That Fat Lady is Warming Up!
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That Fat Lady is Warming Up!
I am back from the beach after a week or R&R, recovering from the stress of the ANMK2/FLEW/TESNA/ACTU/ADMINISTRATORS Balls UP.
What's that I hear? La, La, La, it's getting louder,
The performance was delayed, but the Fat Lady told me she has a booking for later in the week.
All the Best. . <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
What's that I hear? La, La, La, it's getting louder,
The performance was delayed, but the Fat Lady told me she has a booking for later in the week.
All the Best. . <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
From todays' "Age" online
"The Ansett administrators have warned that if the Tesna deal fails, the airline's original workforce of more than 16,000 would not receive their full entitlements."
Why you ask?? Because M & M have been pissing a million a day down the drain. Rumour last night was that if the sale fails, FLEW will be paid $$$'s (of the million variety) for all their efforts and expense in trying to buy AN, by the administrators. Once more staff entitlements go west!!
"The Ansett administrators have warned that if the Tesna deal fails, the airline's original workforce of more than 16,000 would not receive their full entitlements."
Why you ask?? Because M & M have been pissing a million a day down the drain. Rumour last night was that if the sale fails, FLEW will be paid $$$'s (of the million variety) for all their efforts and expense in trying to buy AN, by the administrators. Once more staff entitlements go west!!
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
The performance is OVER, it happened on September the 13th last year (in case you missed it).
There are a few understudies from the original cast still floating around the set, but the main cast is still floundering around, waiting to be paid for past renditions!
A couple of "high-flyers" liked the original play so much that they dived in, wanting to buy the opera house, set, and props, using someone else's $$$ (some gullible [perhaps that's what they thought!] cashed-up Yanks, and a smooth Pommie entrepreneur who's more than quadrupled HIS money in less than 12 months).. .But it appears that the Yanks and the Pom recognised the main actress, and passed up the offer (of doing their dough), leaving our boys to cough up their OWN $$$'s!!
Who was it they saw?
Answers below.
There are a few understudies from the original cast still floating around the set, but the main cast is still floundering around, waiting to be paid for past renditions!
A couple of "high-flyers" liked the original play so much that they dived in, wanting to buy the opera house, set, and props, using someone else's $$$ (some gullible [perhaps that's what they thought!] cashed-up Yanks, and a smooth Pommie entrepreneur who's more than quadrupled HIS money in less than 12 months).. .But it appears that the Yanks and the Pom recognised the main actress, and passed up the offer (of doing their dough), leaving our boys to cough up their OWN $$$'s!!
Who was it they saw?
Answers below.
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Duck Muck, I would if the pricks would give me my Super.If you were in the company scheme the answer is always, tommorrow or next week.
Buy Qantas now, watch it go up when the Fat Lady sings, but sell Qantas when Virgin floats. (buy Virgin)
Good Luck
Buy Qantas now, watch it go up when the Fat Lady sings, but sell Qantas when Virgin floats. (buy Virgin)
Good Luck
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Settle down **** **'*, If Tesna are not interested in paying up, dont you think they would put a hold on simulator training. Thats right their training 7 crews / month all paid by TESNA.. .maybe the fat lady is to busy sucking on Terry Mccranns **** to be able to "spit" out a note or two just yet... 
The usual suspects wishing people they ( mostly)have never met ill.. .The phrase grow up rings loud but its too late for the likes of you.. .If aviation has a problem it is people like you.. .PS No connection to anyone at Ansett or Tesna or 89 or management, just someone who wants to see standards lifted.
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[quote]If Tesna are not interested in paying up, dont you think they would put a hold on simulator training. Thats right their training 7 crews / month all paid by TESNA. <hr></blockquote>
I think you'll find that the training is being paid for by the Creditors, c/o The Marks.
I think you'll find that the training is being paid for by the Creditors, c/o The Marks.
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Ancient rivalries are nice my friends, but they have no relevance to what's going on at present.
Over the past six months, Pprune has proved beyond a shadow of doubt just how little pilots know or understand about the commercial world, or even the industry in which they work.
