Breakthough!!! KD/AN now to include Agents in the loop!
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MOREE, NSW, Oct 11 AAP - Transport Minister John Anderson said
today ticket sales for Ansett were not as strong as he had hoped.
Mr Anderson, campaigning in his New South Wales electorate of
Gwydir, said global aviation faced massive problems which were not
helping efforts to keep Ansett afloat.
The government is guaranteeing the ticket sales for Ansett for
three months until mid December in a bid to keep the airline
afloat.
But Mr Anderson said he had hoped ticket sales would be
stronger.
"I am concerned that not enough people are flying Ansett to
really make it hum," he told journalists.
"(Ticket sales) are not as strong as we would like."
Mr Anderson again rejected suggestions the government was trying
to undermine Ansett administrator's efforts to use the $150 million
paid to them by Air New Zealand.
He said the government has a right to protect the interests of
workers and taxpayers rather than throw money into a possibly
uncommercial option.
"If the right and proper and most sensible thing is in a
hard-nosed, commercial way to maximise the value of the company and
therefore the prospects of a good outcome for Ansett workers,
fine," he said.
"What we do not want to see and what we want to deliberately
counter is the idea still rampant in some quarters that you can
float an airline running the way the old Ansett did."
AAP
today ticket sales for Ansett were not as strong as he had hoped.
Mr Anderson, campaigning in his New South Wales electorate of
Gwydir, said global aviation faced massive problems which were not
helping efforts to keep Ansett afloat.
The government is guaranteeing the ticket sales for Ansett for
three months until mid December in a bid to keep the airline
afloat.
But Mr Anderson said he had hoped ticket sales would be
stronger.
"I am concerned that not enough people are flying Ansett to
really make it hum," he told journalists.
"(Ticket sales) are not as strong as we would like."
Mr Anderson again rejected suggestions the government was trying
to undermine Ansett administrator's efforts to use the $150 million
paid to them by Air New Zealand.
He said the government has a right to protect the interests of
workers and taxpayers rather than throw money into a possibly
uncommercial option.
"If the right and proper and most sensible thing is in a
hard-nosed, commercial way to maximise the value of the company and
therefore the prospects of a good outcome for Ansett workers,
fine," he said.
"What we do not want to see and what we want to deliberately
counter is the idea still rampant in some quarters that you can
float an airline running the way the old Ansett did."
AAP
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You are so so right Bluebottle - CX went thoroughly through the AN books and figures - took a week to do it and stated that to have any chance of being viable that total staff numbers would be 8,000 to a max of 10,000 assuming they were running the full route structure. A little short of the total affected.
On our side of the fence, I have it from numerous reliable sources (far too numerous and reliable for my liking) that many agents are within weeks of doing a wheels up.
There is just no VFR or holiday traffic out there - thankfully we are mainly corporate and OK - but the shake out from Kiwigate is just beginning.
Expect a lot of vacant shops in shopping centres sooner rather than later. The next IATA-BSP automatic withdrawral or not) from their bank accounts will tell the tale.
I know of 2 out of 6 here - possibly 3 that are at risk of hitting the glass mountain.
The situation appears to be far far worse in QLD NSW and VIC.
Believe me - our safe position is good luck - not good management.
Touch wood!!
Best all
EWL
On our side of the fence, I have it from numerous reliable sources (far too numerous and reliable for my liking) that many agents are within weeks of doing a wheels up.
There is just no VFR or holiday traffic out there - thankfully we are mainly corporate and OK - but the shake out from Kiwigate is just beginning.
Expect a lot of vacant shops in shopping centres sooner rather than later. The next IATA-BSP automatic withdrawral or not) from their bank accounts will tell the tale.
I know of 2 out of 6 here - possibly 3 that are at risk of hitting the glass mountain.
The situation appears to be far far worse in QLD NSW and VIC.
Believe me - our safe position is good luck - not good management.
Touch wood!!
Best all
EWL
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EWL
While I agree that AN MK2 will alway be behind the 8ball until agents are back in the loop I don't think many have the same parochial loyalty you obviously do. There are lot of people, agents, support companies and corporate clients who have been burnt as well as the joe public who do not agree and even resent the actions of AN MK1 staff, the ACTU and cronies, demanding they get "rescued" or 100% entitlements.
