News: Toomey steps down
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Around & About
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Night0wl here's a list of your fellow countrymen you can trust;
Skase, Bond, Holmes a' Court, Hawke, Abels, Kelly (Ned) I could go on but the latest is this joker Hart as reported in today's NZ Herald Business section
NZ Herald Business Section 10/10/01
Real trustworthy don't you think?
Skase, Bond, Holmes a' Court, Hawke, Abels, Kelly (Ned) I could go on but the latest is this joker Hart as reported in today's NZ Herald Business section
NZ Herald Business Section 10/10/01
Real trustworthy don't you think?
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: On the crapper
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Girt-bar
Having re-read my post,I take your point on the perceived contradiction.
I should have specified that the sheep-rooting government, finance minister and bumbling leader were the final nail in the coffin for both airlines in their previous forms. I also think their accountibility is beyond dispute. They meddled in the attempts of the Board and CEO to revive the company until it was too late.
Now they have reaped what they have sown.
And Anderson is also to blame. What a two faced ring-bone!
I think, however, the final approval of the AirNZ-Ansett Group refinancing (regardless of Anderson's lobbying) was up to the government. If they'd acted sooner or approved the SIA equity increase, no-one (government, shareholders, or employees) would be in this mess.
Having re-read my post,I take your point on the perceived contradiction.
I should have specified that the sheep-rooting government, finance minister and bumbling leader were the final nail in the coffin for both airlines in their previous forms. I also think their accountibility is beyond dispute. They meddled in the attempts of the Board and CEO to revive the company until it was too late.
Now they have reaped what they have sown.
And Anderson is also to blame. What a two faced ring-bone!
I think, however, the final approval of the AirNZ-Ansett Group refinancing (regardless of Anderson's lobbying) was up to the government. If they'd acted sooner or approved the SIA equity increase, no-one (government, shareholders, or employees) would be in this mess.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 84
Posts: 492
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SKOL:- About what I'd expect, mindless drivel. "Piggy" never made an observation in his life that wasn't written in block capitals for him by someone with a brain.
C.Ka:- Yes, I'm an Aussie, and I'm delighted to stay on my side of the Tasman, I have no desire to cross to The Land Of The Long White Shroud. I notice this is your first post, let's hope for some improvement in subsequent ones. As for QF, tell them you want them out. I'm with AN, have been for twenty years, hence my bitterness at our treatment at the hands of your inept mob. As far as I'm concerned, QF can stay in NZ, who knows, an alliance between your two airlines would suit the pair of you, just leave AN alone, we can't afford you.
edster: I agree, I read it a long time ago, the usual defence of the indefensible, "blame the crew, they can't deny it".
Kind regards to all,
TheNightOwl.
C.Ka:- Yes, I'm an Aussie, and I'm delighted to stay on my side of the Tasman, I have no desire to cross to The Land Of The Long White Shroud. I notice this is your first post, let's hope for some improvement in subsequent ones. As for QF, tell them you want them out. I'm with AN, have been for twenty years, hence my bitterness at our treatment at the hands of your inept mob. As far as I'm concerned, QF can stay in NZ, who knows, an alliance between your two airlines would suit the pair of you, just leave AN alone, we can't afford you.
edster: I agree, I read it a long time ago, the usual defence of the indefensible, "blame the crew, they can't deny it".
Kind regards to all,
TheNightOwl.
The Original Party Animal
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Around the corner
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A very valid point, pmacp!
One can only wonder, why AN got grounded just before Xmas and just before Easter.
If you consider the usually very efficient Qantas lobbying...
One can only wonder, why AN got grounded just before Xmas and just before Easter.
If you consider the usually very efficient Qantas lobbying...
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Sydney
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SKOL,
you nasty so and so.He may have had 20yrs in AN in any number of positions.
Waiting patiently for your humble apology.
Would love to denigrate into an Oz/Kiwi slanging match but.........
you nasty so and so.He may have had 20yrs in AN in any number of positions.
Waiting patiently for your humble apology.
Would love to denigrate into an Oz/Kiwi slanging match but.........
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Around & About
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
B69 let's have Nightowl's explanation instead of your 'may have's'. Then we'll see about apologies or other wise.
