Regulatory Reform ‘Aussie Style’ – An Occasional Series – Flying Training AO
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LeadSled/anybody. .. .Could you please post the URL or other publicly-available source of sports aviation hours flown and accident and incident statistics, and of copies of sports aviation accident investigations.. .. .Thanks
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Well well well. The silence speaks volumes. . .. .I thought there was something a little fishy about the carefully-worded assertions about the safety of sports aviation flying training compared with GA flying training.. .. .The ATSB publishes hours flown and accident statistics for GA, as well as GA accident investigation reports. Where is the publicly-available source of the equivalent information for sports aviation? There appears to be none!. .. .The failure to keep publicly-available records about sports aviation hours flown and accidents is no evidence at all as to the safety of sports aviation. No evidence at all.. .. .LeadSled et al: If we don't know how many hours are flown in sports aviation, and we don't know how many accidents occur in sports aviation, and we don't know the methodology and results of sports aviation accident investigations, how on earth can you presume to make assertions about the safety of sports aviation - in flying training or generally - compared to any other sector of aviation?
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Creampuff. .. .Well we could start with gyrocopters I spose, I'm sure somebody has records on those, something like 1 fatal per 50 hours would be a good start as far as I can deduce from the press.. .. .Any sports aviation rag worth its printing ink has a veritable cornucopia of types available to build or buy.. .. .Is the population of gyrocopters and their drivers low because nobody is interested in gyrocopters or because Darwin has been at work again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .Ultra lights seem to present another choice for the prospective aviator providing the option of checking into heaven with the engine and prop buried either in the back or the front of your head. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" />
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Staistics on various forms of committing aviation are at:. .. .<a href="http://www.auf.asn.au/admin/statistics.html" target="_blank">http://www.auf.asn.au/admin/statistics.html</a>
With reference to the Narrogin crash. My understanding was his GP had told the pilot not to DRIVE A CAR with his medical condition, but was unaware that he flew.. .. .The enthusiastic and responsible member of the AUF then took a friend flying and killed himself and injured the passenger.. .. .Whether he would have flown with a medical condition even if he had a medical certificate is a moot point.
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Deaf: Thanks.. .. .That link contains some very comprehensive and useful stats of numbers of aircraft and hours flown. That's an essential start.. .. .Now where is the publicly available source of sports aviation accident statistics and investigation reports?. .. .Gaunty: your anectodal is similar to my anecdotal!
Creamie, M'e old mate,. .. .The only volumes my recent silence speaks is the occasional need to earn a living, not necessarily on Oz, and when I am on the move, "recreation" is not a major feature of the program, after all, it's not tax deductible. . .. .Anyway, thanks to whoever put up the AUF address, and I have become aware that CASA have collected all the AUF numbers to do their own comparisons. . .. .Unfortunately, there is a certain rubbery feel about much of the GA stats., a further matter in which the good Senators of RRA&T Committee have taken some interest. I have considerable reservations about the utilization data, and the occasional ( as defined) accident probably slips through the cracks. . .. .I have no doubt the same can be said of any GA, AUF, GFA or whatever statistics. . .. .Tootle pip!!
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Creammmmmmmmie. .I think you have been treating yourself to to many. .hand cranks,,,,,,you need to get a life ! ,or a girl friend or something .. .look you lost .....no AOCs for the AUF.. .Now be a good little boy and go for a big fly in your C152 and get a new issue . Hay maybe you can go and pick on the little kids down at the beach flying there kites ,,,,now that sounds like fun !!!
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LeadSled: I trust your work and play have been balanced and fruitful.. .. .During your brief sojourn, your language has however become ambiguous and your sources third hand. . .. .If you go to the AUF address above, you will see that there are no accident stats or investigation reports (unless I’m missing something). . .. .You say that: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">I have become aware that CASA have collected all the AUF numbers to do their own comparisons.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Really? To what “numbers” are you referring and why aren’t they publicly available so that we can make our own judgment as to their accuracy and meaning, and make our own comparisons?. .. .You state that: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">there is a certain rubbery feel about much of the GA stats.... I have considerable reservations about the utilization data, and the occasional (as defined) accident probably slips through the cracks.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">And your point is?. .. .Are you suggesting that your gut feeling – correct or otherwise – as to the accuracy of the GA figures somehow bolsters the accuracy of figures that aren’t even published? Let’s see if I can follow your reasoning: Take some published GA figures that you think are inaccurate, take some unpublished accident data and information from an organisation that investigates itself, and bingo! . .. .I have considerable reservations about the accuracy and comprehensiveness of accident data and information collected by an organisation that investigates itself. I would like to see the data and the information, and analyse the methodology of their collection and production, before judging their efficacy, just as you and I can do with the GA data and information.. .. .So where does that lead us? At this point, categorical assertions about comparative safety between GA and sports aviation are simply unsupported balderdash.. .. .Buck Rogers: Get some education. Quickly.