Don't forget that these staff are/were on packages and had benefits that those in the support workforce could only dream about. This is not referring to the aircrew but the customer service, reservations and baggage handlers who are no more qualified than your staff or mine.
You speak of agencies about to hit the "glass mountain" Do you support a bail out by the TCF for them on top of the millions to be covered due the abdication of responsibility by the administrators of the Ansett owned Traveland group? Should the $150,000,000 sweetner given by ANZ to the administrators be used to carry AN MK2 on over what only will ever be cherry picked routes or to cover the debts owed by AN including firstly that owed to regional agencies who handled AN and partners who have not been paid for months and are unlikely to see their return (even if they wanted them) and then the public who are out of pocket because the trusted that AN would always be there and finally the employee entitlements.
I see no one pounding the desk for the renumeration (more than entitlements) of costs by support companies or to cover the wages their employees have lost -much smaller as a rule than the ex-AN staff packages.
I am sorry for all the AN employees and their families but their 16,000 in number is but a drop in the ocean compared to the other affected employees and creditors not being fought for and from the facts covered in these debates to date there were just a few too many with unbelievable work practises.
Finally I agree, the safe position you mention is from good luck but with out good management the best luck never lasts.
While I agree that AN MK2 will alway be behind the 8ball until agents are back in the loop I don't think many have the same parochial loyalty you obviously do. There are lot of people, agents, support companies and corporate clients who have been burnt as well as the joe public who do not agree and even resent the actions of AN MK1 staff, the ACTU and cronies, demanding they get "rescued" or 100% entitlements.
Don't forget that these staff are/were on packages and had benefits that those in the support workforce could only dream about. This is not referring to the aircrew but the customer service, reservations and baggage handlers who are no more qualified than your staff or mine.
You speak of agencies about to hit the "glass mountain" Do you support a bail out by the TCF for them on top of the millions to be covered due the abdication of responsibility by the administrators of the Ansett owned Traveland group? Should the $150,000,000 sweetner given by ANZ to the administrators be used to carry AN MK2 on over what only will ever be cherry picked routes or to cover the debts owed by AN including firstly that owed to regional agencies who handled AN and partners who have not been paid for months and are unlikely to see their return (even if they wanted them) and then the public who are out of pocket because the trusted that AN would always be there and finally the employee entitlements.
I see no one pounding the desk for the renumeration (more than entitlements) of costs by support companies or to cover the wages their employees have lost -much smaller as a rule than the ex-AN staff packages.
I am sorry for all the AN employees and their families but their 16,000 in number is but a drop in the ocean compared to the other affected employees and creditors not being fought for and from the facts covered in these debates to date there were just a few too many with unbelievable work practises.
Finally I agree, the safe position you mention is from good luck but with out good management the best luck never lasts.
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EWL
Forgot to mention - Agents still not in the loop and AN MK2 says not in anticipated in near future - but if you want AN MK2 I can book you in 2 minutes or so via the net but if you don't pay me for my time go whistle. The "punter" has to learn "you gotta pay for what you get" and that's only fair. I have had no objections to our service to date.
Forgot to mention - Agents still not in the loop and AN MK2 says not in anticipated in near future - but if you want AN MK2 I can book you in 2 minutes or so via the net but if you don't pay me for my time go whistle. The "punter" has to learn "you gotta pay for what you get" and that's only fair. I have had no objections to our service to date.
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You talk about people objecting to a bail out of AN MK11 but it is already happening in other industries. The Government is bailing the building industry out to the tune of big dollars and no one is complaining and yet it is my taxpayers money paying for it. Or what else would you call the $14,000 first homebuyers grant? It was devised because the building industry was in a spiral dive and needed to be bailed out, so they did, now it is flourishing. News report today indicates that the AN collapse has caused a 1 billion dollar loss economically. I wonder if the Gov had got on to this earlier and put some equity in to be sold off at a later date whether the economy might not have been better off in the long term??? 
