Who the heck was ROGER?..(surname "THAT"?)
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Who the heck was ROGER?..(surname "THAT"?)
My dad was recently telling me that the word "Roger" that we use in radio phraseology, (sometimes very loosely) was originally an RAF officer stationed in Malta during WWII. Does anyone have any other versions?........H 
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Just found this on the Internet, don't know if it is true or not... 
Not as good a story as your version though....
(QUOTE)
What's the origin of the phrase "roger"?
The origin of this phrase, which means "Yes, O.K., I understand you" dates back to the earliest days of wireless communication, when the Morse code letter R (dit-dah-dit) was used to indicate "O.K.--understood." As communications advanced to include voice capabilities, the military alpha code (Able, Baker, Charlie, etc.) was used as a logical extension of such single character responses. R=Roger=understood.
Of course, you always hear "Roger, Wilco, Over and Out" in terse military dramas. The additional verbiage means (Wilco) "Will Comply", (Over) "Message Complete--Reply Expected", and (Out) "Message Complete--No Reply Expected".
Not as good a story as your version though....
(QUOTE)
What's the origin of the phrase "roger"?
The origin of this phrase, which means "Yes, O.K., I understand you" dates back to the earliest days of wireless communication, when the Morse code letter R (dit-dah-dit) was used to indicate "O.K.--understood." As communications advanced to include voice capabilities, the military alpha code (Able, Baker, Charlie, etc.) was used as a logical extension of such single character responses. R=Roger=understood.
Of course, you always hear "Roger, Wilco, Over and Out" in terse military dramas. The additional verbiage means (Wilco) "Will Comply", (Over) "Message Complete--Reply Expected", and (Out) "Message Complete--No Reply Expected".
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Lame, you're a legend mate. This version, although less romantic, is indeed more believable. Although my Maltese father would definately prefer to stick to his version.
Roger that...........H.
Roger that...........H.
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Yes, stick to yours, it is a better story.
However I think the other is the real story, following is the only other reference I could find.......
(QUOTE)
ORIGINS OF ROGER WILCO
ROGER -- "in the meaning of 'Yes, O.K., I understand you -- is voice code for the letter R.
It is part of the 'Able, Baker, Charlie' code known and used by all radiophone operators in the
services in the 40's - 50's. From the earliest days of wireless communication, the Morse code
letter R (dit-dah-dit) has been used to indicate 'O.K. -- understood.' So 'Roger' was the
logical voice-phone equivalent."
Roger! A code word used by pilots to mean ‘your message received and
understood’ in response to radio communications; later it came into general use to mean ‘all right,
OK.’ Roger was the radio communications morse code word for the letter R, which in this case represented the word ‘received.’ ‘Roger Wilco’ was the reply to ‘Roger’ from the original transmitter of the radio message, meaning ‘I have received your message that you have received my message and am signing off.” Wilco implies "I will comply"
"Roger" in both military and government communications definitely came out of the old
cw days. The "R" was sent
as a confirmation of receipt of a message,or a portion of a message. "R" was used, not "QSL".
In voice communications , it thus became "Roger". Even in front-line operations such as by
forward observers. We used Roger and Negative You had to be completely
confident in what you were sending or receiving after all, it could , and often was, life or death
as to what got thru the communications lines.
I cringe almost every time I hear any military movie communications. WILCO means: I will comply with your orders. OVER means I have finished my transmissions and turn the channel over to you to transmit. CLEAR means I am finished with this communication and am standing by on the channel. OUT means I have completed transmission and am completely finished and closing this station or switching to another channel. So you can see why I cringe with "Roger Wilco Over, Clear and Out"
Navy Pilots say the use of Roger Wilco is frowned on, use one or the other as applicable.
In addition to "R" Roger, early CW use for "correct" was Morse "C", this carried over to the phone circuits as "Charlie". This is still used by Morse ops and can still be heard on some military voice circuits as in "That's Charlie" or "That's a Charlie readback". Usually following a readback of a message and meaning 'that is correct'.
