What will happen to the 717's when they pull out of OOL?
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What will happen to the 717's when they pull out of OOL?
Have just heard that Impulse will be closing down their OOL crew base, and QF will restart services by themselves ex SYD to OOL using 767's and 737's...
If this is the case, where will the OOL crew go?? Where will the aircraft be deployed? Has anyone heard of any new planned routes?? Say BNE-ROK, BNE-MKY, BNE-HTI, BNE-CNS, BNE-DRW, SYD-ASP, SYD-AYQ???
Many rumours flying around the joint - also hear rumours about additional 717's coming online (probably easily done, given the fact AA want to get rid of TWA's 717's - and the current aviation climate over there!)
Anyone heard anything juicy?
If this is the case, where will the OOL crew go?? Where will the aircraft be deployed? Has anyone heard of any new planned routes?? Say BNE-ROK, BNE-MKY, BNE-HTI, BNE-CNS, BNE-DRW, SYD-ASP, SYD-AYQ???
Many rumours flying around the joint - also hear rumours about additional 717's coming online (probably easily done, given the fact AA want to get rid of TWA's 717's - and the current aviation climate over there!)
Anyone heard anything juicy?
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One 'juicy' rumour is that QF have been offered any number of B737-700NG aircraft with three aicraft available immediately.
Southwest were taking delivery of one a week and have just advised Boeing that they do not want any more this year (eleven available). Southwest are to advise Boeing re next year's cancellations.
Part of the deal includes trading in some of the present aged fleet with the proviso that they can remain flying with QF until the dust settles post AN and they are not required.
BTW. United have just announced they are withdrawing from 18 routes and grounding all B727's and all B737-200's with further announcements to come.
American have advised are bleeding financially and fighting for their survival. They need to ground a further 150 aircraft to break even.
"The honeymoon is over."
Southwest were taking delivery of one a week and have just advised Boeing that they do not want any more this year (eleven available). Southwest are to advise Boeing re next year's cancellations.
Part of the deal includes trading in some of the present aged fleet with the proviso that they can remain flying with QF until the dust settles post AN and they are not required.
BTW. United have just announced they are withdrawing from 18 routes and grounding all B727's and all B737-200's with further announcements to come.
American have advised are bleeding financially and fighting for their survival. They need to ground a further 150 aircraft to break even.
"The honeymoon is over."
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My guess is the crews will relocate back to Brisbane and a new base will be formed Canberra. The 717's will operate on the following routes:
SY-CB-SY
CB-AD-CB
CB-ML-CB
BN-CB-BN
BN-HTI-BN
BN-MK-BN
BN-RK-BN
BN-ISA-BN
SY-HTI-SY
SY-CH-SY (Only once per day)
The SY-CB-SY will replace a couple of Dash8 flights allowing them to be used on other regional ports. The SY-CH-SY will supplement the current Dash8 operation. The other routes have been flown by 146 aircraft and were also flown by Kendell CRJ aircraft. With the CRJ not flying (and may never operate again) Qantas requires a larger aircraft to operate these routes. The BN-ISA-BN route is a new one for Qantas.
SY-CB-SY
CB-AD-CB
CB-ML-CB
BN-CB-BN
BN-HTI-BN
BN-MK-BN
BN-RK-BN
BN-ISA-BN
SY-HTI-SY
SY-CH-SY (Only once per day)
The SY-CB-SY will replace a couple of Dash8 flights allowing them to be used on other regional ports. The SY-CH-SY will supplement the current Dash8 operation. The other routes have been flown by 146 aircraft and were also flown by Kendell CRJ aircraft. With the CRJ not flying (and may never operate again) Qantas requires a larger aircraft to operate these routes. The BN-ISA-BN route is a new one for Qantas.
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The rumour down in Tassie is that they (some? one?) will be doing the Launceston run. Flights in and out are chockers - Southern are doing a commendable job with extra flights - but it's not enough. Has anyone else heard this rumour? Wondering whether it would be on a temporary basis until Southern expand? Or on a more permanent basis?
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Have just received a press release from QF saying that they will be redeployed on other domestic services - didn't say Australian or NZ though, which is a worry (maybe paranoia on my part??!!)
Have heard the NZ rumour for a while now, but given the fact their crew contracting company, JetConnect, has just hired 65 staff to crew the 737 (of which they can use Air NZ facilities), it would seem strange to introduce an entirely new aircraft with all the associated costs it would require(including the provision of spares, etc, to a market that can barely support 2, let alone more, airlines!!)