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JTMM - What you have written has been taken on board and is totally correct. However - there are moves within AN#2 to allow us back into the loop. It is dependant on a sale - and possibly also due to their suspension/withdrawral from IATA. I am not sure which is correct.
As I have said, there are backdoor ways to avoid GDS charges, and none of them in any way illegal. Short term one needs to get inventive.
Even opening up AN on the net to agents as DJ does would be better than the drama clients have had trying to book via the 131300 number - the system is obviously in overload - and guess what? No credit card - no booking if you are away from an AN outlet.
Lotsa work to do!!
EWL
As I have said, there are backdoor ways to avoid GDS charges, and none of them in any way illegal. Short term one needs to get inventive.
Even opening up AN on the net to agents as DJ does would be better than the drama clients have had trying to book via the 131300 number - the system is obviously in overload - and guess what? No credit card - no booking if you are away from an AN outlet.
Lotsa work to do!!
EWL
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Also JTMM - I dont support any bailout by the Government - as I could never expect to get one and would hope to think that I had a wide enough diversity within my business to cover most eventualities.
If AN employees are bailed out for the accrued entitlements they deserve, then it should become universal - and it just cant.
The TCF is going to be in for a huge cost overun and their reserves wont even scratch the surface of the monies owed. There is something else that will need a big tailstand. If they turn around and nail Agents and Airlines for the overun, then the 30% that are looking down the barrel will quickly become 50%. China Syndrome. If they nail the passenger with yet another tax - the same result - traffic downturn. No win either way.
Basically - our industry is in the biggest mess ever.
The only airline that is travelling well is the Great White Rat - reducing overseas loads have meant that potentially idle aircraft have been fully and profitably redeployed - and with a great deal of good sense and compassion, as every new or upgraded flight has come online with the full range of discount seats - even down to frequent flyer redemption seats.
Best again
EWL
If AN employees are bailed out for the accrued entitlements they deserve, then it should become universal - and it just cant.
The TCF is going to be in for a huge cost overun and their reserves wont even scratch the surface of the monies owed. There is something else that will need a big tailstand. If they turn around and nail Agents and Airlines for the overun, then the 30% that are looking down the barrel will quickly become 50%. China Syndrome. If they nail the passenger with yet another tax - the same result - traffic downturn. No win either way.
Basically - our industry is in the biggest mess ever.
The only airline that is travelling well is the Great White Rat - reducing overseas loads have meant that potentially idle aircraft have been fully and profitably redeployed - and with a great deal of good sense and compassion, as every new or upgraded flight has come online with the full range of discount seats - even down to frequent flyer redemption seats.
Best again
EWL
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Sked, You're right the government is bailing out industries all the time, as per your eg the building industry, but the operative word is "industry" not companies. The home buyers grant is/was to kick start the industry but if you are a poor builder or have poor management practices you still won't get there and your staff still won't get paid.
EWL, As I understand it AN's IATA plate has been pulled and the administrators have either not applied for it or have been denied getting it back. Therefore the only way they can sell tickets is in-house as per Freedomair and Virgin systems. I know there ways to avoid GDS fees but you can't sell seats through a CRS, even the ways you describe without ticket stock either manual or the BSP/Airline owned E-ticket system all controlled by BSP. Again no IATA plate no ticketing.
Re our industry - yes what a mess and I really feel for the agencies, large and small, who have all their eggs in the one basket. BUT I will fight tooth and nail against any further attempt to levy us to bolster the reserves of the TCF.
If our "industry" is to suffer the downturn consequences of additional charges then put the $10 into the TCF to cover the these losses and those incurred through the Traveland debacle and that of any other agency, associated company or member of the public affected before it goes to the AN staff entitlement fund.
Further as you said about res there are ways around everything including the credit card issue. Charge a fee and use the company card for cash customers - you might get some bonus frequent flyer points if the're ever going to be worth anything again.
Cheers
EWL, As I understand it AN's IATA plate has been pulled and the administrators have either not applied for it or have been denied getting it back. Therefore the only way they can sell tickets is in-house as per Freedomair and Virgin systems. I know there ways to avoid GDS fees but you can't sell seats through a CRS, even the ways you describe without ticket stock either manual or the BSP/Airline owned E-ticket system all controlled by BSP. Again no IATA plate no ticketing.