(END QUOTE)
A bit boring
but I didn't realise before what Wilco was... :o
So Roger, Wilco, Over and Out.....
However I think the other is the real story, following is the only other reference I could find.......
(QUOTE)
ORIGINS OF ROGER WILCO
ROGER -- "in the meaning of 'Yes, O.K., I understand you -- is voice code for the letter R.
It is part of the 'Able, Baker, Charlie' code known and used by all radiophone operators in the
services in the 40's - 50's. From the earliest days of wireless communication, the Morse code
letter R (dit-dah-dit) has been used to indicate 'O.K. -- understood.' So 'Roger' was the
logical voice-phone equivalent."
Roger! A code word used by pilots to mean ‘your message received and
understood’ in response to radio communications; later it came into general use to mean ‘all right,
OK.’ Roger was the radio communications morse code word for the letter R, which in this case represented the word ‘received.’ ‘Roger Wilco’ was the reply to ‘Roger’ from the original transmitter of the radio message, meaning ‘I have received your message that you have received my message and am signing off.” Wilco implies "I will comply"
"Roger" in both military and government communications definitely came out of the old
cw days. The "R" was sent
as a confirmation of receipt of a message,or a portion of a message. "R" was used, not "QSL".
In voice communications , it thus became "Roger". Even in front-line operations such as by
forward observers. We used Roger and Negative You had to be completely
confident in what you were sending or receiving after all, it could , and often was, life or death
as to what got thru the communications lines.
I cringe almost every time I hear any military movie communications. WILCO means: I will comply with your orders. OVER means I have finished my transmissions and turn the channel over to you to transmit. CLEAR means I am finished with this communication and am standing by on the channel. OUT means I have completed transmission and am completely finished and closing this station or switching to another channel. So you can see why I cringe with "Roger Wilco Over, Clear and Out"
Navy Pilots say the use of Roger Wilco is frowned on, use one or the other as applicable.
In addition to "R" Roger, early CW use for "correct" was Morse "C", this carried over to the phone circuits as "Charlie". This is still used by Morse ops and can still be heard on some military voice circuits as in "That's Charlie" or "That's a Charlie readback". Usually following a readback of a message and meaning 'that is correct'.
(END QUOTE)
A bit boring
but I didn't realise before what Wilco was... :o So Roger, Wilco, Over and Out.....
Evertonian
Geez & I thought it meant what you'd do to someone, as in;
When Sir Peter & Rupert were asked what they'd like to do with Ansett, they said Roger it!
When Sir Peter & Rupert were asked what they'd like to do with Ansett, they said Roger it!
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Neither of those is correct according to my dad, who is rarely wrong in such matters.
He told me years ago the terminology actually dates back to the early thirties.
Apparently, as was the done thing back then (and still is today)the trainee/s would be sent on menial tasks, deliveries, pickups that sort of thing.
Anyway - Aviation and it's related terminology was still in it's infancy, as was ATC technology - thus the transmit buttons on the radio sets were sometimes prone to sticking in the on position.
The story goes that there was some confusion between the pilot of an incoming Sopwith and the tower in what was back then a small town airstrip (Now LAX). The pilot was asking for clearance to land just as the guys in the tower had drawn straws to see which trainee ATC'er would go and pick up the pizza from Dino's Pizzeria. The chap with the shortest straw was a guy called Roger.
After asking for clearance and awaiting a response, the pilot heard the now internationally renowned terminology "Roger Will Go" - and the rest is history.
Of course it's been slightly abbreviated since then.
But that's how it happened.
He told me years ago the terminology actually dates back to the early thirties.
Apparently, as was the done thing back then (and still is today)the trainee/s would be sent on menial tasks, deliveries, pickups that sort of thing.
Anyway - Aviation and it's related terminology was still in it's infancy, as was ATC technology - thus the transmit buttons on the radio sets were sometimes prone to sticking in the on position.