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G-Loc and Buck Rogers,. .The ultra light/trike/sports flying fraternity is pretty well generally filled with 'wannabees' who somehow failed at making the grade (flying/theory/medical)in GA.....and this has been the only way for them to exercise their wings! Unfortunately, they use the same airspace and radio frequencies as the GA guys and pro's so they must meet the same high standards....this clearly IS NOT the case......come spend an hour any Saturday at Jaspers Brush (in Nowra's airspace)and have a giggle as you listen/watch these clowns try to stay out of each other's way..........god forbid the day they are allowed to operate commercially (legally)...The general public have a right to know that the standards and skill levels quite often leave a lot to the imagination!. .I think CASA got it very wrong.....they should have tightened-up that part of the industry and restricted their operations to AUF and SPORTS AVIATION only (as their names imply) and left the real flying to the professionals who have demonstrated their expertise and skills to the authority. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" />
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Here's a red herring for you but probably germane in the social context.. .. .Returning home from my place of paid work I have occasion to travel for some kilometres on a 100kmh road alongside a large State pine forest, the quiet and tranquility of which is broken by the use of the margins and internal tracks by those contenders for the Darwin awards trail bike and recreational 4 wheeler category, as a test track for their unlicensed and unlicensable machines. . .They are no doubt exercising what they consider is their inalienable right to the choice of the method of their death and maiming.. .At least that is what one of the leading contenders to that category of Darwin award so far was contemplating, whilst passing me parallel at well over 100 kmh mostly airbourne on a very rough track on his 4 chromium plated wheel highly hotted up RV thingy his hair streaming in the breeze. . .One can only assume that the expense of the chrome plated wheels and various go faster bits, sufficiently depleted his financial resources such that he was unable to afford a helmet and the other bits of apparel that presumably mitigate the level of the inevitable serious trauma.. .I could only console my concern over the potential impost on the public purse for a long lifetime of quadriplegic care by the possibility that his non use of a helmet would bring about his death and confine the cost of his stupidity to the paperwork surrounding the death certificate.. .But this errant thought was disturbed by the thought that this particular sub species of the human race have a head which is solid bone between the ears and were thus immune to this potential for saving of the public purse.. .The fact that he was being chased by two children (presumably his young children as they appeared to be of the same ethnicity) on bikes similarly equipped and non apparelled caused me to slow to a stop in the off chance that he may have been racing me and they in turn so. Sadly no as they disappeared in a cloud of dust.. .. .My point? . .Medical services and lifetime care from the public purse as a result of accident and injury from such unlicensed and unsupervised activities in mechanical devices that can go faster than say 12 mph or go higher in the air than say 20 ft should be withheld. . .Maybe then they will get the message that it's not about their "rights" it's about whom is going to pay for them.
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Talking about people airborne under flimsy bits of cloth...how about the kite surfers off the threshold of RW27 at Rottnest?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> . .. .Check out the AOPA non-members forum, (always good for a laugh) there is talk of them lobbying for PPLS to become instructors...at least while we have the AUF they way it is, these people can act out their fantasies of being "flying instructors"!! without barging into the real world.. .. .Couple of weeks ago I flew into a CTAF which has ultralight activity, some clown without a radio was doing orbits at 600 feet on the base leg of the active runway in some kind of flying lawn mower. Very safe.
Gaunty. .. .The old expression used for sightings like the one you had is:. .. .If you have a $10 head, protect it with a $10 helmet.. .. .You do the maths (or is that math?) for a person wearing no helmet.
The notion that the brain inside the skull of an individual is worth protecting even though that said brain has to be co-erced into wearing head protection is clearly flawed.. .Long live Darwin.
