Why Give Ansett Crews Such Preferential Treatment
short flights long nights
SPAD, you are my man!!! You are so correct, and as I have said on other posts before... its 12 years on, and we are out here to help, to help those that need the help. But 12 years ago, I (and we) had nothing, no one helped us, all anyone did that was then employed in an airline in Australia, was to hope daily for our mass demise.
But we went on, and a lot have prospered, and have after so many years become something other than little baby FOs. And this is what our hero freinds at AN seem to miss at times, they may think of ??????, and know that he wasnt a hero, but who cares, because old ?????? was just some stupid F/O.
Trouble is, like the heros keep saying, its 12 years on, and lots of those stupid F/Os (like me) are now vey senior captains in their airline (like me) and sitting on interview panels (like me)
But we went on, and a lot have prospered, and have after so many years become something other than little baby FOs. And this is what our hero freinds at AN seem to miss at times, they may think of ??????, and know that he wasnt a hero, but who cares, because old ?????? was just some stupid F/O.
Trouble is, like the heros keep saying, its 12 years on, and lots of those stupid F/Os (like me) are now vey senior captains in their airline (like me) and sitting on interview panels (like me)
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Many AN captains now being knocked on the head at the application stage by SQ.Is this the present deteriorating environment at play or others?
Also of interest,a colleague exAN just received a letter back from QF stating preferential & priority consideration.Read the last carefully.....consideration.The huge volume of interest was also mentioned,a consequential delay in processing.
The above are facts for the interest of the forum,I have not endorsed or supported any of the policies in question.So please direct vitriolic comments to the institutions and parties,not me!
Also of interest,a colleague exAN just received a letter back from QF stating preferential & priority consideration.Read the last carefully.....consideration.The huge volume of interest was also mentioned,a consequential delay in processing.
The above are facts for the interest of the forum,I have not endorsed or supported any of the policies in question.So please direct vitriolic comments to the institutions and parties,not me!
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A couple of thoughts on this thread.
First: there is a wealth of experience out here in the real world that can help any genuine applicants with good track records to find decent jobs. A thread on this theme would be good value. Since 1989 a lot of former Australian airline pilots crawled up very steep learning curves to fly all sorts of machines in all sorts of places and conditions. Many of those places involved weather and flying situations where being the world’s second best anything was no help. Being a skilful pilot with flexibility, confidence, reliability, commitment and good CRM were (and are!) the keys. So there is help out there for those who meet those qualifications and want a fresh start away from the blinkered incestuous cosseted aviation world in Australia. Others please don’t muddy the waters for the rest of us who have no other place to go and no years of good salaries at home to fall back on.
Second: as ex-AN pilots look around for work and wonder about fairness and equity, remember that out there in the boondocks are some guys who never did land quality airline jobs post 1989 because of a harshly applied BLACKLIST against those from a particular aviation union. Not quite ethnic cleansing of the ideologically unsound but close enough for a photo finish. Those guys deserve a fair go and remembrance that they haven’t had a fair go since 1989. Some regional drivers weren’t even part of the Dispute, just ordinary card-carrying union members who didn’t want to cross someone else’s picket line.
Having said all of the above let’s remember that competition creates jobs; it doesn’t destroy them. High costs (hence high ticket prices) pre AN’s crash meant that traffic growth was lower than it might have been. Lower costs in the future will mean more growth and more jobs in the long run. Yes it might be a long wait. Others have survived that wait and lived. Mow grass, tend a bar, drive a taxi. It’s been done.
Just remember while you’re building a (temporary) alternate profession that had the then (Hawke/Keating) pro-Ansett governments supported either Compass 1 or 2 to keep going even for a few weeks while alternate financing was arranged then genuine industry restructuring would have got underway much earlier and maybe, just maybe, we wouldn’t have the spectacle of our senior politicians running to Singapore hoping that SIA could tell us how to run an airline.
Safe flying wherever you end up.