Ansett Mark II is not operating to make a profit, and never was. It was started initially to retain value in the airline for sale. It was then kept in operation as it was a condition of sale that an operating airline be delivered - intended to be on Feb 1, and allowed to be extended by the administrators (for reasons unknown to me) for a further 30 days. If operations ceased prior to this time, the purchasers would have the right to walk. The business call made by the administrators was simple - could they raise more money by liquidating the airline immediately, or by a selling and then deducting the losses of continuing operations? They chose the latter, in a move describe to me by an insider as "the gutsiest decision I've ever seen by an administrator". But please drop your conspiracy and skullduggery theories. The decisions made by the two Marks have been pure business. This is because they are legally liable for any committments made in administration which can't be met. Their houses are on the line, and there is no room for sentiment. That is why they make such big $$$. Please don't underestimate the risk.
The interesting thing now is what happens if the sale is not finalised by Thursday. The administrators have indicated their intention to cease operations and stem the flow of red ink. Again, this is a pure business decision because at this time they are saying they cannot guarantee the best outcome for creditors if they continue operations, even if the sale does subsequently settle. Remember it is not you, or me, or Tesna, or Lang, or anyone else who matters here. It is only the creditors, and we are all wasting our time getting bitter and angry about anything else.
HOWEVER, CEASING OPERATIONS DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN TESNA WILL NOT PURCHASE THE AIRLINE. All it means is the administrators will not be deliver an operating airline as they are no longer bound to do so. Tesna will then have to decide whether the let the tens of millions they have already spent disappear into nothing.
Anyone with an understanding of the separation of legal entities (ie the "corporate veil") will tell you losses incurred by the administrator have nothing to do with the purchaser. Media reports of Ansett Mark II looking sick, losing money etc are missing the point...all this has nothing to do with Tesna, and quite frankly they wouldn't care. In their eyes, the public have a very short memory and a swish relaunch followed by an intense and targetted marketing campaign will do the trick. A damaged brand is not ideal, but they figure it is easier than trying to build a new one. Remember, they are starting small and building up, and once they mature in 18 months they intend to carry around half of what they did previously.
As for the training of the A320 pilots, if the administrators are paying for that one I will run naked around the MCG on Grand Final day with a model of a Kendell CRJ strapped to my old fella!!! (Just kidding folks, I know stranger things have happened so I better cover my butt). Tesna would certainly be paying for the training of their own pilots for their own purposes - the administrators would have a hell of a time explaining such an expense to the creditors.
Time will tell what happens, but as I've posted previously, my belief is Tesna have done the deal of the century. A full service airline with terminals, slots, lounges and therefore access to high yield traffic, and yet with labour costs and work practices closer to that of a budget carrier.
Labour costs (both wages and work practices) are the key to any airline. All other costs are pretty much standard, and labour is the only variable. I know pilots, other employees and unions will argue otherwise, but in reality it is the difference between red and black ink. If you have lower labour costs than your direct competitor you will be profitable. If not, all you will see is red ink.
If Tesna has the working capital to last 18 months, look out! QF will feel the heat like never before, and they know it. This is what's behind their clever an opportunistic wage freeze. That may be only the tip of the iceberg. If Tesna endures, QF will have to cut costs further, and I would expect industrial strife on a scale never before seen in this country (OK, maybe the Eureka Stockade!).
But only if Tesna can last 18 months!
Over the past six months, Pprune has proved beyond a shadow of doubt just how little pilots know or understand about the commercial world, or even the industry in which they work.
Ansett Mark II is not operating to make a profit, and never was. It was started initially to retain value in the airline for sale. It was then kept in operation as it was a condition of sale that an operating airline be delivered - intended to be on Feb 1, and allowed to be extended by the administrators (for reasons unknown to me) for a further 30 days. If operations ceased prior to this time, the purchasers would have the right to walk. The business call made by the administrators was simple - could they raise more money by liquidating the airline immediately, or by a selling and then deducting the losses of continuing operations? They chose the latter, in a move describe to me by an insider as "the gutsiest decision I've ever seen by an administrator". But please drop your conspiracy and skullduggery theories. The decisions made by the two Marks have been pure business. This is because they are legally liable for any committments made in administration which can't be met. Their houses are on the line, and there is no room for sentiment. That is why they make such big $$$. Please don't underestimate the risk.
The interesting thing now is what happens if the sale is not finalised by Thursday. The administrators have indicated their intention to cease operations and stem the flow of red ink. Again, this is a pure business decision because at this time they are saying they cannot guarantee the best outcome for creditors if they continue operations, even if the sale does subsequently settle. Remember it is not you, or me, or Tesna, or Lang, or anyone else who matters here. It is only the creditors, and we are all wasting our time getting bitter and angry about anything else.
