TESNA CULLS A320 PILOTS
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TESNA CULLS A320 PILOTS
Amongst other things,with the agreement of management and APA,the bottom 5% of A320 pilots to be automatically culled.The basis being simulator scores.
174 out of over 200 expressed interest in the new AN,the other A320 pilots leaving for SQ,SILK,DRAGON,QF,VB,RAAF,EMIRATES etc.Of the remaining 174,some will take VR unsatisfied with the new contract and many more at various stages of interview at perceived greener pastures.
Surge training internally six crews per month.Tesna will be critically short initially.
According to KPMG the Tesna business plan costs retooling of Boeing crew at 75,000 $US(no mention of the 10% failure rate).
History tells us of the CRJ fiasco,cancelled flights due lack of crew,contracted crew,AN training pilots and high attrition to the likes of QF.
If QF took 20 young A320 pilots the CRJ syndrome would return.Mr Dixon has another business opportunity.Maybe there will be a disparity in the number of A320 crew taken on.
174 out of over 200 expressed interest in the new AN,the other A320 pilots leaving for SQ,SILK,DRAGON,QF,VB,RAAF,EMIRATES etc.Of the remaining 174,some will take VR unsatisfied with the new contract and many more at various stages of interview at perceived greener pastures.
Surge training internally six crews per month.Tesna will be critically short initially.
According to KPMG the Tesna business plan costs retooling of Boeing crew at 75,000 $US(no mention of the 10% failure rate).
History tells us of the CRJ fiasco,cancelled flights due lack of crew,contracted crew,AN training pilots and high attrition to the likes of QF.
If QF took 20 young A320 pilots the CRJ syndrome would return.Mr Dixon has another business opportunity.Maybe there will be a disparity in the number of A320 crew taken on.
Nunc est bibendum
It really is win/win for QF on this one isn't it. (And I mean that in a sarcastic inredulous way, not as a slag on AN).
If they take 767 or ex 744 drivers then they cut their own training costs, if they take A320 drivers then they ramp up ANs training costs.
Interesting times!
If they take 767 or ex 744 drivers then they cut their own training costs, if they take A320 drivers then they ramp up ANs training costs.
Interesting times!
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bulldog69,
I have a copy of the agreement in front of me.
What is actually says is,
First, "Pilots with an identified standards issue on file were removed from the available pool."
Then, "Pilots with a standards record indicating that they fell into the bottom five percent across all fleet types were removed from the pool."
It was NOT just the bottom 5% of A320 Pilots, could make a difference.......
Best regards,
"lame"
I have a copy of the agreement in front of me.
What is actually says is,
First, "Pilots with an identified standards issue on file were removed from the available pool."
Then, "Pilots with a standards record indicating that they fell into the bottom five percent across all fleet types were removed from the pool."
It was NOT just the bottom 5% of A320 Pilots, could make a difference.......
Best regards,
"lame"
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
[quote]....with the agreement of management and APA,the bottom 5% of A320 pilots to be automatically culled<hr></blockquote>
Strange, I thought the "P" in APA stood for "pilots".
Obviously NOT!!
Strange, I thought the "P" in APA stood for "pilots".
Obviously NOT!!
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LAME,
could you read the fine print for us because APA wont.
You have good sources.
Kaptain M,
conspiracy theories abound.Pilots have taken a battering compared to others.No transparency and no questions answered by APA.
You must have your own theory though.
could you read the fine print for us because APA wont.
You have good sources.
Kaptain M,
conspiracy theories abound.Pilots have taken a battering compared to others.No transparency and no questions answered by APA.
You must have your own theory though.
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100_above,
I think you will find that is the EBA.
The agreement I was refering to (maybe not the right word) is the one between Tesna and the APA, regarding Pilot Selection Process for the New Ansett.
Best regards,
"lame"
[ 22 December 2001: Message edited by: lame ]</p>
I think you will find that is the EBA.
The agreement I was refering to (maybe not the right word) is the one between Tesna and the APA, regarding Pilot Selection Process for the New Ansett.
Best regards,
"lame"
[ 22 December 2001: Message edited by: lame ]</p>
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bulldog69,
Don't know if I would be able to <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> the line following the two that I quoted before, I don't understand....... <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
"Pilots with an overwhelming management preference to decline employment were removed from the pool".