Re our industry - yes what a mess and I really feel for the agencies, large and small, who have all their eggs in the one basket. BUT I will fight tooth and nail against any further attempt to levy us to bolster the reserves of the TCF.
If our "industry" is to suffer the downturn consequences of additional charges then put the $10 into the TCF to cover the these losses and those incurred through the Traveland debacle and that of any other agency, associated company or member of the public affected before it goes to the AN staff entitlement fund.
Further as you said about res there are ways around everything including the credit card issue. Charge a fee and use the company card for cash customers - you might get some bonus frequent flyer points if the're ever going to be worth anything again.
Cheers
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Sked, Further to your query, I agree an earlier response could have been appropriate - However it probably didn't even need taking equity or whatever, might I suggest that if the Tax Breaks and incentives given to VB to start up were instead offered to AN (or QF)to encourage a restructure to allow lower fares rather than wholesale support of an entire new player the economy would be far better off and our tax dollars would have been much better spent.
The question of course is would AN staff or their unions have accepted the restructure which would by necessity have included job cuts or at least wage/conditions cuts?
The question of course is would AN staff or their unions have accepted the restructure which would by necessity have included job cuts or at least wage/conditions cuts?
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Yes JTMM- your points are all correct and valid. If IATA is not switched on by AN - if allowed then we are all mucking around in the dark - the GDS is worse than useless unless the payment if done thru moneydirectand the cost of the transaction absorbed by AN-messy at best. Sort of like booking TT Line - messy at best and currently not worth the effort. Sad.
The TCF scenario is interesting. A body that will bail out debts from unlicensed Travel Agents needs a serious check - as it also does for allowing them to operate.
EWL
Edited for typos - may remain.
[ 13 October 2001: Message edited by: Eastwest Loco ]
The TCF scenario is interesting. A body that will bail out debts from unlicensed Travel Agents needs a serious check - as it also does for allowing them to operate.
EWL
Edited for typos - may remain.
[ 13 October 2001: Message edited by: Eastwest Loco ]
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Don't forget:-
John Howard quickly jumped in and bailed out his brother's company! The Government made taxpayers pay the full entitlements of workers dismissed by the Company National Textiles, chaired by the Prime Minister's brother Stan Howard.
In early June, 2001, the Government decided to spend $640 million to bail out victims of the HIH Insurance collapse.
Three months ago John Howard assisted the automotive industry committing to injecting $2 billion over five years, saving 3,000 Mitsubishi jobs.
Also lets not forget that John Howard is also considering bailing out businesses effected by the CHOGM cancellation - some of which are foreign owned.
John Howard quickly jumped in and bailed out his brother's company! The Government made taxpayers pay the full entitlements of workers dismissed by the Company National Textiles, chaired by the Prime Minister's brother Stan Howard.
In early June, 2001, the Government decided to spend $640 million to bail out victims of the HIH Insurance collapse.
Three months ago John Howard assisted the automotive industry committing to injecting $2 billion over five years, saving 3,000 Mitsubishi jobs.
Also lets not forget that John Howard is also considering bailing out businesses effected by the CHOGM cancellation - some of which are foreign owned.
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UTW - Right, Right and Right but it doesn't make it right now.
What I am simply saying that IF government bailouts are warranted then all victims should expect equal support. Just because you do not have a vocal union backing your claims doesn't mean you should be written off. I know many affected who can only shrug their shoulders, put in the claims to the administrators and hope to get a few cents in the dollar. In the mean time they have to find their money from some where else.
As EWL says, selective support abounds and its not unique to this government, and it will no doubt continue with the next whomever it is!
Another question for each case you mention that I cannot answer - who are the victims and who was ultimately responsible (directly or indirectly) for each circumstance? Knowing the media do all the facts really come out impartially?
What I am simply saying that IF government bailouts are warranted then all victims should expect equal support. Just because you do not have a vocal union backing your claims doesn't mean you should be written off. I know many affected who can only shrug their shoulders, put in the claims to the administrators and hope to get a few cents in the dollar. In the mean time they have to find their money from some where else.
