days"...
Then again, isn't this where the CRJs failed so miserably last time?
Then again, isn't this where the CRJs failed so miserably last time?
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ADL MAN
why did the CRJs fail so miserably in your point of view?
AN/KD is the only airline in the world where these jets failed.
CRJs were the cornerstone of the business recovery program sprouted by management,who to this day have not shown accountability.
Who made the CRJ decision?Are or should they still be in aviation?
why did the CRJs fail so miserably in your point of view?
AN/KD is the only airline in the world where these jets failed.
CRJs were the cornerstone of the business recovery program sprouted by management,who to this day have not shown accountability.
Who made the CRJ decision?Are or should they still be in aviation?
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Bulldog... I don't know why they failed. I flew on them a number of times and found them a wonderful aircraft. The service that KD offered was also superb.
All I can say is that Kendell went downhill once the CRJs arrived and Toomey himself said it was one of Ansett's worst strategic decisions. It was a mystery to me when you consider the success they have had in Europe and the US.
One guess is that the CRJs don't offer business class which into cities such as CBR is important due to the high-yield govt. traffic (esp. on slightly longer routes such as CBR-BNE).
All I can say is that Kendell went downhill once the CRJs arrived and Toomey himself said it was one of Ansett's worst strategic decisions. It was a mystery to me when you consider the success they have had in Europe and the US.
One guess is that the CRJs don't offer business class which into cities such as CBR is important due to the high-yield govt. traffic (esp. on slightly longer routes such as CBR-BNE).
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The name of the game in airline flying is to make money. Not throw it away!!
Fact. KD's CRJ's are on the 'books' for around $22 Million (USD) each.
Fact. KD's CRJ's seat 50 people in a "squeezy" one class configuration and were specified by KD with 'cold galleys' (a world first) and therefore these aircraft have absolutely no appeal to the business market.
Fact. Although the CRJ cruises at Mach 0.82, short stage lengths such as CB-ML or CB-SY(especially with traffic holding at either end) offers very little real-time advantage over a turbo-prop.
Fact. Operating a costly 'newish' jet over very short sectors (with very high relative fuel burns) is a great way to lose a lot of money very quickly.
Fact. Regional jets were most successful in the pre September 11th Northern Hemisphere markets, by replacing over grown turboprop markets (i.e full flights), operating over moderate (150 to 250 NM) to long (400 to 800 NM) stage lengths. Frequently the RJ's enabled conjested 'Hubs' in the USA to be by-passed and enabled "spoke" city pairs to be directly connected by the RJ's.
Fact. Used 737(3 or 400's) can be bought for $4-5 Million (USD) each, come with business class, hot galleys, generous luggage and/or cargo capacity and seat 120 to 140 people. Although the DOC's on these aircraft may be higher than the CRJ, the fixed costs of used Boeings are much lower (the difference between financing $4 Million and $22 Million) and therefore offer very attractive marketing and 'payback' economics.
Finally. Those of you out there that are 'professional' pilots thinks about the realities of aviation economics before submitting your 'posts'.
As ever. The oracle!!
Fact. KD's CRJ's are on the 'books' for around $22 Million (USD) each.
Fact. KD's CRJ's seat 50 people in a "squeezy" one class configuration and were specified by KD with 'cold galleys' (a world first) and therefore these aircraft have absolutely no appeal to the business market.
Fact. Although the CRJ cruises at Mach 0.82, short stage lengths such as CB-ML or CB-SY(especially with traffic holding at either end) offers very little real-time advantage over a turbo-prop.
Fact. Operating a costly 'newish' jet over very short sectors (with very high relative fuel burns) is a great way to lose a lot of money very quickly.
Fact. Regional jets were most successful in the pre September 11th Northern Hemisphere markets, by replacing over grown turboprop markets (i.e full flights), operating over moderate (150 to 250 NM) to long (400 to 800 NM) stage lengths. Frequently the RJ's enabled conjested 'Hubs' in the USA to be by-passed and enabled "spoke" city pairs to be directly connected by the RJ's.
Fact. Used 737(3 or 400's) can be bought for $4-5 Million (USD) each, come with business class, hot galleys, generous luggage and/or cargo capacity and seat 120 to 140 people. Although the DOC's on these aircraft may be higher than the CRJ, the fixed costs of used Boeings are much lower (the difference between financing $4 Million and $22 Million) and therefore offer very attractive marketing and 'payback' economics.