Sherm
First: there is a wealth of experience out here in the real world that can help any genuine applicants with good track records to find decent jobs. A thread on this theme would be good value. Since 1989 a lot of former Australian airline pilots crawled up very steep learning curves to fly all sorts of machines in all sorts of places and conditions. Many of those places involved weather and flying situations where being the world’s second best anything was no help. Being a skilful pilot with flexibility, confidence, reliability, commitment and good CRM were (and are!) the keys. So there is help out there for those who meet those qualifications and want a fresh start away from the blinkered incestuous cosseted aviation world in Australia. Others please don’t muddy the waters for the rest of us who have no other place to go and no years of good salaries at home to fall back on.
Second: as ex-AN pilots look around for work and wonder about fairness and equity, remember that out there in the boondocks are some guys who never did land quality airline jobs post 1989 because of a harshly applied BLACKLIST against those from a particular aviation union. Not quite ethnic cleansing of the ideologically unsound but close enough for a photo finish. Those guys deserve a fair go and remembrance that they haven’t had a fair go since 1989. Some regional drivers weren’t even part of the Dispute, just ordinary card-carrying union members who didn’t want to cross someone else’s picket line.
Having said all of the above let’s remember that competition creates jobs; it doesn’t destroy them. High costs (hence high ticket prices) pre AN’s crash meant that traffic growth was lower than it might have been. Lower costs in the future will mean more growth and more jobs in the long run. Yes it might be a long wait. Others have survived that wait and lived. Mow grass, tend a bar, drive a taxi. It’s been done.
Just remember while you’re building a (temporary) alternate profession that had the then (Hawke/Keating) pro-Ansett governments supported either Compass 1 or 2 to keep going even for a few weeks while alternate financing was arranged then genuine industry restructuring would have got underway much earlier and maybe, just maybe, we wouldn’t have the spectacle of our senior politicians running to Singapore hoping that SIA could tell us how to run an airline.
Safe flying wherever you end up.
Sherm
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1013.
While basking in the glory of having a favourable vote from the Lower Eltham Presbetarian Mothers Club,(second safest airline in the lower Yarra valley), you might care to contemplate the fate of the following aircraft. AET, BZA, TVC, FNH, RMI, FNE, NEY. All ANSETT and all write offs, with considerable loss of life. You might also remember that in the first few weeks of the 747 operation ANSETT had a sucess ratio similar to that of the U-boat fleet in ww2. Lets not forget the various indiscretions such as the 727 fire and evac in Rocky ( or was it MKY) and the 767 with the gear protruding from the upper surfaces in MEL (or SYD) and then again the 146 that tried to take the top off a hill in Hamilton Island in late '89 or early 90. Need I go on.
In this new world where hopefully you will have to go ferreting for alternative employment overseas, you will find that there is a big wide world out there with many airlines that have a record equal or better than that of Ansett and the world's number one QANTAS. Indeed you may even discover that outside of the western Pac rim Ansett is virtually unknown. You will do yourself a big favour if you would get rid of your holier than thou attitude and pay a little less attention to your own publicity.
Then again if you are a hero, keep it up, as it will most assuredly secure your future, to everyone else's benefit.
ANSeTT was a sick puppy that should have been allowed to pass away 10/11 years ago. To prop it up now with public funding through government guarantees and the ANSETT tax levy on tickets of legitimate operators is an obscenity.
The Guzzler
While basking in the glory of having a favourable vote from the Lower Eltham Presbetarian Mothers Club,(second safest airline in the lower Yarra valley), you might care to contemplate the fate of the following aircraft. AET, BZA, TVC, FNH, RMI, FNE, NEY. All ANSETT and all write offs, with considerable loss of life. You might also remember that in the first few weeks of the 747 operation ANSETT had a sucess ratio similar to that of the U-boat fleet in ww2. Lets not forget the various indiscretions such as the 727 fire and evac in Rocky ( or was it MKY) and the 767 with the gear protruding from the upper surfaces in MEL (or SYD) and then again the 146 that tried to take the top off a hill in Hamilton Island in late '89 or early 90. Need I go on.
In this new world where hopefully you will have to go ferreting for alternative employment overseas, you will find that there is a big wide world out there with many airlines that have a record equal or better than that of Ansett and the world's number one QANTAS. Indeed you may even discover that outside of the western Pac rim Ansett is virtually unknown. You will do yourself a big favour if you would get rid of your holier than thou attitude and pay a little less attention to your own publicity.