SKOL keep up the good work buddy. Did you note how quick Boeing Belly was to deny pre-conditioning his dinner? Bit suspicious I reckon.
SKOL keep up the good work buddy. Did you note how quick Boeing Belly was to deny pre-conditioning his dinner? Bit suspicious I reckon.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Around & About
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Um Spud take your point but just had a quick review of the thread and, as is usual I'm afraid, the slanging starts in Oz (this time) with stupid descriptions of the NZ Government which I believe insult us all. Skol & I just respond in kind, maybe up the ante a bit, but I don't think we've been aced yet.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 84
Posts: 492
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SKOL & RUTB:- Sorry, fellas, I am not, nor ever have been, nor ever will be a pilot. If I were forty years younger, knowing what I have known for a long time, there is no other occupation I would consider. I have been in aviation, both military and civil, since 1960, and loved almost every minute of my working life. The only major downsides have been the 1989 debacle, in which I was an interested and affected observer, and the past couple of years since AirNZ came on the AN scene.
If you want to verify my bona fides, post a request to Blue Sky Baron, GoGirl or Disco Stu, I'm sure they will vouch for me.
My only interest, at present, is seeing the airline where I have spent almost twenty years of my life resurrected to a dignified standard so that we can get back to what we do best, keeping our customers happy,
I rest my case,
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
If you want to verify my bona fides, post a request to Blue Sky Baron, GoGirl or Disco Stu, I'm sure they will vouch for me.
My only interest, at present, is seeing the airline where I have spent almost twenty years of my life resurrected to a dignified standard so that we can get back to what we do best, keeping our customers happy,
I rest my case,
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Around & About
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NightOwl I apologise that the thought even crossed my mind then, I'd be offended, make no mistake.
However, as SKOL pointed out, this is a pilot's network and therefore a fair assumption to make.
SKOL... get on with it lad!
However, as SKOL pointed out, this is a pilot's network and therefore a fair assumption to make.
SKOL... get on with it lad!
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Front Seat
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have read these and other comments over the last few months with some real amazement at the lack of intelligence and objectivity. To a great extent, the comments have said more about the individuals concerned rather than the topics discussed.
I am a Kiwi. I certainly identify blame on this side of the Tasman. And that is primarily at the political level. If this inept government had allowed a private company to make its own decisions, we would not be in the horrible mess we now find ourselves. I am incensed as a tax payer to have to bail out a private company but in the end they had no option. But this situation was brought about by its own political dogma and lack of commercial experience. By the same token, the Australian government have a lot to answer for. They prevented Air NZ from setting up in Australia despite the fact that Ansett had set up in NZ. They forced the other option of the Ansett purchase. This was to protect QF as that airline came up to privitisation. Why did Casa ground AN just before Xmas and Easter? They found nothing to substantiate their action. A crippling decision for AN. Once again political manouevering to protect QF. There is more to be written than I have space for here, but those who think deeply about the issue with some objectivity will know all the other factors involved.
I congratulate phugmeded. He is the only one from Oz that has shown any sense of reality in the whole situation.
As for the future, I hope that Ansett gets up and going again. Without that outcome, QF will rule the skies and the Australian public will suffer for the lack of competition. Once AN gets back on its feet, it will need allies from the outside world. Air NZ and the Star Alliance are still the best option, despite what has happened.
By all means debate this issue. But do yourself some credit by using intelligence.
I am a Kiwi. I certainly identify blame on this side of the Tasman. And that is primarily at the political level. If this inept government had allowed a private company to make its own decisions, we would not be in the horrible mess we now find ourselves. I am incensed as a tax payer to have to bail out a private company but in the end they had no option. But this situation was brought about by its own political dogma and lack of commercial experience. By the same token, the Australian government have a lot to answer for. They prevented Air NZ from setting up in Australia despite the fact that Ansett had set up in NZ. They forced the other option of the Ansett purchase. This was to protect QF as that airline came up to privitisation. Why did Casa ground AN just before Xmas and Easter? They found nothing to substantiate their action. A crippling decision for AN. Once again political manouevering to protect QF. There is more to be written than I have space for here, but those who think deeply about the issue with some objectivity will know all the other factors involved.