HOWEVER, CEASING OPERATIONS DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN TESNA WILL NOT PURCHASE THE AIRLINE. All it means is the administrators will not be deliver an operating airline as they are no longer bound to do so. Tesna will then have to decide whether the let the tens of millions they have already spent disappear into nothing.
Anyone with an understanding of the separation of legal entities (ie the "corporate veil") will tell you losses incurred by the administrator have nothing to do with the purchaser. Media reports of Ansett Mark II looking sick, losing money etc are missing the point...all this has nothing to do with Tesna, and quite frankly they wouldn't care. In their eyes, the public have a very short memory and a swish relaunch followed by an intense and targetted marketing campaign will do the trick. A damaged brand is not ideal, but they figure it is easier than trying to build a new one. Remember, they are starting small and building up, and once they mature in 18 months they intend to carry around half of what they did previously.
As for the training of the A320 pilots, if the administrators are paying for that one I will run naked around the MCG on Grand Final day with a model of a Kendell CRJ strapped to my old fella!!! (Just kidding folks, I know stranger things have happened so I better cover my butt). Tesna would certainly be paying for the training of their own pilots for their own purposes - the administrators would have a hell of a time explaining such an expense to the creditors.
Time will tell what happens, but as I've posted previously, my belief is Tesna have done the deal of the century. A full service airline with terminals, slots, lounges and therefore access to high yield traffic, and yet with labour costs and work practices closer to that of a budget carrier.
Labour costs (both wages and work practices) are the key to any airline. All other costs are pretty much standard, and labour is the only variable. I know pilots, other employees and unions will argue otherwise, but in reality it is the difference between red and black ink. If you have lower labour costs than your direct competitor you will be profitable. If not, all you will see is red ink.
If Tesna has the working capital to last 18 months, look out! QF will feel the heat like never before, and they know it. This is what's behind their clever an opportunistic wage freeze. That may be only the tip of the iceberg. If Tesna endures, QF will have to cut costs further, and I would expect industrial strife on a scale never before seen in this country (OK, maybe the Eureka Stockade!).
But only if Tesna can last 18 months!
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
If I may, Flying Tiger, [quote]Over the past six months, Pprune has proved beyond a shadow of doubt just how little pilots know or understand about the commercial world, or even the industry in which they work.<hr></blockquote>. .You are obviously new to aviation, or have not researched the subject of pilots involvement in airlines too thoroughly, ESPECIALLY the very subject of this thread - Ansett - named after the pilot, founder and manager, Sir Reginald Ansett, who ran an efficent, prosperous, and financially healthy company for DECADES before it was placed in the hands of non-pilot management, and which heralded the beginning of the end.
[quote]Ansett Mark II is not operating to make a profit, and never was. It was started initially to retain value in the airline for sale.<hr></blockquote>. .Really? So what was the projected weekly/monthly LOSS, if indeed - as it now appears - there was any cap?. .Little wonder the creditors were calling for liquidation, knowing that the M&M's were at liberty to continue trading on REGARDLESS!! <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> . .The point that it was "to retain value" is truly moot, as the past couple of months have - without doubt - greatly DEPRECIATED Ansett's worth because of the depth of uncertainty in the publics' eye, of the airline's survival beyond February.
[quote]The decisions made by the two Marks have been pure business.<hr></blockquote> . .Apparently so, however it appears that THAT may be less than the case on the FLEW-ACTU side of the fence, and if the M&M's were not aware of the political cards being played then they were the wrong men for the job, and could very well - along with the ex-Ansett staff - end up being the fall guys!!
. . [quote]This is because they are legally liable for any committments made in administration which can't be met. Their houses are on the line, and there is no room for sentiment. That is why they make such big $$$. Please don't underestimate the risk.<hr></blockquote>. .I doubt that you're going to find little sympathy there, especially from Ansett employees, many of whom are now looking at the prospect of losing their houses and more, and NEVER in line for a HUGE WINDFALL IF the TESNA deal had gone ahead!