What does that mean........ <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
IF it means that Pilots who ONLY really wanted a management position OR no position at all? It is a funny way of wording it. Or does it mean something else?... <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Best regards,
"lame"
<img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Don't know if I would be able to <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> the line following the two that I quoted before, I don't understand....... <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
"Pilots with an overwhelming management preference to decline employment were removed from the pool".
What does that mean........ <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
IF it means that Pilots who ONLY really wanted a management position OR no position at all? It is a funny way of wording it. Or does it mean something else?... <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Best regards,
"lame"
<img src="smile.gif" border="0">
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Its a shame that not all Check pilots realise that whatever is put down in writing about a pilots check ride , no matter how trivial or well intentioned(?), can and will (particularly these days) be used against that individual or the company by some unscrupulous type at some time.
Generally, one individual judging anothers performance is a very subjective exercise at the best of times, especially in this business.
Besides rehiring in order of seniority is the only fair way. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Generally, one individual judging anothers performance is a very subjective exercise at the best of times, especially in this business.
Besides rehiring in order of seniority is the only fair way. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
bulldog...sorry mate, I don't usually subscribe to so-called "conspiracy theories". I shall, however, admit to believing that ANY group that overtly professes to represent a specific group of workers (and probably accepts dues from its members), MUST make EVERY effort to retain/obtain the right of employment of ALL of its members.
APA - apparently - is NOT following this basic principle.
EVERYONE has a "bad day" in the sim, and not everyone always sees "eye-to-eye" with the Checkie.
A 'conflict of personality' (and personal interpretation) appears - in this case - to be enough to PERMANENTLY ruin the careers of pilots who would otherwise have been found "acceptable".......had they not been, they would have been assholed!!
APA - apparently - is NOT following this basic principle.
EVERYONE has a "bad day" in the sim, and not everyone always sees "eye-to-eye" with the Checkie.
A 'conflict of personality' (and personal interpretation) appears - in this case - to be enough to PERMANENTLY ruin the careers of pilots who would otherwise have been found "acceptable".......had they not been, they would have been assholed!!
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Hey Bulldog, you sources seem pretty good. Please explain this, "some will take VR unsatisfied with the new contract" What new contract?
Ansett signs deal with unions
Ansett employees who keep their job will maintain current pay rates but will have to work harder for their money.
Five key unions have signed an enterprise agreement with Tesna Pty Ltd, which will take over ownership of Ansett Mark II on February 2.
The company has agreed to keep pay rates on the same level but unions were forced to concede to efficiency changes in staffing and rosters.
The Ansett Start-Up Enterprise Bargaining Agreement was certified by Senior Deputy President Ian Watson in the Australian Industrial Relations Commission (AIRC) this morning.
The Australian Services Union (ASU), Transport Workers Union (TWU) and unions covering engineers, managers, pilots and flight attendants signed the deal.
Key features include:
* a five per cent share of profits and equity for employees;
* a $4.2 million pool from which wage increases will be funded;
* a commitment to guarantee employee entitlements;
* union representation rights;
* and a provision ensuring that employees cannot be required to work unreasonable hours.
I take the above to mean that the pay will be no less than before, or do you know something that no one else does?
Ansett signs deal with unions
Ansett employees who keep their job will maintain current pay rates but will have to work harder for their money.
Five key unions have signed an enterprise agreement with Tesna Pty Ltd, which will take over ownership of Ansett Mark II on February 2.
The company has agreed to keep pay rates on the same level but unions were forced to concede to efficiency changes in staffing and rosters.
The Ansett Start-Up Enterprise Bargaining Agreement was certified by Senior Deputy President Ian Watson in the Australian Industrial Relations Commission (AIRC) this morning.
The Australian Services Union (ASU), Transport Workers Union (TWU) and unions covering engineers, managers, pilots and flight attendants signed the deal.
Key features include:
* a five per cent share of profits and equity for employees;
* a $4.2 million pool from which wage increases will be funded;
* a commitment to guarantee employee entitlements;
* union representation rights;
* and a provision ensuring that employees cannot be required to work unreasonable hours.
I take the above to mean that the pay will be no less than before, or do you know something that no one else does?
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Hey Austin Powers 2 I like those key features but was just wondering how they will:
1. Share out a 5% loss or more
2. Find 4.2mill in a loss for a pay rise
?????????????????
Those A320 pilots crawling over each other for a job will sure need deep pockets because this proposed show will not run at a profit!