I've also heard the rumour about 8 new aircraft as well - but given the situation at Boeing, and airlines in the US at the moment, they may be able to take advantage of second hand 717's on the market (and I mean take advantage in the commercial sense - certainly in these troubled times, taking advantage of any individual or company is terrible!)
Many of the people here at Impulse are confused and worried given the current climate here as to their jobs and futures (to hear of a base closure - especially now - is enough to send all crew mad - and rightly so!)...Let's hope that the BNE base is true...Have heard rumours (haven't we all???) that QF in BNE don't want us there (???) - Why I don't know...maybe someone can enlighten me here...been a bit of a battle of late apparently to get this sorted.
CBR base on the other hand might be an option, especially since QF has committed $7million dollars to the maintenance base that was being built during Impulses' own operations. Don't know if too many OOL crew would want to move to CBR (given the weather there as opposed to OOL, I wouldn't feel too positive about it - then again, better to have a job in CBR, than no job at all!)
Has QF elaborated EXACTLY on which routes they intend to fly to? Or is this being worked out? Our rosters at Impulse have been published only until the 27th October (reason being that QF were still 'finalising' the daylight savings schedule - you don't say!!!) - In good time I know we'll find out, and the routes being suggested by everyone above sound just about right...anyone else have any further info??
Have heard the NZ rumour for a while now, but given the fact their crew contracting company, JetConnect, has just hired 65 staff to crew the 737 (of which they can use Air NZ facilities), it would seem strange to introduce an entirely new aircraft with all the associated costs it would require(including the provision of spares, etc, to a market that can barely support 2, let alone more, airlines!!)
I've also heard the rumour about 8 new aircraft as well - but given the situation at Boeing, and airlines in the US at the moment, they may be able to take advantage of second hand 717's on the market (and I mean take advantage in the commercial sense - certainly in these troubled times, taking advantage of any individual or company is terrible!)
Many of the people here at Impulse are confused and worried given the current climate here as to their jobs and futures (to hear of a base closure - especially now - is enough to send all crew mad - and rightly so!)...Let's hope that the BNE base is true...Have heard rumours (haven't we all???) that QF in BNE don't want us there (???) - Why I don't know...maybe someone can enlighten me here...been a bit of a battle of late apparently to get this sorted.
CBR base on the other hand might be an option, especially since QF has committed $7million dollars to the maintenance base that was being built during Impulses' own operations. Don't know if too many OOL crew would want to move to CBR (given the weather there as opposed to OOL, I wouldn't feel too positive about it - then again, better to have a job in CBR, than no job at all!)
Has QF elaborated EXACTLY on which routes they intend to fly to? Or is this being worked out? Our rosters at Impulse have been published only until the 27th October (reason being that QF were still 'finalising' the daylight savings schedule - you don't say!!!) - In good time I know we'll find out, and the routes being suggested by everyone above sound just about right...anyone else have any further info??
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Hogtrotter,
`tis only going to get worse.Personal attacks add fuel to the fire of prejudice & insecurity.What should these pilots do?Leave their jobs in protest of their undercutting of you?QF is the last bastion of great work conditions based in this beautiful country.The benchmark has been set....VB/IMPULSE.
Many years ago, I imagine their was a chance of some pilot unity.Domestic/International unions........probably doesn`t matter now,damage has been done and retirement for this generation beckons.
QF conditions will be under pressure.I don`t think it is right but the benchmark has been set;the disparity is huge.QF`s low cost carrier will be the start.I imagine the new turmoil that engulfs airlines will heighten the pressures.
Airline flying is becoming less specialised in this country.You can buy endorsements like the old days of GA..only now its a 737/717.As a commodity we are in abundance.Airliners themselves are becoming easier to fly.Look at Europe,you get a 737/a320 job with no experience.These are the pressures & benchmarks.
I sincerely hope I am wrong,the job & conditions of a QF Captain are deserved & aspired too.But there is disparity, erosion and the avid displays of human nature by pilots on these very forums.
`tis only going to get worse.Personal attacks add fuel to the fire of prejudice & insecurity.What should these pilots do?Leave their jobs in protest of their undercutting of you?QF is the last bastion of great work conditions based in this beautiful country.The benchmark has been set....VB/IMPULSE.
Many years ago, I imagine their was a chance of some pilot unity.Domestic/International unions........probably doesn`t matter now,damage has been done and retirement for this generation beckons.
QF conditions will be under pressure.I don`t think it is right but the benchmark has been set;the disparity is huge.QF`s low cost carrier will be the start.I imagine the new turmoil that engulfs airlines will heighten the pressures.