[quote]The interesting thing now is what happens if the sale is not finalised by Thursday. The administrators have indicated their intention to cease operations and stem the flow of red ink. Again, this is a pure business decision because at this time they are saying they cannot guarantee the best outcome for creditors if they continue operations, even if the sale does subsequently settle.<hr></blockquote> . .The BEST outcome for the creditors was to liquidate Ansett several months ago. The $$$'s available THEN were substantially more than will be NOW, even IF the sale had gone thru'!
[quote]Remember it is not you, or me, or Tesna, or Lang, or anyone else who matters here. It is only the creditors, and we are all wasting our time getting bitter and angry about anything else.<hr></blockquote>. .The EX-EMPLOYEES ARE the creditors!! It is not possible to to de-humanise the issue here by referring to "the creditors". Those "creditors" represent tens of thousands of Australian families, and it is those PEOPLE whose lives are being SEVERELY affected!. .PEOPLE and FAMILIES - not names, such as Westpac and Diners Club!!
Enough of me for now. I'm ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTED that big business (and that includes the ACTU, again) has been allowed to destroy so many lives as they gamble to make yet another few hundred million to add to their empires! <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
[quote]Ansett Mark II is not operating to make a profit, and never was. It was started initially to retain value in the airline for sale.<hr></blockquote>. .Really? So what was the projected weekly/monthly LOSS, if indeed - as it now appears - there was any cap?. .Little wonder the creditors were calling for liquidation, knowing that the M&M's were at liberty to continue trading on REGARDLESS!! <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> . .The point that it was "to retain value" is truly moot, as the past couple of months have - without doubt - greatly DEPRECIATED Ansett's worth because of the depth of uncertainty in the publics' eye, of the airline's survival beyond February.
[quote]The decisions made by the two Marks have been pure business.<hr></blockquote> . .Apparently so, however it appears that THAT may be less than the case on the FLEW-ACTU side of the fence, and if the M&M's were not aware of the political cards being played then they were the wrong men for the job, and could very well - along with the ex-Ansett staff - end up being the fall guys!!
. . [quote]This is because they are legally liable for any committments made in administration which can't be met. Their houses are on the line, and there is no room for sentiment. That is why they make such big $$$. Please don't underestimate the risk.<hr></blockquote>. .I doubt that you're going to find little sympathy there, especially from Ansett employees, many of whom are now looking at the prospect of losing their houses and more, and NEVER in line for a HUGE WINDFALL IF the TESNA deal had gone ahead!
[quote]The interesting thing now is what happens if the sale is not finalised by Thursday. The administrators have indicated their intention to cease operations and stem the flow of red ink. Again, this is a pure business decision because at this time they are saying they cannot guarantee the best outcome for creditors if they continue operations, even if the sale does subsequently settle.<hr></blockquote> . .The BEST outcome for the creditors was to liquidate Ansett several months ago. The $$$'s available THEN were substantially more than will be NOW, even IF the sale had gone thru'!
[quote]Remember it is not you, or me, or Tesna, or Lang, or anyone else who matters here. It is only the creditors, and we are all wasting our time getting bitter and angry about anything else.<hr></blockquote>. .The EX-EMPLOYEES ARE the creditors!! It is not possible to to de-humanise the issue here by referring to "the creditors". Those "creditors" represent tens of thousands of Australian families, and it is those PEOPLE whose lives are being SEVERELY affected!. .PEOPLE and FAMILIES - not names, such as Westpac and Diners Club!!
Enough of me for now. I'm ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTED that big business (and that includes the ACTU, again) has been allowed to destroy so many lives as they gamble to make yet another few hundred million to add to their empires! <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
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HEAR THIS NON-BELIEVERS
TESNA IS A GOER!!!!!!!!!!
All you Pruners with nothing better to do than knock Tesna-Ansett you will be eating your words come Friday.
Give us a bit of time and we'll be kicking A$$
[ 26 February 2002: Message edited by: Thumbs up ]</p>
TESNA IS A GOER!!!!!!!!!!
All you Pruners with nothing better to do than knock Tesna-Ansett you will be eating your words come Friday.
Give us a bit of time and we'll be kicking A$$
[ 26 February 2002: Message edited by: Thumbs up ]</p>
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As has been said in another post, the fat lady is most definitely not taking appointments this week and is resting quietly.
There may however be pending engagements at some point in the future. We await developments.
There may however be pending engagements at some point in the future. We await developments.