Someone told F/L they could make a small fortune out of an "Airline" so they are starting with a large one. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
1. Share out a 5% loss or more
2. Find 4.2mill in a loss for a pay rise
?????????????????
Those A320 pilots crawling over each other for a job will sure need deep pockets because this proposed show will not run at a profit!
Someone told F/L they could make a small fortune out of an "Airline" so they are starting with a large one. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
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FARQ2
think it is profit sharing,not loss sharing.
Regarding A320 pilots crawling over themselves to get a job;as pointed out Tesna will be short,possibly critically if recruitment picks up elsewhere.
Some of the pilots have nowherere to go because of age and other factors but the younger definately have options and are evaluating the opportunities as they arise(despite Sept 11 good jobs on offer).
AUSTIN 2
if your the same Austin that lives down the road you know the new contract is a paycut.
Fair enough but probably not so if other unions are not taking a reduction.
APA leaked a mention of a 25% paycut under the ANSTAFF bid.They may well just have undercut their members,reprehensible I think.
think it is profit sharing,not loss sharing.
Regarding A320 pilots crawling over themselves to get a job;as pointed out Tesna will be short,possibly critically if recruitment picks up elsewhere.
Some of the pilots have nowherere to go because of age and other factors but the younger definately have options and are evaluating the opportunities as they arise(despite Sept 11 good jobs on offer).
AUSTIN 2
if your the same Austin that lives down the road you know the new contract is a paycut.
Fair enough but probably not so if other unions are not taking a reduction.
APA leaked a mention of a 25% paycut under the ANSTAFF bid.They may well just have undercut their members,reprehensible I think.
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LAME'
"Pilot's with an overwhelming managment preference to decline employment were removed from the pool"
A few of us were chewing the fat over that one last night,and came to the conclusion that it was refering to Pilot's (probably A-320 ones' in particular) who have had a gut full and just want to go.They filled out redundancy they didn't fill out the EOI,They just want out.However, they won't resign,they want the package.So wethinks that strange inclusion refers to these folk.
Without saying to much,we've heard of a little nasty coming up regarding basings.If it is true, I know some guy's affected will only hang around long enough to go somewhere else.
[ 23 December 2001: Message edited by: Thumbs up ]
[ 23 December 2001: Message edited by: Thumbs up ]</p>
"Pilot's with an overwhelming managment preference to decline employment were removed from the pool"
A few of us were chewing the fat over that one last night,and came to the conclusion that it was refering to Pilot's (probably A-320 ones' in particular) who have had a gut full and just want to go.They filled out redundancy they didn't fill out the EOI,They just want out.However, they won't resign,they want the package.So wethinks that strange inclusion refers to these folk.
Without saying to much,we've heard of a little nasty coming up regarding basings.If it is true, I know some guy's affected will only hang around long enough to go somewhere else.
[ 23 December 2001: Message edited by: Thumbs up ]
[ 23 December 2001: Message edited by: Thumbs up ]</p>
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LAME and ThumbsUp,
My interpretation of "Pilot's with an overwhelming managment preference to decline employment were removed from the pool" is entirely different.
I think what was intended is that those pilots whom Management disliked or otherwise deemed unsuitable for employment with TESNA were removed from the pool.
My interpretation of "Pilot's with an overwhelming managment preference to decline employment were removed from the pool" is entirely different.
I think what was intended is that those pilots whom Management disliked or otherwise deemed unsuitable for employment with TESNA were removed from the pool.
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Well said Thumbs_up, spot on I think. What I can not understand is why "The Management" are intent on screwing the Pilot's. Maybe someone in management, alleged by some to be the the man from "Q" is responsible. (not Gary BTW) Maybe "Q" is trying to earn some browny points with FLEW. Bad choice, A320 Pilot's are leaving in large numbers, the ones that stay will shoot through in ever increasing numbers as things pick up offshore. AN MK3 will be a training ground for other airlines. I thought that most of the management had returned to their old jobs in the fruit and vegie section at woolies, apparently not!
Evertonian
Interesting point keg.
QF could also find themselves with ready made A330 crews who need only a few weeks conversion training!! <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> Wouldn't that go down a treat at QF!!!!
QF could also find themselves with ready made A330 crews who need only a few weeks conversion training!! <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> Wouldn't that go down a treat at QF!!!!