Finally. Those of you out there that are 'professional' pilots thinks about the realities of aviation economics before submitting your 'posts'.
As ever. The oracle!!
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I agree with you ORacle. Lots of emotion not too much finance on these forums. If the CRJ couldnt compete with a 146 pre 11th september what miraculous change has occured since then? Also where exactly are these machines as I flew into MEL on business twice last week and couldnt see any there...
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All the CRJs are parked down at the Melbourne jet base bar one which I think is still in Europe.
There where 19 AN pilots C&T on the CRJ some have left for other jobs so there would be about 15 left on the books. Probably half of these are A320 crew so they would more than likely be required on that aircraft for the start of the new operation.
If the rumour is correct, that the aircraft will go onto the AN MKII register, than as part of the NEW EBA there is a clause that stipulates that previous AN staff will be employed first. This I assume would mean that the KD drivers would have to wait till all the AN crew are employed, the exception may be the KD driver that was a check captain and had endorsement approval, but I suppose they could employ him on a contract basis to avoid the ACTU/EBA wrangle.
KD pilots went into the CRJ left seat from the SAAB and the METRO, this was all done on strict seniority order and AN had no direct say in the matter. There were some early training hickups and that meant 22 (I think) contract pilots were employed (Canadians, Americans, South Africans, South Americans and a couple from Europe) and I think there were about 5 left when the AN Group was placed in administration.
The only suggestion I can make as to why they would now be suitable for AN to operate as opposed to KD is that the AN pay rates will be nowhere near what they where previously.
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
There where 19 AN pilots C&T on the CRJ some have left for other jobs so there would be about 15 left on the books. Probably half of these are A320 crew so they would more than likely be required on that aircraft for the start of the new operation.
If the rumour is correct, that the aircraft will go onto the AN MKII register, than as part of the NEW EBA there is a clause that stipulates that previous AN staff will be employed first. This I assume would mean that the KD drivers would have to wait till all the AN crew are employed, the exception may be the KD driver that was a check captain and had endorsement approval, but I suppose they could employ him on a contract basis to avoid the ACTU/EBA wrangle.
KD pilots went into the CRJ left seat from the SAAB and the METRO, this was all done on strict seniority order and AN had no direct say in the matter. There were some early training hickups and that meant 22 (I think) contract pilots were employed (Canadians, Americans, South Africans, South Americans and a couple from Europe) and I think there were about 5 left when the AN Group was placed in administration.
The only suggestion I can make as to why they would now be suitable for AN to operate as opposed to KD is that the AN pay rates will be nowhere near what they where previously.
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
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My rumours are that it will be set up as a separate company with an oncarriage agreement with Ansett. There will be high frequency service to CBR to begin with. Queenscliff may take up to 20% but it will not be officially a part of Ansett. Will look to employ ex-Ansett jet pilots not taken by the new company along with those who are presently CRJ qualified. Could even look at B737's at some point.
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backspace
pay rates for CRJ captains were appropriate.Ansett pilots would have crewed them for the KD wage as I understand from APAs token efforts.
Can of worms though when KD needed outside help in the form of AN training capts.Nobody would have left for a paycut.Where KD was diddled was when they sent AN F/Os.Wrong background for that operation and my blood boils when I here one in particular skiting about the unforunate number of KD pilots he failed.
Great company and people KD,deserve better.
pay rates for CRJ captains were appropriate.Ansett pilots would have crewed them for the KD wage as I understand from APAs token efforts.
Can of worms though when KD needed outside help in the form of AN training capts.Nobody would have left for a paycut.Where KD was diddled was when they sent AN F/Os.Wrong background for that operation and my blood boils when I here one in particular skiting about the unforunate number of KD pilots he failed.
Great company and people KD,deserve better.
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Oracle - I'm not so sure on the 737-300's for $US4million? I think that you mean 100's surely?
Can't imagine too many Pilot's "volunteering" for the RJ - an A320 type rating would be better value if the airline doesn't survive the pricewar. If there is any truth to this gossip, put the KD lads on - afterall it was their's in the first place.
[ 23 December 2001: Message edited by: rescue 1 ]</p>
Can't imagine too many Pilot's "volunteering" for the RJ - an A320 type rating would be better value if the airline doesn't survive the pricewar. If there is any truth to this gossip, put the KD lads on - afterall it was their's in the first place.
[ 23 December 2001: Message edited by: rescue 1 ]</p>