As EWL says, selective support abounds and its not unique to this government, and it will no doubt continue with the next whomever it is!
Another question for each case you mention that I cannot answer - who are the victims and who was ultimately responsible (directly or indirectly) for each circumstance? Knowing the media do all the facts really come out impartially?
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Yes it is or was beerplease - but what started off as a yep guys has dragged out to a just a little more time scenario. It is going to happen from all my information, the how and when appear to be the sticking points.
EWL
EWL
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Thanks for the reality check Beerplease, your right.
Back to "agents back in the loop" - What I have been trying to say is that the agents may not jump back into the loop as quickly as desired if the powers that "can" do not recognise that they (the agents) are affected and many may still resent the actions of the vocal few in the media.
How many businesses would jump in boots and all to support some one who has screwed you, apparently made very little attempt to right wrongs, then has apparently got assistance to resurface that you would never be offered. And then ignored you at the time in that resurfacing.
??????
Back to "agents back in the loop" - What I have been trying to say is that the agents may not jump back into the loop as quickly as desired if the powers that "can" do not recognise that they (the agents) are affected and many may still resent the actions of the vocal few in the media.
How many businesses would jump in boots and all to support some one who has screwed you, apparently made very little attempt to right wrongs, then has apparently got assistance to resurface that you would never be offered. And then ignored you at the time in that resurfacing.
??????
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All I was saying was that it is the government's responsibility to assist such an important industry if it's in trouble. Now it seems Ms Kelly has finally realised it is more than just a "blip".
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JTMM - We - the Agents havent been screwed by AN as such - just a lot of our mates have found themselves in limbo.
The only tangible loss my Agency is wearing is about $6000.00 in unpaid flown revenue overide commissions for the 3 months prior to shutdown. A considerable amount but not threatening to the viability of the Agency. Many are not so lucky. Head office is pursuing this with Andersen but I am not counting on it.
If the service is guaranteed and available, then we will sell it. Many need to have access to it to make a sale and commission rather than just fade away.
One local Agent, the ground handler for KD, is booking via the net for clients and charging a $12.00 fee for service which is fine, but something I will not embrace as I feel it is unfair to the SLF. There are enough new taxes loaded onto the local airfares to make them prohibitive without us extracting an extra fee.
EWL
The only tangible loss my Agency is wearing is about $6000.00 in unpaid flown revenue overide commissions for the 3 months prior to shutdown. A considerable amount but not threatening to the viability of the Agency. Many are not so lucky. Head office is pursuing this with Andersen but I am not counting on it.
If the service is guaranteed and available, then we will sell it. Many need to have access to it to make a sale and commission rather than just fade away.
One local Agent, the ground handler for KD, is booking via the net for clients and charging a $12.00 fee for service which is fine, but something I will not embrace as I feel it is unfair to the SLF. There are enough new taxes loaded onto the local airfares to make them prohibitive without us extracting an extra fee.
EWL
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My apologies EWL, "screwed" was maybe a little strong and like you any losses we have incurred will not kill off our business or my intentions to sell either way. I however am, like the KD ground handler you speak of charging a service fee. If the customers wants AN I can not afford to say no, but also cannot afford to work for free.
I do however know of a number of agents affected far worse, including Traveland Franchisees whose predominant domestic business was AN based who have put off staff already. Also know of a couple with corporate accounts outstanding where the business has refused to pay for Ansett tickets purchased pre collapse. Their fault admittedly for carrying accounts too long but?
UTW, I know what you mean and I do agree, I am only passing on observations of mates far worse affected than I who will be seriously thinking before they leap, if at all. There are more than a few agent who have already jumped ship on aliances and preferred arrangements.
Regards
I do however know of a number of agents affected far worse, including Traveland Franchisees whose predominant domestic business was AN based who have put off staff already. Also know of a couple with corporate accounts outstanding where the business has refused to pay for Ansett tickets purchased pre collapse. Their fault admittedly for carrying accounts too long but?
UTW, I know what you mean and I do agree, I am only passing on observations of mates far worse affected than I who will be seriously thinking before they leap, if at all. There are more than a few agent who have already jumped ship on aliances and preferred arrangements.
Regards