Airline flying is becoming less specialised in this country.You can buy endorsements like the old days of GA..only now its a 737/717.As a commodity we are in abundance.Airliners themselves are becoming easier to fly.Look at Europe,you get a 737/a320 job with no experience.These are the pressures & benchmarks.
I sincerely hope I am wrong,the job & conditions of a QF Captain are deserved & aspired too.But there is disparity, erosion and the avid displays of human nature by pilots on these very forums.
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Mr Hogtrotter, you would appear to be depriving a village somewhere of an idiot. Can you stand there and tell me you are acting in a "professional" manner, as the very first word of thie name of this website reads, or would you say that your obvious anger towards another organisation which is chocka-block full of hard working guys and girls is really warranted?
What they get paid is, in all reality, their business, however the emergence of "no frills" operators means that some things have had to change for some, and there will be a divide of some description emerging.
We have all said things that we probably shouldn't (I know I did when I first came upon pprune), but the number of times this would appear to be happening of late will eventually lead to some form of closure of this forum if left unchecked. The moderators job is hard enough as it is, please don't give him/her a harder time than s/he needs.
I'll buy you a beer if you want to talk about it.
What they get paid is, in all reality, their business, however the emergence of "no frills" operators means that some things have had to change for some, and there will be a divide of some description emerging.
We have all said things that we probably shouldn't (I know I did when I first came upon pprune), but the number of times this would appear to be happening of late will eventually lead to some form of closure of this forum if left unchecked. The moderators job is hard enough as it is, please don't give him/her a harder time than s/he needs.
I'll buy you a beer if you want to talk about it.
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Hogtrotter,
I'm sure you had good intentions when you wrote your little epithet, but would you mind enlightening those of us here to just EXACTLY what you meant?? Lost is perhaps the best verb to describe what I'm feeling right now!!
I can only gather that your topic was somehow related to how discount carriers versus the more established, full service ones such as Qantas...and how these discount carriers affect the conditions of those at full service carriers...is this what you meant??? Maybe I'm wrong - who knows...
Yes - discount carriers do affect the more established conditions of larger, full service carriers - but with the aviation industry in absolute turmoil at the moment (and even then, I think turmoil is understated for recent events re:SwissAir, Sabena, Ansett - not to forget the US carriers) I think it's better to have 'reasonable' conditions, as opposed to no jobs at all.
True, united we bargain, divided we beg (Union through and through) - but at what cost? Do we price ourselves to an unsustainable level, where our future is insecure? Or do we price ourselves reasonably enough to ensure a long term career with a profitable carrier? Note here that one person's idea of reasonable is more than likely not the same as anyone elses.
Impulse is a very efficient, well run company (having worked at both AN and NZ previously!). True, the salaries for crew are not as high, nor conditions exactly the same, but Qantas is very different to Impulse - in terms of size, product (even though it's QantasLink product), staff numbers, headquarters, aircraft, etc.
On the original note of this topic however, has anyone else heard anything different/new regarding the routes/bases/etc?? Still no word from QF 'officially' as to where and how the 717's are to be deployed post Oct 28...
I'm sure you had good intentions when you wrote your little epithet, but would you mind enlightening those of us here to just EXACTLY what you meant?? Lost is perhaps the best verb to describe what I'm feeling right now!!
I can only gather that your topic was somehow related to how discount carriers versus the more established, full service ones such as Qantas...and how these discount carriers affect the conditions of those at full service carriers...is this what you meant??? Maybe I'm wrong - who knows...
Yes - discount carriers do affect the more established conditions of larger, full service carriers - but with the aviation industry in absolute turmoil at the moment (and even then, I think turmoil is understated for recent events re:SwissAir, Sabena, Ansett - not to forget the US carriers) I think it's better to have 'reasonable' conditions, as opposed to no jobs at all.
True, united we bargain, divided we beg (Union through and through) - but at what cost? Do we price ourselves to an unsustainable level, where our future is insecure? Or do we price ourselves reasonably enough to ensure a long term career with a profitable carrier? Note here that one person's idea of reasonable is more than likely not the same as anyone elses.
Impulse is a very efficient, well run company (having worked at both AN and NZ previously!). True, the salaries for crew are not as high, nor conditions exactly the same, but Qantas is very different to Impulse - in terms of size, product (even though it's QantasLink product), staff numbers, headquarters, aircraft, etc.
On the original note of this topic however, has anyone else heard anything different/new regarding the routes/bases/etc?? Still no word from QF 'officially' as to where and how the 717's are to be deployed post Oct 28...