Then again if you are a hero, keep it up, as it will most assuredly secure your future, to everyone else's benefit.
ANSeTT was a sick puppy that should have been allowed to pass away 10/11 years ago. To prop it up now with public funding through government guarantees and the ANSETT tax levy on tickets of legitimate operators is an obscenity.
The Guzzler
Nunc est bibendum
Just thought I would clarify something from the original post.
AN pilots do not get priority of employment with QF. They will get priority when being scheduled to do the pysch/sim/interview etc.
After that they are in the pile with everyone else. It is still possible for the 500hr GA jock to beat a 10'000hr AN jet jockey to a job as a S/O with QF.
Have a nice day. See if this drags us back to the original topic instead of degenerating into another '89 thread!!
AN pilots do not get priority of employment with QF. They will get priority when being scheduled to do the pysch/sim/interview etc.
After that they are in the pile with everyone else. It is still possible for the 500hr GA jock to beat a 10'000hr AN jet jockey to a job as a S/O with QF.
Have a nice day. See if this drags us back to the original topic instead of degenerating into another '89 thread!!
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I say again - overpaid!
Documents obtained by The Press show its workers were among the best rewarded in Australia. Its pilots cost $NZ91 million a year; Air NZ pilots flying the same routes and the same hours would have cost $58 million.
Particularly expensive were the company's Boeing 737 pilots – also the mainstay of the Ansett fleet. An Ansett Boeing 737 captain flying 70 hours a month (the industry norm) earned $NZ112,000 more than the New Zealand counterpart; an Ansett 767 captain earned $98,000 more, and a 747 captain $75,000 more. Over all, Ansett's fleet of 25 Boeing 737s cost the company 32 per cent more to fly than if Air NZ pilots had been in the cockpit.
Documents obtained by The Press show its workers were among the best rewarded in Australia. Its pilots cost $NZ91 million a year; Air NZ pilots flying the same routes and the same hours would have cost $58 million.
Particularly expensive were the company's Boeing 737 pilots – also the mainstay of the Ansett fleet. An Ansett Boeing 737 captain flying 70 hours a month (the industry norm) earned $NZ112,000 more than the New Zealand counterpart; an Ansett 767 captain earned $98,000 more, and a 747 captain $75,000 more. Over all, Ansett's fleet of 25 Boeing 737s cost the company 32 per cent more to fly than if Air NZ pilots had been in the cockpit.
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So let me get this right...
If I am QF regional pilot, paying my taxes, and working ever harder. Then not only do I need to watch my money being squandered on KD services with 1 or 2 pax (into communities already being adequately serviced) but I also have to sit back and watch the pollies wheel and deal under the table with QF to "accomodate the employees of an Australian icon" to further diminish my already slim chances of a slot in mainline.
I feel the utmost sorrow for friends that arent working at the moment but after 3 layoffs due company insolvency, Im anxious to know where my assistance was!!
If I am QF regional pilot, paying my taxes, and working ever harder. Then not only do I need to watch my money being squandered on KD services with 1 or 2 pax (into communities already being adequately serviced) but I also have to sit back and watch the pollies wheel and deal under the table with QF to "accomodate the employees of an Australian icon" to further diminish my already slim chances of a slot in mainline.
I feel the utmost sorrow for friends that arent working at the moment but after 3 layoffs due company insolvency, Im anxious to know where my assistance was!!
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Casper
Your statistics do not tell the whole story.
A very senior Air NZ management capt who is a friend of mine even agrees that although we here in oz are paid more per annum the productivity is much greater. The 89 dispute allowed the company to implement a contract for all of those new employees whereby crews could do a lot more flying than Air NZ pilots are allowed too. He had a good look at this area & his final comment was ............."AN needs less pilots to meet the schedule / roster requirements than we do which makes pilot costs aprox the same for both companies"
Your statistics do not tell the whole story.
A very senior Air NZ management capt who is a friend of mine even agrees that although we here in oz are paid more per annum the productivity is much greater. The 89 dispute allowed the company to implement a contract for all of those new employees whereby crews could do a lot more flying than Air NZ pilots are allowed too. He had a good look at this area & his final comment was ............."AN needs less pilots to meet the schedule / roster requirements than we do which makes pilot costs aprox the same for both companies"