I congratulate phugmeded. He is the only one from Oz that has shown any sense of reality in the whole situation.
As for the future, I hope that Ansett gets up and going again. Without that outcome, QF will rule the skies and the Australian public will suffer for the lack of competition. Once AN gets back on its feet, it will need allies from the outside world. Air NZ and the Star Alliance are still the best option, despite what has happened.
By all means debate this issue. But do yourself some credit by using intelligence.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Qld Aust
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Baldingeagle
Thank you for probably the best post I have seen on this matter from either side of the Tasman. I like you believe that if the clowns in both governments had stayed away the Ansett/AirNZ combination would still be there. When our Minister for QANTAS and his boss (Mr Dixon) got together and convinced the NZ government to form a committee to look into the SIA deal it was a typical stalling tatic by the OZ government as we all know how many months it takes just to form the committee without it even getting together to even have a meeting. They knew time was on their side as every day was to see more and more dollars down the drain. The Aust PM and the Minister for Qantas are continuing to do their absolute best to make sure Ansett II does not get established as even yesterday the said Min for QF advised possible AN pax that they should seriously consider whether to book with AN. Lets face it this government will do everything in its power to make sure AN and its 16000 staff go to the wall. As you said we have seen AN collapse and NZ teetering due to clowns that we elected. I am sure that QF see themselves as the "El Supremo" of this part of the world and they will crush everyone in their way including Air NZ(with the assistance of favours from politians) One thing I will give the NZ government is at least they had the guts to do the right thing and save their carrier which is more than this bunch of clowns will do.
Thanks for your post.
Thank you for probably the best post I have seen on this matter from either side of the Tasman. I like you believe that if the clowns in both governments had stayed away the Ansett/AirNZ combination would still be there. When our Minister for QANTAS and his boss (Mr Dixon) got together and convinced the NZ government to form a committee to look into the SIA deal it was a typical stalling tatic by the OZ government as we all know how many months it takes just to form the committee without it even getting together to even have a meeting. They knew time was on their side as every day was to see more and more dollars down the drain. The Aust PM and the Minister for Qantas are continuing to do their absolute best to make sure Ansett II does not get established as even yesterday the said Min for QF advised possible AN pax that they should seriously consider whether to book with AN. Lets face it this government will do everything in its power to make sure AN and its 16000 staff go to the wall. As you said we have seen AN collapse and NZ teetering due to clowns that we elected. I am sure that QF see themselves as the "El Supremo" of this part of the world and they will crush everyone in their way including Air NZ(with the assistance of favours from politians) One thing I will give the NZ government is at least they had the guts to do the right thing and save their carrier which is more than this bunch of clowns will do.
Thanks for your post.
The Original Party Animal
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Around the corner
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Baldingeagle, Pole Vaulter,
You hit the nail on the head. At last we seem to reach a reasonable level of discussion concerning the Ansett demise. I'm absolutely convinced that Qantas and their successful lobbying played a decisive role in this hole mess (as you mentioned, grounding of AN aircraft just before Xmas and Easter, and Qantas minister John Anderson's dubious role).
However, Qantas will not succeed to push VB out the market, Branson's got simply too much money. At least there's light on the horizon...
You hit the nail on the head. At last we seem to reach a reasonable level of discussion concerning the Ansett demise. I'm absolutely convinced that Qantas and their successful lobbying played a decisive role in this hole mess (as you mentioned, grounding of AN aircraft just before Xmas and Easter, and Qantas minister John Anderson's dubious role).
However, Qantas will not succeed to push VB out the market, Branson's got simply too much money. At least there's light on the horizon...
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: On the crapper
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Baldingeagle and Spuds,
Thanks for the sensible posts. I was wondering why I'd bothered to enter the debate after discovering the low standard this thread had reached. Seems all roads lead to '89 for some. Let's hope some more sensible debate or comment will be forthcoming.
Thanks for the sensible posts. I was wondering why I'd bothered to enter the debate after discovering the low standard this thread had reached. Seems all roads lead to '89 for some. Let's hope some more sensible debate or comment will be forthcoming.