The story goes that there was some confusion between the pilot of an incoming Sopwith and the tower in what was back then a small town airstrip (Now LAX). The pilot was asking for clearance to land just as the guys in the tower had drawn straws to see which trainee ATC'er would go and pick up the pizza from Dino's Pizzeria. The chap with the shortest straw was a guy called Roger.
After asking for clearance and awaiting a response, the pilot heard the now internationally renowned terminology "Roger Will Go" - and the rest is history.
Of course it's been slightly abbreviated since then.
But that's how it happened.
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At the risk of showing my age and very dark blue underwear; nice stories but, your history is weak. When sending and receiving semaphore signals; the receiver acknowledges the receipt of each word with both arms outstretched horizontally - the letter "R" - which was translated to CW and then voice. Although the phonetic alphabet has evolved, for non-English speakers, the use of ROGER on voice circuits stuck.
Re: ROGER, WILCO: Roger is redundant; WILCO implies that one has received the message correctly.
[ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: aspinwing ]
When sending and receiving semaphore signals; the receiver acknowledges the receipt of each word with both arms outstretched horizontally - the letter "R" - which was translated to CW and then voice. Although the phonetic alphabet has evolved, for non-English speakers, the use of ROGER on voice circuits stuck.Re: ROGER, WILCO: Roger is redundant; WILCO implies that one has received the message correctly.
[ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: aspinwing ]
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I have heard others use the word "Romeo" instead of "Roger". Perhaps these people are more in compliance with the ICAO "R" word. Let's get rid of Rogers and all become Romeos.
Or, to put it another way, do you want to be Roger-ed or Romeo-ed! I don't think I like either!
Or, to put it another way, do you want to be Roger-ed or Romeo-ed! I don't think I like either!
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Also Bob, if what you say is true (people using the word "Romeo" instead of "Received", imagine what a call to clearence delivery would sound like..."Clearence Delivery, good afternoon, Tango Juliet Juliet, for Sydney, request airways clearence, 'Romeo' Romeo.........where for arth thou......",
..........I think you get the picture.....H
[ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: Highbypass ]
..........I think you get the picture.....H
[ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: Highbypass ]
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On that site where I found those gems of info, it also said that it is a big NO NO to say Roger Roger, or Charlie Charlie, reminded me also of Flying High, which incidentally I think is one of the greatest movies ever made.... 
I was despatching a 767 in Saigon one day, it was a check flight, guy being checked was named Roger.
When it came time to start, and he called for clearance, I gave him the old Flying High, that is a Roger Roger...... There was a deadly silence in the headset, and no engines starting, so I thought oh no, raced upstairs and both pilots were laughing so much the couldn't continue for a minute or so...
Anyway after a short discussion about Flying High, they eventually controlled themselves and went, and Roger passed okay........
I was despatching a 767 in Saigon one day, it was a check flight, guy being checked was named Roger.
When it came time to start, and he called for clearance, I gave him the old Flying High, that is a Roger Roger...... There was a deadly silence in the headset, and no engines starting, so I thought oh no, raced upstairs and both pilots were laughing so much the couldn't continue for a minute or so...
Anyway after a short discussion about Flying High, they eventually controlled themselves and went, and Roger passed okay........
What about those guys who used to be heard all over the Aussie airwaves - Roger Dubbo, Roger Melbourne, Roger Cairns...the whole family. Most of them have moved away, I believe, and there are only a couple left.
Sad how these big famililes can decline over time...
Sad how these big famililes can decline over time...
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HBP, the word "Romeo" has been used in the past (and still is used today) in the maritime industry phraseology to denote an "affirmative" answer to either an instruction or otherwise. The word "roger" (or "rodger" as some purists may insist - me not being one of them), has been used in Nautical terms for quite a long while (it's origins pre-date me, that is...), however on a more practical note, this has slowly been changing back to "roger", at least as far as boats go.
Another useless speck from the mine of information.
Another useless speck from the mine of information.